Food for though: What is democracy? What is freedom?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by 777, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. 777
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    777 Member

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    I am not a democrat, republican or even an independent. I, as a foreigner, am simply an observer of political life in the United States and other countries. I have no ax to grind and I am not motivated by left or right wing conspiracies. I am not without opinions, though.

    A statement by President Bush compelled me to write.

    Surely many of you by now have heard him say “They (the terrorists) hate us for our freedom”. This argument is weak at best. Canada and Sweden, just to name a few, are free, democratic countries. No one is attacking them for their freedom. I think it is time for this Administration to start looking at the real causes of the hatred that some countries express towards the USA. If the argument is “America is a superpower” it doesn’t either automatically mean that America should be hated. It is what is done with that power that may cause the intifadas against the USA and its interests.

    I am also perplexed about a person in America being called unpatriotic if he criticizes the current administration. In a healthy democracy criticism should not be construed as unpatriotic unless it is totally off the mark and false. Even the leader is a human and makes mistakes and may not always know what is the best for his country. Nor being a leader makes one above being corrupt or immoral in one’s actions. Power breeds corruption in too many cases. The times become scary when the citizens follow the leader blindly. Therein is lost the soul of democracy.

    I would like to hear other people’s points on concepts of democracy and the causes of hatred and distrust that America is facing around the world. I would like honest, open-minded discussion on the subject.
     
  2. HGROKIT
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    HGROKIT Active Member

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    As a foreigner and given the tone of your thread, I for one do not care what you think. Where are you from? I doubt you'll answer. It is easy to stand off and fire missles.


    I am sorry for your handicap.


    What you would like and what you are going to get are two different things. You come on here bashing a country you apparently know nothing about and want us to provide you points for your argument. You bring nothing here to back up your claim and hold it out to be some kind of fact - when in reality it appears your uninformed opinion.

    Had you come on here with a different attitude, I am sure you would have found some discussion, but predict Gnashing of teeth against you.
     
  3. menewa
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    menewa Member

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    You failed to dispute one item 777 mentioned.
     
  4. 777
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    777 Member

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    I am from Finland. I particularly wrote at the beginning that I am not without opinions. I did not write my piece pretending it to be a factual piece.

    President Bush's statement, however, is illogical (they hate us for our freedom). Finland is a free, democratic country, too, and is not a terrorist target. I would like you all to look deeper into the souls of the current and past administrations. The truth is not as simple as America solely
    being hated for its freedom. So then, what is the bigger truth?

    You stated that as a foreigner I know nothing of this country.

    I came here when I was 19. I went to college here and married an American. I am in my 30s. I know more of this country than you would like to imagine.

    Lastly, my thread is not about firing missiles. It's about HONEST and OPEN MINDED discussion about the state of the affairs.

    Thank you
     
  5. jimnyc
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    jimnyc ...

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    Welcome to the board.

    Maybe it's because the USA doesn't just 'live' a free life like Canada, Sweden and Finland, but they ALSO fight for the rights of others to enjoy the same. Freedom comes with a cost and Americans are aware of that. And even still our country is willing to pay that price so that other countries may enjoy the same freedoms.

    Someone isn't labeled unpatriotic simply because they voice dissention with the current administration. Those labeled unpatriotic or un-American are usually those who go over the edge and put soldiers lives or American citizens lives in danger. Do you have specific examples you would care to cite to make this discussion clearer?

    Yes, media. Most that claim to 'hate' America are uninformed and simply follow the crowd and believe the crap that the media spews forth.

    You'll find no stronger nation that is willing to go to such lengths to protect and help other countries. And for that we are hated. Go figure.
     
  6. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    Tyrants hate the very sight of freedom. They don't want their people exposed to it, because they will want it. They'd rather snuff out freedom, so their people don't pine for it. It's simple really.
     
  7. rtwngAvngr
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    rtwngAvngr Guest

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    The current leaders in the muslim world got there through brutality. The thought of having to keep their power through good public service, sound economic policy, and democratic elections, scares the bejesus out of them, or the bemohammed, whatever the case may be. This is simple too.
     
  8. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    I don't see how our past transgressions could have incited soo much hatred. America has made many mistakes in our short history but we have given back to the world much more than we have taken.

    You answered your own question on this one. Many of the "Anti-American" labels are used for people that make wild allegations like Bush is hitler or Bush lied about everything then fail to state an actual lie that he has made. They simply work to drive a wedge between the American people thus further dividing the country. Dissent and difference of opinion are one thing when a valid arguement is raised. Lies and intentional deceit upon the American people that harm the country earn them the UnAmerican label.



    Very true. Many of the things Bush has done have not been to my liking. Illegal immigrant situation. MEdicare entitlement giveaway. On a whole though i agree with my presidentmore often than not. Those that follow him blindly are as ignorant as those that hate him blindly.

    I feel alot of it has to do with the Liberal Media's Agenda to return Communism to world power. They would like nothing better than to have America become a welfare state giving all of our hard earned money to the poor thus crushing the American Spirit and falling in line with the EU. Many in Europe further this sentiment as it makes them look superior if America Fails.

    The hatred from Islamic countries is obvious. Islam promotes at its fundamentalist roots to destroy all those who do not accept Ala as the one true good. Some merely think of this as a passage of the Koran. Others (terrorists, totalitarian regimes, etc) follow these inscriptions to the letter and have taken their beliefs to a more physical level. America is merely the biggest guy on the block right now. The USSR was the target when they existed due to their lack of Belief in "the one true god". Now the US is hated for our "lack of belief". We are merely the biggest guys on the block. If Sweden or Finland were the Superpowers of the world, they would be the targets for not promoting Islam.

    It all comes back to being on top. When your on top, everyone wants to knock ya off. Its human nature to e jealous of someone elses success. However, it defines a person based on the actions they make after seeing that success. Do they live to destroy someones success or do they strive to achieve the same kind of success through hard work of their own? Thus defines a persons soul as well as a nation's.
     
  9. Zhukov
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    Zhukov VIP Member

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    That's because someone else is in the way.

    Islamists might say, 'wait your turn.'
     
  10. dilloduck
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    dilloduck Diamond Member

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    Wecome to the board!
    The number of people who truly hate Americans is unknown. For all we know, there may be more people who like Americans than hate them. I wouldn't expect another country to have monthly "we love americans " parade however if they did they would go unnoticed. The media loves to bring the Anti-American protests to the forefront because it is NOT THE NORM. Average things are not news. The more havoc the media can create the more people pay attention TO THE MEDIA for information. Then the media has the power to sway people with thier integrity (or lack there of). The truth has often been lost in the method that the media uses to inform.

    You have lived in a foreign country. Was all the news that you received there the truth or at times did you feel as if reality got bent or even broken? Foriegners are also subject to the biases of thier own media. I am sure that foreigners have many different reasons for not liking the policies of whatever administration is currently in power. Even we as Americans do !

    If you would do a poll and ask people the first country that came to mind when the word "Freedom" was mentioned, which country would be named most often? The United States represents and symbolizes freedom more than any other democracy. We therefore get the "hate" from those who would like to take it and those whose existence is threatened by it. Don't feel left out. They would like to take freedom away from every democracy in the world. Yours too !
     

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