Focus on Ron Paul's words.

[California Girl]

I'll post most of what RP actually said.

Ron Paul is breathtakingly - and actually dangerously - naive about defense.

You guys always say that, but I think it is just to rationalize having so much military personal all over the world.

I have seen the maps of where our bases are in the world. I may not know much about military but I doubt we need that many, plus I have a real problem with us acting like an Empire. History is very informative on what happens to countries that act like Empires.


Of course now I will get some response as to why we need all those bases... I just want to know one good reason why we still have so many in Germany.

It has nothing to do with 'rationalization' and everything to do with International Relationships. Shocking though it may be, America does not exist in a vacuum. It has allies that are critical to our mutual benefit.

As Americans, it is our responsibility to learn to think outside of our own self interest and work with other nations. Otherwise, things like WWII happen.

We do not just need to read about history, we need to understand it, and behave rationally instead of emotionally. As a nation, we often err towards emotion rather than logic. We're a passionate people. That is not a bad thing - but we do need to understand more than what we 'know'. We must factor in the 'known unknowns' and the 'unknown unknowns'. That is where I part ideological company with Libertarians. They are far too naive.

 

[Contumacious]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

Then you must be elated that Paul will do "nothing" about the 20 million that are here "until the border is secure?" Which mean he will do nothing during his term.

That is not right.

We need to build some good incinerators and fire them up. We need gas chambers pronto.

As always, Heil Hitler.

.

 

[Oddball]

Ron Paul is breathtakingly - and actually dangerously - naive about defense.

You guys always say that, but I think it is just to rationalize having so much military personal all over the world.

I have seen the maps of where our bases are in the world. I may not know much about military but I doubt we need that many, plus I have a real problem with us acting like an Empire. History is very informative on what happens to countries that act like Empires.


Of course now I will get some response as to why we need all those bases... I just want to know one good reason why we still have so many in Germany.

It has nothing to do with 'rationalization' and everything to do with International Relationships. Shocking though it may be, America does not exist in a vacuum. It has allies that are critical to our mutual benefit.

As Americans, it is our responsibility to learn to think outside of our own self interest and work with other nations. Otherwise, things like WWII happen.

WWII happened largely as a product of our meddling and intervening in WWI.

We do not just need to read about history, we need to understand it, and behave rationally instead of emotionally. As a nation, we often err towards emotion rather than logic. We're a passionate people. That is not a bad thing - but we do need to understand more than what we 'know'. We must factor in the 'known unknowns' and the 'unknown unknowns'. That is where I part ideological company with Libertarians. They are far too naive.

Damn...That paragraph has damn near as many platitudes and an Obammy speech.

 

[jillian]

How very necon of you.

Sure you're not a republican?

YOu realize Neocons are said to be converted democrats during the Reagan years?
Just messing with you, because I know Jillian isn't a republican.

She just agrees with republicans on why we should have our military all over the world and how we should engage in wars that have absolutely nothing to do with the defense of the US.

not at all...

really? i think we should have our military all over the world? no exceptions? i do love blanket statements.... especially when they're lies.

i know... it's the israel thing for you (for ron paul, too...)

too bad. *shrug*

 

[Kuros]

actually, i've long since stopped bothering to try to educate paul-ites. you're uneducable because like most zealots, you ignore fact in favor of cult of personality.

there has never been a war in his lifetime that ron paul thought was justified.

prove otherwise.

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

you're the one claiming something different from what i know to be fact.

so prove otherwise.

and no, no nerves touched. i just stated fact.

but thanks for yet another true believer technique... the palinistas do it, too... someone who tells the truth about your hero automatically "fears" them, or "hates" them or you've "touched a nerve".

no... he's just someone who's too naive to be president.... and his lack of understanding of the constitution is actually a bit offensive.... mostly because "true believer" kids like you actually listen to him.

as for obama "doubling down"... i don't think he had a lot of choice given the mess left him by baby bush. only a dolt thinks we could have just picked up our toys and gone home. that said, yes, it's time to wind down, but i think the president is already working toward that.

Either Ron Paul said that WWII wasn't justified or he didn't. I can't prove a negative. Why don't you just prove that he said it?

Personally, I think you're full of shit.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur6OHOkiDA]John Stossel with Ron Paul: Is War Ever Justifiable? - YouTube[/ame]

John Stossel: Is War ever Justifiable?

Ron Paul: Sure, if you're attacked, you have a right, and an obligation, to defend your country.

It sounds to me as if Ron Paul would have agreed with the war against Japan after Pearl Harbor (but perhaps not dropping the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki).

Where you see naive, I see principled.

 

[jillian]

poor baby... can't prove a negative. i pointed out that he has not supported any war in his lifetime.

that should be easy to prove. it's not a negative. find a statement where he said WWII was justified.

and stop making up what you *think* he believes.

a "principled" person does not claim to be opposed to earmarks while taking every earmark he can get his grubby little paws on.
a "principled" person does not claim to be for term limits while making a career out of getting a government pay check.


p.s. to the brain dead, pretend consitutionalist who thinks there can't be military action absent an act of congress, i'll direct your attention to the war powers act. you not only apparently don't understand that that act was upheld by the Court, but you can't add either.

 

[Kuros]

actually, i've long since stopped bothering to try to educate paul-ites. you're uneducable because like most zealots, you ignore fact in favor of cult of personality.

there has never been a war in his lifetime that ron paul thought was justified.

prove otherwise.

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

HOw is it a mistake? If we were already there, that is what we needed to do, and from the very beginning. We should have never messed around with Iraq.

C'mon. The occupation of Japan lasted seven years. The occupation of Germany lasted five years. These were successful occupations. The occupation of Afghanistan has lasted over nine years. It has not been successful.

 

[Kuros]

poor baby... can't prove a negative. i pointed out that he has not supported any war in his lifetime.

that should be easy to prove. it's not a negative. find a statement where he said WWII was justified.

I did and I posted it. Shall I post it again? If I do, will you at least view it before snarking off?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur6OHOkiDA]John Stossel with Ron Paul: Is War Ever Justifiable? - YouTube[/ame]

JS: Is war ever justifiable?

RP: Sure. If you're attacked, you have a right and an obligation to defend (your) country. I do not believe there is ever a moral justification to start the war.

JS: So in World War II, we were justified?

RP: Sure.

JS: How about going into Afghanistan after Sept. 11?

RP: I voted for that authority to go after those responsible for 9/11.

JS: The Korean War?

RP: Totally unjustified.

JS: Kosovo?

RP: Absolutely unjustified.

JS: Vietnam?

RP: A horror.

JS: The first Iraq war? Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. He might have invaded the next country, and the next.

RP: I bet Israel would have done something about it, and I bet Saudi Arabia maybe would have talked to Israel. I think if it would have been left to the region, they might have taken care of Saddam Hussein in 1990 and we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Ron Paul On War

 

[Oddball]

Traditionally, the proponent of an assertion has the burden of proof.

Anyway, I think we can see Ron Paul has touched a nerve. It seems Obama supporters know that the President doubling down on Afghanistan was a mistake.

HOw is it a mistake? If we were already there, that is what we needed to do, and from the very beginning. We should have never messed around with Iraq.

C'mon. The occupation of Japan lasted seven years. The occupation of Germany lasted five years. These were successful occupations. The occupation of Afghanistan has lasted over nine years. It has not been successful.

The occupations of Germany and Japan are still ongoing....The occupying forces never left.

That's Dr. Paul's entire point.

 

[jillian]

poor baby... can't prove a negative. i pointed out that he has not supported any war in his lifetime.

that should be easy to prove. it's not a negative. find a statement where he said WWII was justified.

I did and I posted it. Shall I post it again? If I do, will you at least view it before snarking off?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cur6OHOkiDA]John Stossel with Ron Paul: Is War Ever Justifiable? - YouTube[/ame]

JS: Is war ever justifiable?

RP: Sure. If you're attacked, you have a right and an obligation to defend (your) country. I do not believe there is ever a moral justification to start the war.

JS: So in World War II, we were justified?

RP: Sure.

JS: How about going into Afghanistan after Sept. 11?

RP: I voted for that authority to go after those responsible for 9/11.

JS: The Korean War?

RP: Totally unjustified.

JS: Kosovo?

RP: Absolutely unjustified.

JS: Vietnam?

RP: A horror.

JS: The first Iraq war? Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. He might have invaded the next country, and the next.

RP: I bet Israel would have done something about it, and I bet Saudi Arabia maybe would have talked to Israel. I think if it would have been left to the region, they might have taken care of Saddam Hussein in 1990 and we wouldn't have the problems we have today.

RealClearPolitics - Articles - Ron Paul On War

mazel tov.

although, he is right about israel in 1991. if daddy bush hadn't tied israel's hands after the SCUD attacks, maybe saddam *would* have been out sooner... although israel generally isn't in the business of deposing the heads of government.

 

[Kuros]

HOw is it a mistake? If we were already there, that is what we needed to do, and from the very beginning. We should have never messed around with Iraq.

C'mon. The occupation of Japan lasted seven years. The occupation of Germany lasted five years. These were successful occupations. The occupation of Afghanistan has lasted over nine years. It has not been successful.

The occupations of Germany and Japan are still ongoing....The occupying forces never left.

That's Dr. Paul's entire point.

I agree we should leave Japan and Germany, even though I wouldn't call our current commitments there occupations. Indeed, we should leave Japan and Germany even though THEIR GOVERNMENTS ASK US TO STAY.

I wanted to choose two parallels of how to wind down a just war. How long does an occupation after a just war last? After a certain point, even if a war is just (intervention in Afghanistan after the direct attack of 9-11), we may yet concede the action has suffered from imperialist drift.

I have little doubt that if we negotiated with the Taliban and left on terms within the next few months, the new Afghanistan gov't would not support Al Qaeda activities to harass the US.

 

[Dr.Drock]

YOu realize Neocons are said to be converted democrats during the Reagan years?
Just messing with you, because I know Jillian isn't a republican.

She just agrees with republicans on why we should have our military all over the world and how we should engage in wars that have absolutely nothing to do with the defense of the US.

not at all...

really? i think we should have our military all over the world? no exceptions? i do love blanket statements.... especially when they're lies.

i know... it's the israel thing for you (for ron paul, too...)

too bad. *shrug*

My apologies, correct me, tell me the mistakes you think Obama is making in terms of his foreign policy. What areas do you disagree with him bombing the hell out of? What areas do you disagree with him in terms of leaving a military presence there?

And I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of Israel.

 

[Avorysuds]

I'll post most of what RP actually said.

There's a difference between military spending and defense spending

We have to be honest with ourselves. What would we do if another country, say China, did to us what we do to all those countries over there. So I would say that a foreign policy that takes care of our national defense; we're willing to get along with people and trade people as the Founding Fathers advise . . . just remember that George W. Bush won the Presidency on that platform in the year 2000. And I still think its a good platform.

Ron Paul is breathtakingly - and actually dangerously - naive about defense.

And let me guess... You understand defense? Lol ok, whatever.

 

[Contumacious]

Ron Paul is breathtakingly - and actually dangerously - naive about defense.

Yes, indeed he is.

A Leader must have a teutonic accent and a toothbrush moustache . He must be willing to declare war to two continents simultaneously. So I am looking for this man's clone:

As always, Heil Hitler.

.

 

[WillowTree]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

I'm glad your moronic ass is scared.

 

[WillowTree]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

neither one of them will ever be president...




ever.

Agree.

 

[saveliberty]

Like I worry about guys who live in caves and send guys with defective sneekers.

 

[Big Black Dog]

It's time for Ron Paul to go home and begin sitting on the front porch with the rest of the senile old people.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I love Santorum's response. Watch Santorum's face.

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

I'm glad your moronic ass is scared.

It is scary that our population is STILL fooled so easily by our politicians fearmongering.

I can't keep track of all the things I'm supposed to be scared to death of muslims/global warming/some banks failing/a car company failing/credit ratings/the other team getting elected/gays/budget deadlines/etc.

I'm sure I missed dozens.

 

[WillowTree]

Ron Paul is completely correct, go figure he would get boo'ed for telling the facts.

The other guys response scared me though, blaming the muslim tactic.

I'm glad your moronic ass is scared.

It is scary that our population is STILL fooled so easily by our politicians fearmongering.

I can't keep track of all the things I'm supposed to be scared to death of muslims/global warming/some banks failing/a car company failing/credit ratings/the other team getting elected/gays/budget deadlines/etc.

I'm sure I missed dozens.

I'm sure you missed Cheney on the View today. They had a good conversation. He was sitting among his biggest detractors.