For Eots and Other 'Truthers'

[Annie]

What a load of garbage the writer admits to not knowing anything about building 7 but then goes on to offer his opinion anyway ,studies showed there is no wat the impact could remove the fire proofing there would be Resistance in a pancake collapse that would slow the collapse from free fall speed .no explanation of molten metal this is clearly propaganda not science

What studies, from engineers?

 

[eots]

How about some print links about Popular Mechanics falling to pieces?

go to google video unpopular mechanics 911 and listen


YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 19/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 1 ... 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 1 07:15. From: mediagrrl9 Views: 63284 ...
[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M[/ame] - 92k - 31 Jan 2007

it runs in 5 parts

www.911blogger.com
23 min 40 sec - 30-Aug-200678536575

 

[Annie]

go to google video unpopular mechanics 911 and listen


YouTube - 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 19/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 1 ... 9/11 Debate: Loose Change vs. Popular Mechanics pt. 1 07:15. From: mediagrrl9 Views: 63284 ...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVmEmJ666M - 92k - 31 Jan 2007


www.911blogger.com
23 min 40 sec - 30-Aug-200678536575

I don't want to 'listen' or 'watch' propaganda. I want written words, which I can quickly check out. Don't you?

 

[eots]

I don't want to 'listen' or 'watch' propaganda. I want written words, which I can quickly check out. Don't you?

well i could certainly post a lot of written sources if you wish
the reality is if you think logically ,and don't accept answers because they fit the story but apply basic physics to the question you will realize that the official report leaves to many unanswered questions that can scientifically be answered especially with full discloser of evidence ,which the 911 commission
as a matter of public record not did have

 

[Annie]

well i could certainly post a lot of written sources if you wish
the reality is if you think logically ,and don't accept answers because they fit the story but apply basic physics to the question you will realize that the official report leaves to many unanswered questions that can scientifically be answered especially with full discloser of evidence ,which the 911 commission
as a matter of public record not have

No I do NOT want you spamming me. I want written evidence of Popular Mechanics being proven wrong. That's the point under discussion.

 

[eots]

No I do NOT want you spamming me. I want written evidence of Popular Mechanics being proven wrong. That's the point under discussion.

then listen to the lecture by professer steven jones they are posted on google, get some BASIC physics books to cross reference with and learn the truth its that simple

 

[Annie]

then listen to the lecture by professer steven jones ther posted on google, get some BASIC physics books to cross reference with and learn the truth its that simple

No, I heard it a while ago. I'm not looking for diatribes, but facts-in writing, checkable. Why is that a problem?

 

[eots]

No, I heard it a while ago. I'm not looking for diatribes, but facts-in writing, checkable. Why is that a problem?

well its a problem because if i post it you call it spam, so i would be then required to transcribe a 2 HR lecture complete with charts and graphics
to provide all the information. really what we are left with is you with your fingers in your ears going la la la la ....i cant hear you

 

[Annie]

well its a problem because if i post it you call it spam, so i would be then required to transcribe a 2 HR lecture complete with charts and graphics
to provide all the information. really what we are left with is you with your fingers in your ears going la la la la ....i cant hear you

Not quite correct. See here we are on a 'truthers' thread. I've asked you for a written discourse that 'debunks' the Popular Science article on 9/11. The only reason you have so many deleted posts, moved threads, etc is due to the fact that you try to post links without any connection with the topic at hand.

Go for it now, you have the topic.

 

[eots]

Journal of 9/11 StudiesMore about our efforts toward this goal can be found at the website for Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice at stj911.com. Sincerely, Steven Jones and Kevin ...
www.journalof911studies.com/ - 11k




Design Claims
Worthington, Skilling, Helle & Jackson White Paper
A white paper on the structure of the Twin Towers carried out by the firm of Worthington, Skilling, Helle & Jackson contained eleven numbered points, including:

The buildings have been investigated and found to be safe in an assumed collision with a large jet airliner (Boeing 707-DC 8) traveling at 600 miles per hour. Analysis indicates that such collision would result in only local damage which could not cause collapse or substantial damage to the building and would not endanger the lives and safety of occupants not in the immediate area of impact.

--City in the Sky, p 131
Glanz and Lipton summarize the findings of the white paper:

The Vierendeel trusses would be so effective, according to the engineers' calculations, that all the columns on one side of a tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and several columns on the adjacent sides, and th tower would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind.
--City in the Sky, p 133
The Richard Roth Telegram
A telegraph from the architectural firm Richard Roth, partner at Emery Roth & Sons, was distributed to reporters on February 14, 1965. The telegraph was in response to claims by real estate baron and Lawrence Wien that the design of the Twin Towers was unsound.

THE STRUCTURAL ANALYSIS CARRIED OUT BY THE FIRM OF WORTHINGTON, SKILLING, HELLE & JACKSON IS THE MOST COMPLETE AND DETAILED OF ANY EVER MADE FOR ANY BUILDING STRUCTURE. THE PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ALONE COVER 1,200 PAGES AND INVOLVE OVER 100 DETAILED DRAWINGS.
...
4. BECAUSE OF ITS CONFIGURATION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY THAT OF A STEEL BEAM 209' DEEP, THE TOWERS ARE ACTUALLY FAR LESS DARING STRUCTURALLY THAN A CONVENTIONAL BUILDING SUCH AS THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING WERE THE SPINE OR BRACED AREA OF THE BUILDING IS FAR SMALLER IN RELATION TO ITS HEIGHT.
...
5. THE BUILDING AS DESIGNED IS SIXTEEN TIMES STIFFER THAN A CONVENTIONAL STRUCTURE. THE DESIGN CONCEPT IS SO SOUND THAT THE STRUCTURAL ENGINEER HAS BEEN ABLE TO BE ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE IN HIS DESIGN WITHOUT ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE ECONOMICS OF THE STRUCTURE. ...
--City in the Sky, p 134-6
Engineering News Record
The Engineering News Record (ENR) contained a number of articles on the design and construction of the World Trade Center. The article "How Columns Will Be Designed for 110-Story Buildings" quotes lead architect John Skilling:

"live loads on these [perimeter] columns can be increased more than 2000% before failure occurs."
--John Skilling, in Engineering News Record, 4/2/1964

Construction
9-11 Research pages on history, architecture, and construction of Twin Towers:

The Towers' History: Origins of the World Trade Center and the World's Tallest Buildings
Towers' Design Parameters: Twin Towers' Designers Anticipated Jet Impacts Like September 11th's
The Towers' Architecture: The Innovative Design of the World Trade Center Towers
Twin Towers Construction: Photographic Evidence of the Twin Towers' Construction
Destruction
On the day of 9/11, 2001, the three skyscrapers of the World Trade Center complex were totally destroyed, Structural collapse due to a combination of structural damage and fire is the reason given by official reports for the leveling of 110-story WTC 1 (the North Tower), 110-story WTC 2 (the South Tower), and 47-story WTC 7, with strong emphasis on the role of fires. That would make these the only three cases in history tall steel-framed structures collapsing mostly or entirely due to fires.


Visual Records
The attack on New York City was captured by numerous photographers and videographers, in many cases at great personal risk. Of the five major events -- the two jetliner impacts and total destruction of the three skyscrapers -- all but the first were recorded by numerous photographs and videos.

WTC Attack Photos: Surviving Photographic Evidence of the World Trade Center Attack
9-11 Research
World Trade Center
Aman Zafar
World Trade Center Attack Memories and Photographs
Richard Lethin
Seeing the Horror, Part II
Peter Turnley, Bill Biggart, David Turnley, Chip East, Aris Economopoulos
Oral Histories
An extensive body of evidence consisting of statements by 503 firefighters, paramedics, and emergency medical technicians who witnessed the events in New York City on 9/11/2001 was collected between October of 2001 and January of 2002 on the order of Thomas Von Essen, the city fire commissioner until he was succeeded by Nicholas Scoppetta in January of 2002. The New York Times sought the release of this evidence, filing a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the city, which was refusing to release the transcripts. On August 12, 2005, the Times announced that it would publish the transcripts of the "oral histories" and promptly did so.

Full set of transcripts in PDF format
Partial set of transcripts in text format
Remains
The destruction of the World Trade Center left a debris field covering the 16-acre site of the Center and extending several hundred feet beyond in all directions.


Visual Records

High-resolution photograph of Ground Zero from 3,300 feet above
NOAA
The Anonymous Photographer collection
Photographs by Lane Johnsom of WTC remains at JFK hanger
Ground Zero: Photographic Evidence of the Twin Towers' Remains
9-11 Research
Scientific Reports
Data on the nature and conditions of the remains of the World Trade Center were gathered by a variety of agencies, including the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), and National Oceanic and Aeronautics Administration (NOAA).

Images of the World Trade Center Site Show Thermal Hot Spots on September 16 and 23, 2001.
USGS
An Initial Microstructural Analysis of A36 Steel from WTC Building 7
JOM
Appendix C: Limited Metallurgical Examination
ASCE/FEMA
Characterization of the Dust/Smoke Aerosol that Settled East of the World Trade Center (WTC) in Lower Manhattan after the Collapse of the WTC 11 September 2001
EHP
The DELTA Group: World Trade Center Data
UCDavis

 

[Annie]

Again EOTS, it was a specific request. I read through much, if not all that crud a few years ago. YOU claimed that the Popular Mechanics article was proven wrong, by experts. I'm still waiting...

 

[eots]

Again EOTS, it was a specific request. I read through much, if not all that crud a few years ago. YOU claimed that the Popular Mechanics article was proven wrong, by experts. I'm still waiting...

why are you so afraid of learning the truth ? the popular mechanics article is clearly refuted in the papers on this site ,its not a matter of presenting sound information and science ,its just a game of denial the door is open ,if and when you ready to face the truth and all that goes with it

Popular Mechanics on 911 debunked

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Popular Mechanics debunking Loose Change (supported by Alex Jones)
Now Popular Mechanics is being debunked.
Debunking Popular Mechanics' 9/11 Lies

Nepotism, bias, shoddy research and agenda-driven politics
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | August 10 2006

It comes as no surprise that Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Corporation. As fictionalized in Orson Welles' acclaimed film Citizen Kane, William Randolph Hearst wrote the book on cronyism and yellow journalism and Popular Mechanics hasn't bucked that tradition.

The magazine is a cheerleader for the sophistication of advanced weaponry and new technology used by police in areas such as crowd control and 'anti-terror' operation. A hefty chunk of its advertising revenue relies on the military and defense contractors.

Since the invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and in the future Iran all cite 9/11 as a pretext, what motivation does the magazine have to conduct a balanced investigation and risk upsetting its most coveted clientele?

Popular Mechanics' March 2005 front cover story was entitled 'Debunking 9/11 Lies' and has since become the bellwether reference point for all proponents of the official 9/11 fairytale.

Following the publication of the article and its exaltation by the mainstream media as ......the final nail in the coffin for 9/11 conspiracy theories, .....it was revealed that senior researcher on the piece Benjamin Chertoff is the cousin of Michael Chertoff, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

This means that Benjamin Chertoff was hired to write an article that would receive nationwide attention, about the veracity of the government's explanation of an event that led directly to the creation of Homeland Security, a body that his own cousin now heads.

This is unparalleled nepotism and completely dissolves the credibility of the article before one has even turned the first page. The arguments presented in the article have been widely debunked by the 9/11 truth community as an example of a straw man hatchet job - whereby false arguments are erected, attributed to 9/11 skeptics, and then shot down.

One of the most glaring errors in the Popular Mechanics hit piece appears in the 'Intercepts Not Routine' section where it is claimed that, "In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999."

As Jim Hoffman points out in his excellent rebuttal, "This bold assertion flies in the face of a published report of scramble frequencies that quotes the same Maj. Douglas Martin that is one of PM's cited experts!"
"From Sept. 11 to June, NORAD scrambled jets or diverted combat air patrols 462 times, almost seven times as often as the 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001, Martin said."

The article also makes no mention whatsoever of the numerous war games scheduled for the morning of 9/11 which confused air defense personnel as to the true nature of the attack as it unfolded, as is documented by the recent release of the NORAD tapes.

A section on the collapse of the World Trade Center fails to address firefighters and other individuals who reported numerous explosions before the towers fell, squibs of debris seen shooting out of the towers well below the collapse point, and the fact that the towers fell only slightly slower than absolute free fall.

The article was released before analysis conducted by BYU physics Professor Steven Jones discovered traces of thermite in steel samples taken from the World Trade Center.
"Using advanced techniques we're finding out what's in these samples - we're finding iron, sulphur, potassium and manganese - these are characteristic of a variation of thermite which is used to cut through steel very rapidly, it's called thermate," said Professor Jones.

The article regurgitates pancake and truss theories yet fails to acknowledge the comments of WTC construction manager Frank DeMartini (below) who before 9/11 stated that the buildings were designed to take multiple airliner impacts and not collapse.
We liberated Afghanistan from the murderous rule of the Taliban, our attackers' proud hosts. We chased Al Qaeda around the globe," barks McCain.

Afghanistan is now a failed narco-state run by tribal warlords and ex-Taliban kingpins, nowhere outside of Kabul is secure, malnutrition amongst children is the highest in the world outside Africa, and opium production is at record levels. Bellicose statements about chasing Al-Qaeda around the globe are somewhat contradicted by the fact that Al-Qaeda-Iraq links were proven to be fraudulent and outgoing CIA director AB “Buzzy” Krongard told the London Times that Bin Laden should stay free. Couple this with President Bush's view on Bin Laden - "I truly am not that concerned about him," and McCain's rhetoric falls flat on its face.

McCain also uses the callous tactic of saying that questioning the government's version of 9/11 insults the victims and this is also parroted in the Popular Mechanics magazine piece.
Let's hear what Bill Doyle, representative of the largest group of 9/11 family members has to say on this subject.

"If you want to believe what they want to snow you under on like the 9/11 Commission - that's a total fallacy," said Doyle.
"It looks like there was a conspiracy behind 9/11 if you really look at all the facts - a lot of families now feel the same way."

Doyle said that half of the family members - relatives of the 9/11 victims - he represents thought that the US government was complicit in 9/11.
Despite the efforts of Popular Mechanics to whitewash government complicity in 9/11 via a front page feature story and a new book, recent polls clearly show an increasing trend towards a rejection of the official version of events.
Popular Mechanics are sure to make a tidy sum of money from their latest publication, but their credibility is certain to dwindle in light of the fact that they are willingly acting as collaborators by aiding the cover-up of a crime that resulted in the deaths of nearly 3,000 Americans on 9/11 and untold more to come as a result of how the attack changed US foreign policy


Debunking Popular Mechanics' 9/11 Lies

 

[Annie]

eots, I don't know if you are deluded or incapable of reading. This is nothing other than a diatribe about the perceived ignoring of truthers rants. There is no attempt to debate the engineering or science aspects that were addressed in the Popular Mechanics article.

As for being 'afraid' of reading, I've mentioned to you several times now, that I've read volumes from those sites, I spent most of 2003 doing so. Now how about you check out some other arenas?

 

[eots]

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

 

[eots]

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 ...This website provides responsible criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report by senior ... But as some of us sat down to read it, the errors and omissions ...
patriotsquestion911.com/ - 223k - Cached - Similar pages

 

[eots]

the tin foil hat crew

Louis Freeh – Director of the FBI, 1993 - 2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in the United States Army JAG Corps Reserve

Essay An Incomplete Investigation - Why did the 9/11 Commission ignore "Able Danger"? Wall Street Journal 11/17/05: "Even the most junior investigator would immediately know that the name and photo ID of Atta in 2000 is precisely the kind of tactical intelligence the FBI has many times employed to prevent attacks and arrest terrorists. Yet the 9/11 Commission inexplicably concluded that it "was not historically significant." This astounding conclusion--in combination with the failure to investigate Able Danger and incorporate it into its findings--raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself. … No wonder the 9/11 families were outraged by these revelations and called for a "new" commission to investigate

http://www.opin

Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984. Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence. 32-year Army career.

Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?" http://www.und


Bio: http://www.canadiansub.com/Board

CAN SOMEBODY QUE THE TWILIGHT ZONE MUSIC ALREADY


Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart). Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.



Article 7/10/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official story of 9/11 - calling it ‘the dog that doesn't hunt.’ ‘I'm astounded that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,’ he said." http://www.knowledgedriven


Bio: http://www.firstprinciplespress.org

PROBABLY A COMMIE

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech).

Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together, prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and who’s responsible.…

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11? And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration with all roads passing through Dick Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and conspiracy to commit murder

OK SETTLE DOWN .JUST TAKE THE BLUE PILL AND ELVIS WILL BE HERE IN HIS SPACE SHIP SOON

 

[eots]

MORE WING NUTS !

Raymond L. McGovern – Former Chairman, National Intelligence Estimates, CIA, responsible for preparing the President’ Daily Brief (PDB) for Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. 27-year CIA veteran. Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer




Video 7/22/06: "I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 report is a joke. The question is: What’s being covered up? Is it gross malfeasance, gross negligence, misfeasance? … Now there are a whole bunch of unanswered questions. And the reason they’re unanswered is because this administration will not answer the questions. … I just want to reassert, what Scott [Ritter, former Major in the U.S. Marines Corps, former Chief Weapons Inspector for the United Nations Special Commission in Iraq] said and this is the bottom line for me, just as Hitler in 1933 cynically exploited the burning of the parliament building, the Reichstag, this is exactly what our President did in exploiting 9/11. The cynical way in which he played on our trauma, used it to justify attacking, making a war of aggression on a country that he knew had nothing to do with 9/11. That suffices for me, I think Scott is exactly right, that’s certainly an impeachable offense." http://video.google


William Christison – Former National Intelligence Officer and Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis. 29-year CIA veteran
Essay Stop Belittling the Theories About September 11 8/14/06: "I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe. … An airliner almost certainly did not hit The Pentagon. … The North and South Towers of the World Trade Center almost certainly did not collapse and fall to earth because hijacked aircraft hit them." http://www.dissidentvoice.org


Article 9/7/06: "David Griffin believes this all was totally an inside job - I've got to say I think that it was too. … I have since decided that....at least some elements in this US government had contributed in some way or other to causing 9/11 to happen or at least allowing it to happen. … The reason that the two towers in New York actually collapsed and fell all the way to the ground was controlled explosions rather than just being hit by two airplanes. … All of the characteristics of these demolitions show that they almost had to have been controlled explosions

YEAH BUT POPULAR MECHANICS SAID...

 

[eots]

Capt. Gregory M. Zeigler, PhD, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Intelligence Officer

Statement to this website 9/19/06: "I knew from September 18, 2001, that the official story about 9/11 was false. ... [A]nomalies poured in rapidly: the hijackers' names appearing in none of the published flight passenger lists, BBC reports of stolen identities of the alleged hijackers or the alleged hijackers being found alive, the obvious demolitions of WTC1, 2, and 7, the lack of identifiable Boeing 757 wreckage at the Pentagon ... Link to full statement


YA OKAAY MR PHD / CIA...HEY LOOK ! ITS BIGFOOT
PEOPLE CANT KEEP SECRETS MORON .IF IT WAS TRUE I WOULD KNOW



Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air Force career

Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise cause of the accident. ...

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000 human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft. On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was deliberately kept hidden from public view. …

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly not the Boeing 757 as alleged. …

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history." http://www.physics911.net
YEAH WHY DONT YOU STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW AND LEAVE THE CRASH INVESTIGATIONS TO POPULAR MECHANICS



Come on people wake up we can argue about this rep/dem stuff another day
theres a country to save right now

 

[Annie]

Don't you feel better? You were able to post all of those overnight and guess what? They get to stand, flood posting or not! You got your forum now.

Please note however, you still have nothing but opinions and remarks taken immediately after 9/11. No science/engineering 'debunking the engineering reports of Purdue, what Manu cited, or Popular Mechanics'.

A 'word or two' about Able Danger. Welton never seemed to bring it out enough to get widespread reading. The 9/11 Commission pretty much ended that. I agree that there might be something there, but it was not the government/CIA participated in 9/11. Quite the contrary, it was the possibility that the CIA/FBI were on a collision course of not sharing information that could and may have opened the window those planes flew threw. For POWER/TURF reasons, not cognizantly to hurt the people. They were wrong if this happened, just as now some of our politicians are having a POWER/TURF feud at a political level.

 

[Bern80]

This is very simple eots. If you want us to allow for the idea that there was a cover up of some type, then it is only fair that allow for the fact that there wasnt one. When you take away the events of 9/11 it is very easy to see people's agendas. I watched your YouTube link, and half the loose hange arfuments were the administration this and the administration that. This glaringly revealed their agenda. You say that it is Kathianne, myself and others that are not interested in the truth, yet it is painfully obvious that it is the other way around. If becomes blatently obvious that this was a cover up than I will except that. It isnt like I'm some big fanboy of the Federal government.

The question is can you answer the reverse question honestly yourself? Do you desperatly need to be right about this? Could you acccept it if the truth was incontravertibaly revealed that there was no cover up? Are you really as objective as you say you are? Are the conspiracy theorists on your you tube link objective? The answer to all of these questions are most likely No.

You will never find the truth if you don't find the truth about yourself first.