Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Law, is it seriously flawed?

[Papageorgio]

Here is a link to the entire law:
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Here is the section that could allow Zimmerman to walk free and why no arrest has been made.

It's section 3 of the law.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

To me this looks like a huge loophole in the law.

 

[The Rabbi]

There is no loophole. That is common law standard.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

There is no loophole. That is common law standard.

Yeah....and, how can anyone possibly dispute....

.....the APPLICATION....

....o' such "laws"??!!!

 

[tjvh]

Bottom line IS... If you don't want to get shot and killed by a Gun, don't commit crimes against people who have Guns.

 

[Disturbed9]

Tjvh.
Leftist political opportunity.

 

[peach174]

Do you ever wonder why some are saying that the stand your ground law doesn't apply to Zimmerman?

Because the stand your ground law is for a dwelling,residence or vehicle.

You are singling out a part of the law that still applies to a dwelling, residence or vehicle.

None of that applies to Zimmerman's case.

 

[tjvh]

Tjvh.
Leftist political opportunity.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this whole Zimmerman thing, and how "some" people want to toss aside our Judicial system in favor of the "Mob Rule" mentality, by Politicizing it. They want to argue Laws already "on the books" that PROTECT our citizens from thuggery, just to crucify George Zimmerman... Who IS going to walk under the Laws that ARE written. You have the usual suspects (Sharpton, etc.) with their manufactured "outrage" ranting about RACE, while completely IGNORING Black on Black crime as a whole... Which panders to those who are IGNORANT of how the Law works in "this" case. The ONLY conclusion I can make is that "they" (the usual suspects) are setting up our Nation for another "Rodney King style" after-party, with brand new Big Screen TV's as the this years "theme". SHAMEFUL.

 

[bucs90]

Here is a link to the entire law:
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Here is the section that could allow Zimmerman to walk free and why no arrest has been made.

It's section 3 of the law.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

To me this looks like a huge loophole in the law.

It's not a loophole. In fact, it is almost word-for-word the exact same framework that every single police officer in America works under when incidents of Use of Force come up, as set by Supreme Court rulings like Graham vs Connor and Tennessee vs Gardner.

If a cop is.....

- Legally in a place
- Observes a threat to himself or another

He can use a level of force that is reasonable (Graham v Connor) to protect himself or another. In cases of a threat that could reasonably be interpreted to cause death OR great bodily harm, the cop is justified in even using deadly force. In fact, Tenn vs Gardner stated a cop can shoot a fleeing felon (in the back even) IF....the facts would reasonably determing that the fleeing felon, if allowed to escape, would cause an immediate threat to human life.


So, the FLA law isn't flawed. It simply allows a citizen the same level of self-defense a cop has.

So, imagine this: A cop is laying on the ground, a suspect is on top of him. THe suspect is smashing the cops upper body, hitting him, causing the back of his head to bounce off the concrete.

Is the cop in danger of "serious bodily injury or death"? Yes. Without question. Hundreds of assaults have resulted in death when someone hits the back of their head on pavement.

Is the cop jusified in using a high level of force, even deadly force, to meet that threat which is causing a risk of serious bodily injury or death to him? Yes. He is.

So was Zimmerman.

Like it or not, Zimmeran will be found not guilty.

From this case, we will take the lesson of: Do not attack another human being. Even if he insults you. Even if he racially profiles you. Even if he offends your pride and ego and insults everything that you hold dear. It still doesn't give you a license to assault him. If you do, he can defend himself.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I guess I dont understand why democrats and liberals dont want people fighting back?

And why they love criminals so much?

Are criminals one of the democrat parties interest groups?

 

[BreezeWood]

has no duty to retreat

the Florida criteria for assault "was" not the (perpetrator) but who caused the most bodily injury .... rather than no duty to retreat this odd interpretation made for the most effective way of preventing violent crime as those that employed it would be the ones held accountable.

 

[Edgetho]

Do you ever wonder why some are saying that the stand your ground law doesn't apply to Zimmerman?

Because the stand your ground law is for a dwelling,residence or vehicle.

You are singling out a part of the law that still applies to a dwelling, residence or vehicle.

None of that applies to Zimmerman's case.

What are you babbling about?

No it isn't. The SYG law was designed for people OUTSIDE their homes

 

[peach174]

Do you ever wonder why some are saying that the stand your ground law doesn't apply to Zimmerman?

Because the stand your ground law is for a dwelling,residence or vehicle.

You are singling out a part of the law that still applies to a dwelling, residence or vehicle.

None of that applies to Zimmerman's case.

What are you babbling about?

No it isn't. The SYG law was designed for people OUTSIDE their homes

Did you read his link?
The law taken as a whole (not just the one part that was put up) is for dwelling, residence or vehicle. Not a public sidewalk.

 

[bucs90]

Do you ever wonder why some are saying that the stand your ground law doesn't apply to Zimmerman?

Because the stand your ground law is for a dwelling,residence or vehicle.

You are singling out a part of the law that still applies to a dwelling, residence or vehicle.

None of that applies to Zimmerman's case.

What are you babbling about?

No it isn't. The SYG law was designed for people OUTSIDE their homes

Did you read his link?
The law taken as a whole (not just the one part that was put up) is for dwelling, residence or vehicle. Not a public sidewalk.

Time for Law 101.

You missed the part about "any other place" they are legally allowed to be. That would include a sidewalk.

In all police reports, a vehicle is NOT A "PLACE". So, if a shooting occurs in a vehicle, on a roadway, the report section labeled "premise" type (place it happened) does not offer a spot called "vehicle". A "vehicle" is not a place. So a person in a car is legally seen as a pedestrian.

Thats why if your buddy gets arrested for DUI, and you are a drunk passenger, you can be arrested for being Drunk In Public. Or Intoxicated on a Public Highway.


According you your logic:

- If I'm in my CAR, and get shot at, I have not duty to retreat, even inside my car that can go 100mph and offers some minor protection from the bullets.

but

- If I'm standing outside my car, and the same guy shoots at me, I then have a duty to retreat?

See how stupid that sounds?

 

[peach174]

As used in this section, the term:
(a) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night.
(b) “Residence” means a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently or is visiting as an invited guest.

(c) “Vehicle” means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, which is designed to transport people or property.

It still applies to part a.
It never says any public place.
You have to take that statement with the whole law.
Any other place means, a porch or a tent. on the property.

 

[peach174]

What are you babbling about?

No it isn't. The SYG law was designed for people OUTSIDE their homes

Did you read his link?
The law taken as a whole (not just the one part that was put up) is for dwelling, residence or vehicle. Not a public sidewalk.

Time for Law 101.

You missed the part about "any other place" they are legally allowed to be. That would include a sidewalk.

In all police reports, a vehicle is NOT A "PLACE". So, if a shooting occurs in a vehicle, on a roadway, the report section labeled "premise" type (place it happened) does not offer a spot called "vehicle". A "vehicle" is not a place. So a person in a car is legally seen as a pedestrian.

Thats why if your buddy gets arrested for DUI, and you are a drunk passenger, you can be arrested for being Drunk In Public. Or Intoxicated on a Public Highway.


According you your logic:

- If I'm in my CAR, and get shot at, I have not duty to retreat, even inside my car that can go 100mph and offers some minor protection from the bullets.

but

- If I'm standing outside my car, and the same guy shoots at me, I then have a duty to retreat?

See how stupid that sounds?

That is your logic not mine. Never said that nor even implied it.

 

[tjvh]

And a "gated community" fits into Florida Law how? Is that a public place? Hardly.

 

[nitroz]

Not really. What made it "flawed" is how the SPD handled it, not being clear if zimmerman was rightfully protected by this law. They could have lied about the entire thing for all we know.

Blame the authorities for not handling this properly.

 

[Charles_Main]

Here is a link to the entire law:
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Here is the section that could allow Zimmerman to walk free and why no arrest has been made.

It's section 3 of the law.

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

To me this looks like a huge loophole in the law.

Not seeing an issue myself. Sounds Pretty Easy to understand. Not sure what you think the problem is? The last line? A force able Felony is not just Anything, It would mean Crimes such as Rape, Mugging, Home Invasion, Armed robbery, Etc. It's saying you can use Force to Defend your life, someone elses life, or to stop the Commission of some other Violent Crime.

I don't know about you, But if some Law Abiding, Gun Carrying citizen happens to be around when the bank I am in Gets Robbed, Or Me or a Loved one is being Attacked, I for one want that person to be able to take action, With out worrying they may go to jail for it.

 

[rdean]

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" Law, is it seriously flawed?

Yea, because it doesn't apply to a black person who "stands their ground". Apparently, they have no ground to stand on. Ask Trayvon. Oh, that's right. He was chased down and executed for "standing his ground".

 

[Polk]

There is no loophole. That is common law standard.

That's not true. Common law requires retreat when possible (unless the person is on your property).