For 2008, do we want a moderate or conservative Republican leader?

[Annie]

Who says I'm talking about the extremists in Congress? (Although for the most part, they aren't of the fringe like the Rick Santorums) I'm talking about real, grass roots Republicans.

Why do you think that the party is all extremists?

I'm not presuming to say where you are going. I asked for links or narrative of where you are going.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

And, if you support Democratic values, how do you justify seeing more than half the country as "the enemy"?

I guess it's the expected reaction to liberals thinking america deserved 9/11, and is an evil empire that needs to reverse course in hopes the world will like us better. That's a fatal level of low self esteem brought to a national sphere. Keep your shame, we're not interested.

 

[5stringJeff]

I'm just wondering when Republicans went from being the moderates to being the extremists. Kind of an interesting evolution to watch, to tell the truth. And, if you support Democratic values, how do you justify seeing more than half the country as "the enemy"?

I'd also point out that the majority of the Republican party itself is made up of moderates like Arlen Spector, Chris Shays, Christie Whitman, George Pataki, etc.

Please show a link to show that most Republicans are moderate. And no, it can't start with democraticunderground.com.

 

[jillian]

I'm not presuming to say where you are going. I asked for links or narrative of where you are going.

And I asked you to state why you believe that extremists comprise the majority of the party.

I guess it's the expected reaction to liberals thinking america deserved 9/11, and is an evil empire that needs to reverse course in hopes the world will like us better. That's a fatal level of low self esteem brought to a national sphere. Keep your shame, we're not interested.

Who thinks America deserved 9/11?

Please show a link to show that most Republicans are moderate. And no, it can't start with democraticunderground.com.

I wouldn't know what democraticunderground.com had to say. But my question was a pretty basic one. The Republican party has traditionally been about fiscal restraint and small government. That isn't the hallmark of the current administration and those who take that pov in Congress have been largely ignored as of late. So what makes you think that just because the extremists make the most noise, that they are anything but an extremist minority? Haven't you noticed that the extremists have been getting slapped down as of late and the poll numbers are pretty abysmal? There's a reason for that...which is that the extremists are not the main stream.

 

[Dr Grump]

I guess it's the expected reaction to liberals thinking america deserved 9/11, and is an evil empire that needs to reverse course in hopes the world will like us better. That's a fatal level of low self esteem brought to a national sphere. Keep your shame, we're not interested.

Holy cow! Liberals are saying America deserved 9/11? What a bunch of a holes! You gotta link to that?

 

[musicman]

I wouldn't know what democraticunderground.com had to say. But my question was a pretty basic one. The Republican party has traditionally been about fiscal restraint and small government. That isn't the hallmark of the current administration and those who take that pov in Congress have been largely ignored as of late. So what makes you think that just because the extremists make the most noise, that they are anything but an extremist minority? Haven't you noticed that the extremists have been getting slapped down as of late and the poll numbers are pretty abysmal? There's a reason for that...which is that the extremists are not the main stream.

Actually, I have a problem with your usage of the term, "extremist". This could only apply to the persons you mentioned in that they are extremely poor excuses for conservatives. There is nothing tepid about true conservatism, as these assholes will learn - to their cost.

 

[insein]

Holy cow! Liberals are saying America deserved 9/11? What a bunch of a holes! You gotta link to that?

this for starters.

http://www.counterpunch.org/jensen02142005.html

 

[insein]

BTW, what i want in a candidate is nothing left of Newt.

 

[menewa]

Conservative the whole way. Liberalism is in need a of complete and utter purge from the federal government. I say once the enemy is on the run FINISH HIM!!! The libs are on their last legs and it's way past time to cut those out. You know the only thing that is down the middle of the road? A YELLOW STRIPE!!!
Guiliani is better than McCain ( A Democrat in wolf's clothing) but either is unacceptable. A conservative will out. We shall see through the next couple of years. But no middlers, thank you and have a pleasant tommorow.

What a great idea! A one party government. Then we can be like China or the former Soviet Union.


Fuck debate, fascism is great!

 

[Redhots]

Fuck debate, fascism is great!

That would make a nice bumpersticker if nothing else.

 

[jillian]

Actually, I have a problem with your usage of the term, "extremist". This could only apply to the persons you mentioned in that they are extremely poor excuses for conservatives. There is nothing tepid about true conservatism, as these assholes will learn - to their cost.

To me, conservatism, true conservatism, is about restraint.... fiscal restraint and governmental restraint. It isn't about large government when it comes to interjecting itself into people's personal/religious lives or about running up the deficit and spending money like a bunch of drunken sailors. As it stands, the government is way larger than it was six years ago in ways that touch our lives personally, yet smaller when it comes to things like corporate oversight. That's not the conservative way of doing things. It has nothing to do with pursuing a religious right agenda to satisfy the fringe (albeit money-raising) elements of the party.

 

[Redhots]

Nice post Jillian, I couldn't agree more.

Though it seems to me that improved corporate oversight seems to be more a virtue of the party out of power than anything.

The party in power is in bed with big business.

The party out of power, in a bid to regain power, campagins on the other partys corruption and makes promises to crack down on corporate infullence in politics.

The party out of power gains power, passes new laws and/or strengthens existing laws doing so. After being in power for a few years and after they're given some free drinks and a bit of sweet talking they're convinced that megacorps aren't so bad and hop in the sack with them.

Then the cycle repeats itself.

 

[jillian]

Nice post Jillian, I couldn't agree more.

Though it seems to me that improved corporate oversight seems to be more a virtue of the party out of power than anything.

The party in power is in bed with big business.

The party out of power, in a bid to regain power, campagins on the other partys corruption and makes promises to crack down on corporate infullence in politics.

The party out of power gains power, passes new laws and/or strengthens existing laws doing so. After being in power for a few years and after they're given some free drinks and a bit of sweet talking they're convinced that megacorps aren't so bad and hop in the sack with them.

Then the cycle repeats itself.

Thank you. But I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. One of the things that people tend to complain about is that Democrats are (in their opinion) not business-friendly because of environmental regulatrions and things like OSHA.... Interesting to me is that, based upon what I've read, Nixon may have been one of our biggest environmentalists. Today's Republicans seem to have forgotten that and see environmentalism as a tree-hugging, liberal type thing.

 

[Redhots]

Well there is always the matter of scale to consider too.

Take the current GOP scandals which deal with tens of millions of dollars and compare them to past Democratic scandals like the House Post Office scandal which was in the tens of thousands (IIRC).

I just don't think its fair to say either party has monopoly on this market.

That and there is an inherent truth to what I said, even if it was a bit cynical. Obviously if you don't have the political clout to pass legeslation lobbist are less likely to approach you with bribes & kickbacks.

I'll add real quickly that I do find it impressive that in 12 years the Republicans managed to reach a level of corruption that took the Democrats 40 years.

 

[musicman]

To me, conservatism, true conservatism, is about restraint.... fiscal restraint and governmental restraint.

So far, so good...

It isn't about large government when it comes to interjecting itself into people's personal/religious lives

OK - I'm mystified. Please detail some of these interjections.

or about running up the deficit and spending money like a bunch of drunken sailors. As it stands, the government is way larger than it was six years ago in ways that touch our lives personally, yet smaller when it comes to things like corporate oversight. That's not the conservative way of doing things.

If you're saying that the President and his ilk are poor conservatives, you'll get no argument from me. However, we must remember that we're involved in this thing....let's see, now - what is it? Oh, yeah - a long, arduous war against a murderous tyranny which transcends borders and nations, and will stop at nothing short of total world domination. So, some - some, mind you - of that spending is justified.

Worth noting, as well, is that one of the articles of the liberal faith - that corporations are inherently evil - is not held by conservatives.

It has nothing to do with pursuing a religious right agenda to satisfy the fringe (albeit money-raising) elements of the party.

Please provide details of how the Bush administration is implementing the religious right agenda.

 

[Dr Grump]

a long, arduous war against a murderous tyranny which transcends borders and nations, and will stop at nothing short of total world domination.

Please provide details of how Islam and/or Iraq are after world domination..

 

[musicman]

Please provide details of how Islam and/or Iraq are after world domination..

My God - I believe you are serious. You are the most willfully blind individual it has ever been my pressure to encounter. Can you deduce nothing of Islam's intent by observing it's followers behavior in Europe - at American universities - or toward the utterance of as much as a discouraging word spoken, in print, or in CARTOONS?

Are you aware that a convert to Christianity recently faced the DEATH PENALTY? Can you get your mind around the fact that a theocracy must, by it's definition, be tyrannical? Or that this particular theocratic tyranny considers all unbelievers to be infidels - to be enslaved or murdered - IN ACCORDANCE WITH IT'S SCRIPTURES?

They are powerful, fanatical, and will brook NO DISSENT. How is Islam after world domination? Add it up, man.

 

[musicman]

www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30806

 

[Dr Grump]

Can you deduce nothing of Islam's intent by observing it's followers behavior in Europe - at American universities - or toward the utterance of as much as a discouraging word spoken, in print, or in CARTOONS?

And how many countries have Muslim's invaded? How far have they got in Europe? How much sway do they have politically?

 

[musicman]

It's OK, Dr. Grump - go back to sleep. Everything's fine.