Focus on Ron Paul's words.

[KGB]

Ron Paul is breathtakingly - and actually dangerously - naive about defense.

actually, Ron Paul's words are consistently being taken out of context. He is for a Fortress America concept to defense. Little overseas bases, bring the troops home, secure the borders.

From his website:

"Instead of securing our borders, we’ve been planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression. Within a few short years, we turned Iraq into the world’s leading breeding ground for terrorists. Our military is spread thin all across the planet, yet we remain involved in dangerous power plays that unnecessarily put the lives of our soldiers at risk. And we brazenly squandered the wealth of our nation as if there were no tomorrow."

For much of our history, the US has been isolationist in its foreign policy. The Cold War necessitated us becoming a superpower, but it is a role in which we traditionally have been uncomfortable with. He is basically returning us to our traditional mindset. This isn't a bad approach given that....

 

[KGB]

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

HOw is it a mistake? If we were already there, that is what we needed to do, and from the very beginning. We should have never messed around with Iraq.

C'mon. The occupation of Japan lasted seven years. The occupation of Germany lasted five years. These were successful occupations. The occupation of Afghanistan has lasted over nine years. It has not been successful.

we still have a substantial military force in both Japan & Germany decades after WW2.....

 

[Dot Com]

poor baby... can't prove a negative. i pointed out that he has not supported any war in his lifetime.

that should be easy to prove. it's not a negative. find a statement where he said WWII was justified.

I did and I posted it. Shall I post it again? If I do, will you at least view it before snarking off?

JS: Is war ever justifiable?

RP: Sure. If you're attacked, you have a right and an obligation to defend (your) country. I do not believe there is ever a moral justification to start the war.

JS: So in World War II, we were justified?

RP: Sure.

JS: How about going into Afghanistan after Sept. 11?

RP: I voted for that authority to go after those responsible for 9/11.

JS: The Korean War?

RP: Totally unjustified.

JS: Kosovo?

RP: Absolutely unjustified.

JS: Vietnam?

RP: A horror.

JS: The first Iraq war? Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. He might have invaded the next country, and the next.

RP: I bet Israel would have done something about it, and I bet Saudi Arabia maybe would have talked to Israel. I think if it would have been left to the region, they might have taken care of Saddam Hussein in 1990 and we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Ron Paul On War

mazel tov.

although, he is right about israel in 1991. if daddy bush hadn't tied israel's hands after the SCUD attacks, maybe saddam *would* have been out sooner... although israel generally isn't in the business of deposing the heads of government.

assassination isn't in their statecraft, tool box? I beg to differ.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'm glad your moronic ass is scared.

It is scary that our population is STILL fooled so easily by our politicians fearmongering.

I can't keep track of all the things I'm supposed to be scared to death of muslims/global warming/some banks failing/a car company failing/credit ratings/the other team getting elected/gays/budget deadlines/etc.

I'm sure I missed dozens.

I'm sure you missed Cheney on the View today. They had a good conversation. He was sitting among his biggest detractors.

An idiot on one side gabbing with idiots on the other side, that no longer entertains me.

 

[flacaltenn]

Ever since Clinton bombed 3 Muslim countries in one day (Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq) we have lost all moral justification for being an International Police Force.. No dig to Clinton of course (even tho we ended up paying for the Sudanese aspirin factory), because our 12 years of locking the Iraqis into their country with a ruthless dictator and starving them and BOMBING THEM DAILY was a BIPARTISIAN effort.

That failed policy of Iraqi containment explains the insurrection that we ran into when we occupied Iraq. A country that lost over 150,000 people to medical and food shortages for 12 years and survived almost daily bombing is NOT LIKELY to welcome you with flowers.

Anyone who's NOT interested in why bin Laden said he attacked us is a mental midget. The top 2 reasons were are bases in Saudi (their holiest of lands) to support the containment and the plight of the Iraqi people which was recognized INTERNATIONALLY as a legitimate gripe. ((BTW lefties -- Bush's invasion of Iraq FIXED both those gripes AND the failed containment))

Ron Paul is simply stating the obvious folly of our foreign policy leading UP to the attacks. He is extremely brave to take the abuse from the party trogs who believe Santorum. And his reasoning is clear and logical.. I think he would actually change the tone of foreign criticism against the USA. As opposed to continuing throwing our weight around and using Cruise Missiles as diplomacy..

 

[flacaltenn]

Guess WillowTree and Gramps will have a hard time refuting those historical truths eh??

We're STILL in a position to bomb 3 or even 4 Arab/Muslim countries a day if we get a whim..

That's awkward for a country that's suppose to be using it's military to create World Peace..

 

[WatertheTree]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

I agree 100%. To think that we can toss our weight around the world, bombing and killing any country that doesnt just surrender resources and not have people see to fight back any way they can (suicide bombings) is just plain insane.

Why is it that since the end of ww2 we have had constant perpetual war, and always AGIANST A THIRD WORLD POPULATION THAT CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES??? Make no mistake, we are the terrorists of the world. We do the killing. We do the stealing. We torture. We maintain starvation in poor countries. We install dictators.

Back when America had leadership, and not just profit margins, we were warned of this. Eisenhower constructed the military industrial complex out of neccisity to win WW2, and his last speech comprised totally of warning the population of the dangers.

So far as I am concerned Ron Paul is America's last chance. Continuing down the road we have been on for another 20 years will result in the same thing happening to us as has happened to EVERY democracy in history. It will end in a dictatorship, and we will be lucky if a great portion of our population isnt unjustly blamed and punished for it.

I really dont expect paul to win though, most historians agree that once you know your country is fucked there is little you can do to stop it.

The good news is usually once an empire falls life gets really hard, and people like the guy that started this thread find compassion for human beings through their own suffering.

 

[Zona]

This man supports business's having signs that can say "no blacks allowed". This man said if he were asked he would have voted against the civil rights act.

This man is a fucking loon.

 

[WatertheTree]

This man supports business's having signs that can say "no blacks allowed". This man said if he were asked he would have voted against the civil rights act.

This man is a fucking loon.

He doesnt support inequality, he supports the government not having the right to dictate to a business owner who they can and cannot serve.

And with regards to the civil rights act, yes he said that he would have voted agianst it, not because he doesnt think its worth having, but because it should be left to the states, not to centralized power to make decisions that impact Americans.

The only loons are people that on one hand say they like freedom and free markets and all that, but on the other want big government and socialism for business.

 

[WillowTree]

It is scary that our population is STILL fooled so easily by our politicians fearmongering.

I can't keep track of all the things I'm supposed to be scared to death of muslims/global warming/some banks failing/a car company failing/credit ratings/the other team getting elected/gays/budget deadlines/etc.

I'm sure I missed dozens.

I'm sure you missed Cheney on the View today. They had a good conversation. He was sitting among his biggest detractors.

An idiot on one side gabbing with idiots on the other side, that no longer entertains me.

then stay stupid it's no skin off my teeth.

 

[Dot Com]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

I agree 100%. To think that we can toss our weight around the world, bombing and killing any country that doesnt just surrender resources and not have people see to fight back any way they can (suicide bombings) is just plain insane.

Why is it that since the end of ww2 we have had constant perpetual war, and always AGIANST A THIRD WORLD POPULATION THAT CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES??? Make no mistake, we are the terrorists of the world. We do the killing. We do the stealing. We torture. We maintain starvation in poor countries. We install dictators.

Back when America had leadership, and not just profit margins, we were warned of this. Eisenhower constructed the military industrial complex out of neccisity to win WW2, and his last speech comprised totally of warning the population of the dangers.

So far as I am concerned Ron Paul is America's last chance. Continuing down the road we have been on for another 20 years will result in the same thing happening to us as has happened to EVERY democracy in history. It will end in a dictatorship, and we will be lucky if a great portion of our population isnt unjustly blamed and punished for it.

I really dont expect paul to win though, most historians agree that once you know your country is fucked there is little you can do to stop it.

The good news is usually once an empire falls life gets really hard, and people like the guy that started this thread find compassion for human beings through their own suffering.

"Constant war"? Good point "War corporatism" is a good term:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO_8RwXMMwI]What Barry Says - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Sactowndog]

actually, i've long since stopped bothering to try to educate paul-ites. you're uneducable because like most zealots, you ignore fact in favor of cult of personality.

there has never been a war in his lifetime that ron paul thought was justified.

prove otherwise.

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

Heck I know a number of Obama supporters who would vote for Paul but wouldn't vote for any other Republican.

 

[WillowTree]

actually, i've long since stopped bothering to try to educate paul-ites. you're uneducable because like most zealots, you ignore fact in favor of cult of personality.

there has never been a war in his lifetime that ron paul thought was justified.

prove otherwise.

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

Heck I know a number of Obama supporters who would vote for Paul but wouldn't vote for any other Republican.

that say a lot about obie supporters, but then..... we already knew that.

 

[Dot Com]

so WillowTree is for unbridled *cough* "defense" (read- "offense") spending. Glad thats settled.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Al Qaeda attacked us because of American Exceptionalism....WTF does that even mean?

Santorum thinks muslims hate us because we are so awesome LOL