For discussion: Poverty is a Choice.

[pegwinn]

I think poverty, for the most part, is a choice, whether conscious or unconscious. However, I also believe there are many, many affluent people who, even when making collosal bad choices, cannot or will not ever, reach a level of poverty; they are just too wealthy. Just as there are some who, while making what seems to be all the right choices, will never become affluent. Which is why one should not make character judgements based upon level of poverty/affluence.

I'm one of seven children who made it out of poverty; I chose to be different than my parents, and my siblings chose to continue in the same lifestyle. We all had the same opportunities...........just made different choices and took different paths. I will say that taking the path of not being poor required hard work and diligence on my part, and the underlying foundation of my working hard was to NOT be dependent upon the government any more than I absolutely have to be.

First off, Congratulations on getting out. I think your observation, look above in bold, is off a bit. I think that the timing and worth of the choices are key. And character plays a huge part in the choices we make. Every once in a while the choice is all about character. How many people still live in poverty because they chose not to work for the local drug dealer? Good Post.

 

[Gunny]

First off, Congratulations on getting out. I think your observation, look above in bold, is off a bit. I think that the timing and worth of the choices are key. And character plays a huge part in the choices we make. Every once in a while the choice is all about character. How many people still live in poverty because they chose not to work for the local drug dealer? Good Post.

Three guesses on how I got myself off the street and out of trouble.

 

[dilloduck]

Not relevent. The kid will learn by experience, training, circumstances etc. The welfare mom will serve as on example. Unless the kid is imprisoned, there will be other influences, other examples. At any time he/she can choose to simply walk away. At any time he/she can choose to join the service, the merchant marine, or the circus.

There's a big difference between poverty and a lifestyle of dependency. Why do you think with all these choices available that so many choose welfare?

 

[kurtsprincess]

First off, Congratulations on getting out. I think your observation, look above in bold, is off a bit. I think that the timing and worth of the choices are key. And character plays a huge part in the choices we make. Every once in a while the choice is all about character. How many people still live in poverty because they chose not to work for the local drug dealer? Good Post.

Yes you are right on the money about choices, character, poverty and affluence!! And, thanks for coming up with a good example of making my point.

Just as there are some who, while making what seems to be all the right choices, will never become affluent.

Hopefully, making the right choice and building character will pay off at some later time in some other situation.

 

[Gunny]

Yes you are right on the money about choices, character, poverty and affluence!! And, thanks for coming up with a good example of making my point.



Hopefully, making the right choice and building character will pay off at some later time in some other situation.

I believe it will. Maybe not in cash, but it will pay off. How much does peace of mind and/or being a good person go for?

 

[pegwinn]

Three guesses on how I got myself off the street and out of trouble.

I think I know that Judge.

 

[pegwinn]

There's a big difference between poverty and a lifestyle of dependency. Why do you think with all these choices available that so many choose welfare?

Perhaps we are playing word games. I am talking about folks who live below the poverty line in the run down blighted ghettos (or trailer parks) of the world. Dependency contributes to poverty. Stupidity contributes to poverty. Laziness contributes to poverty. Etc Etc.

 

[dilloduck]

Perhaps we are playing word games. I am talking about folks who live below the poverty line in the run down blighted ghettos (or trailer parks) of the world. Dependency contributes to poverty. Stupidity contributes to poverty. Laziness contributes to poverty. Etc Etc.

Maybe so--I'm just wondering how to encourage kids to be even just responsible after all they have seen is a ghetto and TV screen. I'm not absolving them of responsibilty but I sure don't see our welfare system doing anything but helping to keep people dependent. If we just blew the whole thing up people might have a better shot at living in our capitalist society.

 

[kurtsprincess]

I believe it will. Maybe not in cash, but it will pay off. How much does peace of mind and/or being a good person go for?

For me Gunny, the payoff means every day is a good day to die.

 

[pegwinn]

Maybe so--I'm just wondering how to encourage kids to be even just responsible after all they have seen is a ghetto and TV screen. I'm not absolving them of responsibilty but I sure don't see our welfare system doing anything but helping to keep people dependent. If we just blew the whole thing up people might have a better shot at living in our capitalist society.

The way to encourage kids is to be an excellent parent or family member. The way to encourage kids is to be an excellent neighbor or teacher. Mentoring is good. The welfare system is an excellent idea if it was a hand up. A once in a lifetime safety net designed to help you get out of a hole. Because it is never ending, it is a drug that attacks your psyche. And the hardest addiction to break is the one in your mind.

 

[kurtsprincess]

Three guesses on how I got myself off the street and out of trouble.

Perhaps the same way my husband, who joined when he was 17 and is now a SGM, did?

If so, congratulations for making a good choice and I don't imagine it was your last good decision...........Gunny.

 

[dilloduck]

The way to encourage kids is to be an excellent parent or family member. The way to encourage kids is to be an excellent neighbor or teacher. Mentoring is good. The welfare system is an excellent idea if it was a hand up. A once in a lifetime safety net designed to help you get out of a hole. Because it is never ending, it is a drug that attacks your psyche. And the hardest addiction to break is the one in your mind.

true--I think we've overdosed thousands.

 

[kurtsprincess]

I was on welfare as a child and I hated it. I hated the intrusion of the government officials.......I hated standing in line like a beggar to get our food allotments.....I hated the social worker bringing hand-me-downs so we would have clothes to wear.......I hated waiting in dirty, smelly, disgusting medical clinics for a doctor's appointment.........I hated living in bug infested, cheap housing, and I hated having to work in the school cafeteria (because everyone knew only those who needed free lunches worked in the cafeteria) so .....I hated not being able to go anywhere that cost money....like the movies, or to the fair, or to a restaurant.

The only outlet I had was reading. The library was free and I felt like a kid in a candy store......I was a glutton and read everything I could get my hands on. The fact that we couldn't afford any other type of entertainment was my salvation. My mentor was knowledge........the more I knew, the better equipped I was to make the right choices.

So, for me, education was my way out.

I would be very interested in hearing from others how they made it out.

 

[pegwinn]

I would be very interested in hearing from others how they made it out.

My mom was stupid when I was little. Dad was deployed to VN and mom thought that as long as there was checks in the book.........

Long story made short we declared bankruptcy. This in the day when the court decided what you could keep and what got sold to pay the debt.

Long story made short, Dad kept mom. Mom got smart. We lived in a white trash trailer park until I joined the Marines. I got a job at 13 and paid my way for everything I got. Dad retired from the AF and worked two jobs for almost ten years to repair the damage. Mom and Dad got out of the hole by working hard and not spending much. Choices, after all.

 

[dilloduck]

I was on welfare as a child and I hated it. I hated the intrusion of the government officials.......I hated standing in line like a beggar to get our food allotments.....I hated the social worker bringing hand-me-downs so we would have clothes to wear.......I hated waiting in dirty, smelly, disgusting medical clinics for a doctor's appointment.........I hated living in bug infested, cheap housing, and I hated having to work in the school cafeteria (because everyone knew only those who needed free lunches worked in the cafeteria) so .....I hated not being able to go anywhere that cost money....like the movies, or to the fair, or to a restaurant.

The only outlet I had was reading. The library was free and I felt like a kid in a candy store......I was a glutton and read everything I could get my hands on. The fact that we couldn't afford any other type of entertainment was my salvation. My mentor was knowledge........the more I knew, the better equipped I was to make the right choices.

So, for me, education was my way out.

I would be very interested in hearing from others how they made it out.

So the system just sorta kept you alive until you found your own way out--I guess that's a plus--good job!

 

[kurtsprincess]

My mom was stupid when I was little. Dad was deployed to VN and mom thought that as long as there was checks in the book.........

Long story made short we declared bankruptcy. This in the day when the court decided what you could keep and what got sold to pay the debt.

Long story made short, Dad kept mom. Mom got smart. We lived in a white trash trailer park until I joined the Marines. I got a job at 13 and paid my way for everything I got. Dad retired from the AF and worked two jobs for almost ten years to repair the damage. Mom and Dad got out of the hole by working hard and not spending much. Choices, after all.

Sounds like everyone involved took personal responsibility, and learned something!

Great story Pegwinn. Thanks for sharing.

 

[kurtsprincess]

So the system just sorta kept you alive until you found your own way out--I guess that's a plus--good job!

Yes.........and perhaps that is the way it should be. Not enough to get comfortable and complacent....but enough to survive.


And, thanks.

 

[speederdoc]

I was born a poor black child.....

 

[Shattered]

I was born a poor black child.....

D?? Is that you??

 

[sealybobo]

Yes. Indeed.


Thoughts?

Depends on who you ask.

If you ask responsible people who are doing their best in this world to improve themselves, then yes.

If you ask the people who want to sponge off the government, waiting for their handouts while changing "woe is me" and "who will help us", then no.

Just a little side note. Back in the late 1990's, the fast food chain, Hardee's, closed their restaurants here in Memphis because they couldn't get anyone to work. They were offering between $6.00 and $6.50 an hour to start. Seems that most of the people who applied either told them they wanted more and wouldn't work for a penny less, or that they could make more off welfare.

What will you say to the lower middle class blue collar workers who's jobs went overseas and they voted for trump if in 4 years they're still not doing well as a hole?

Ultimately I believe nothing. Except of course this advice you are giving them. Besides that those trump supporters are going to be disappointed. They're going to have to develop a skill and maybe even have to go back to school or they are fucked.