flu shots?

[SmarterThanHick]

Any medication can kill you, anything you inject straight into the blood stream has a higher risk of killing you. Vaccines can kill you as well.

For someone who claims to do their homework, it's sad that you didn't know that vaccinations aren't injected straight into the blood stream. Can you tell me the last time anyone died from the flu shot? Do you know anyone who died from a flu shot? Have you ever heard of anyone? Ever? Wait better yet: give me the percentage of Americans who die each year from the flu vaccine. Let me know how many zeros you need after the decimal point.

Percent of the entire population that gets infected with influenza each year: 5% to 20% (that's 15-60 MILLION people)
Hospitalizations: 200,000
Number of people who die each year from the flu? 36,000

oh but hey, some uneducated fear mongering hick who rejects evidence based medicine knows better, and would rather have those numbers increase than submit to the negligible risk of just getting vaccinated.

Remember the avian flu scare used to push for more funding. Well, that's what the swine flu is as well.

ah so, because scientists are trying to get funding for medical research, people shouldn't get the seasonal flu vaccine? wouldn't want to invest money in investigating the diseases that are killing now, would we? This is not a "flu scare". The CDC has confirmed tens of thousands of cases, with an estimate of over one million.

wow, you're really grasping at straws, huh?

 

[Cecilie1200]

hi. i don't know if you're aware, but here in America we have this thing called the FDA. They are basically responsible for ensuring every drug that makes it to market has a benefit that far outweighs the risk. When it comes to flu shots, risks are very very tiny. most common side effects generally are.... sore arm. for a few hours. maybe.

studies have shown that one person out of one million may be at RISK (not definitely get something, but just be at risk) for more serious side effects. benefits of getting a flu shot FAR outweigh the negligible side effects.

Wow ... you do know that a lot of medications approved by the FDA are killing people in the US because of them not learning about their own meds, right? At least we know you like being babysat.

I suppose it someone doesn't read TFM they're going to screw up. But doesn't the pharmacist discuss stuff with the consumer?

Sure. And your doctor will, too. However, THEY aren't the ones who are going to suffer if something goes wrong. YOU are, so it's a good idea to be proactive and informed yourself as to what you put in your body.

Besides, you know your body best, and if you don't know which side effects to look for, you may not realize you're having a bad reaction to meds until it's too late.

 

[KittenKoder]

Any medication can kill you, anything you inject straight into the blood stream has a higher risk of killing you. Vaccines can kill you as well.

For someone who claims to do their homework, it's sad that you didn't know that vaccinations aren't injected straight into the blood stream. Can you tell me the last time anyone died from the flu shot? Do you know anyone who died from a flu shot? Have you ever heard of anyone? Ever? Wait better yet: give me the percentage of Americans who die each year from the flu vaccine. Let me know how many zeros you need after the decimal point.

Percent of the entire population that gets infected with influenza each year: 5% to 20% (that's 15-60 MILLION people)
Hospitalizations: 200,000
Number of people who die each year from the flu? 36,000

oh but hey, some uneducated fear mongering hick who rejects evidence based medicine knows better, and would rather have those numbers increase than submit to the negligible risk of just getting vaccinated.

Remember the avian flu scare used to push for more funding. Well, that's what the swine flu is as well.

ah so, because scientists are trying to get funding for medical research, people shouldn't get the seasonal flu vaccine? wouldn't want to invest money in investigating the diseases that are killing now, would we? This is not a "flu scare". The CDC has confirmed tens of thousands of cases, with an estimate of over one million.

wow, you're really grasping at straws, huh?

So ... some people got sick ... and? People get sick all the time, it's part of being alive, and without illness we wouldn't have evolved anyhow.

 

[KittenKoder]

As for the deaths related to the flu, the "official" numbers (the ones not published on their site) are much lower, the 36,000 is called an estimate because they really don't know. Stop using the hyped numbers, makes you look like a media drone.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

So ... some people got sick ... and? People get sick all the time, it's part of being alive, and without illness we wouldn't have evolved anyhow.

Yes, people get sick. and die. But it's better to have minimal sickness and fewer deaths because people took their flu shot, then listen to backwater quacks like you and have higher infection and death rates

As for the deaths related to the flu, the "official" numbers (the ones not published on their site) are much lower, the 36,000 is called an estimate because they really don't know. Stop using the hyped numbers, makes you look like a media drone.

oh that's classic! a hick trying to disagree with the Center for Disease Control and several studies in the Journal of the American Medical Association! hahahahahahahaha
oh but hey - if basic concepts of modern medicine escape you, I shouldn't expect you to do much better with statistics...

perhaps you should read about how they get their numbers, eh? they explain it in the very link I gave.

OK so what have we gotten out of all of this?

• you dislike the idea of funding being used to research disease
• you reject all evidence based medicine, despite the evidence
• you are afraid of the minimal side effects associated with the flu shot
• you think the influenza vaccine causes death
• you think the influenze vaccine is injected into the bloodstream
• you would rather have millions of people get sick than take a flu shot and stay healthy
• you give no alternative solution past stating that part of being alive is getting sick and sickness helps us evolve
• you haven't supported a single word of anything you've said with any evidence whatsoever

well done! I think you're done now.

 

[KittenKoder]

SMH, if you like being babysat, fine, just don't babysit me.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

ah, excellent refutation. I think you can pull your fingers out of your ears and stop humming loudly now.

Meanwhile, I will continue to do my homework on things to avoid falling into the paranoid ignorance that you portray. I will continue to realize that the benefits from evidence based medicine far outweigh the faults, and that through factual evidence, I will live a longer and healthier life compared to rejecting/ignoring the proof set before me.

 

[geauxtohell]

and this applies to a FLU SHOT how? how often do people get sued for a flu shot?

again, taking examples of rare heart disease drugs with compounded side effects for complex diseases is just a desperate attempt to diminish a completely safe and legitimate medication.

Hey! Apples are red, and fire hydrants are red, so therefore apples have horrible side effects that produce massive lawsuits! No, minimal things in common do not create equivalents.

But by all means, support your claim: show the homework on the side effects for the FLU SHOT that are so horrible.

Any medication can kill you, anything you inject straight into the blood stream has a higher risk of killing you. Vaccines can kill you as well.

Just because the FDA approves doesn't mean it's safe, it means they can pay the fees the FDA collects.

You know what is really toxic? Oxygen.

Face it, you are mortal. Something is going to do you in. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with the medical establishment, but it doesn't mean the entire medical establishment is quackery.

Far from it. If most professions were as self critical as medicine, the world would be a better place.

 

[KittenKoder]

ah, excellent refutation. I think you can pull your fingers out of your ears and stop humming loudly now.

Meanwhile, I will continue to do my homework on things to avoid falling into the paranoid ignorance that you portray. I will continue to realize that the benefits from evidence based medicine far outweigh the faults, and that through factual evidence, I will live a longer and healthier life compared to rejecting/ignoring the proof set before me.

No, you aren't doing your homework, you are taking what doctors say as flawless fact, in spite of evidence to the contrary. You also think the FDA cares about your safety and hasn't allowed deadly untested drugs over tested safer drugs. You have surrendered your life to the medical machine, that's sad, you also want to let them tell you what to do, as I said, if you want to be babysat, fine, but don't babysit any other adults because us intelligent ones want to make our own informed decisions. Here's a clue, an informed decision can't be made from one source of information.

 

[geauxtohell]

No, you aren't doing your homework, you are taking what doctors say as flawless fact, in spite of evidence to the contrary. You also think the FDA cares about your safety and hasn't allowed deadly untested drugs over tested safer drugs. You have surrendered your life to the medical machine, that's sad, you also want to let them tell you what to do, as I said, if you want to be babysat, fine, but don't babysit any other adults because us intelligent ones want to make our own informed decisions. Here's a clue, an informed decision can't be made from one source of information.

You are being somewhat glib about the motivations of the FDA. If we assume that pharm companies operate with the noblest intentions (which I don't believe), the FDA evaluates drugs based off of tests on a very small population of people, then the drug get's a provincial approval and is put on the market into a much larger population and, not surprisingly, some people have adverse reactions.

It's the price of progress.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

No, you aren't doing your homework, you are taking what doctors say as flawless fact

But I can take what legitimate prospective double blinded scientific investigations say as pretty solid evidence. As opposed to what you use to form your judgements: NOTHING.

You also think the FDA cares about your safety and hasn't allowed deadly untested drugs over tested safer drugs.

Actually no, that's not true at all. The FDA does not allow untested drugs to be used in the US. Ever. In fact, the entire purpose of the FDA is to test and examine drugs. They don't let things slip. You can't name a single drug in the last 3 decades (probably more) that hasn't been tested before being approved by the FDA.

Here's a clue, an informed decision can't be made from one source of information.

Good clue. In this debate I have used and cited several sources, from CDC information, to peer reviewed studies published in the most prestigious and closely examined journals in the country. Your response has not been refutation, not been counter-evidence, but rather NOTHING. hand waiving. pretending they don't exist

The end result is that you appear to know NOTHING about the topic, right down to how a flu shot is administered (this is basic stuff!) or the purpose of the FDA.

So it appears to me that you talk big about education and making informed decisions from multiple sources, but present none, use none, and very clearly base your ideas off of things you fabricate, contrary to all your moaning about multi-sourced evidence.

Your hypocrisy and feeble attempts to debunk a system you clearly have learned nothing about are amusing.