Florida No Warmer Than 60 Years Ago

[RadiomanATL]

I grew up in Florida. It has always felt like God has pinched the United States between his thumb and forefinger, picked it up, and double dipped Florida in the seventh ring of hell.

 

[editec]

It's sunny here in Maine today.

Ergo it will henceforth always be sunnny.

Seriously, I wonder about the people here posting crap like Sinatra is doing regards climate.

Can they really be this stupid, or are they merely hoping we are?

That one cuts both ways.

Just because it was unusually warm for ten or fifteen years, does that trend necessarily extrapolate out fifty to 100 years??

If one assumes that climatologists actually know what the temperature was for thousands of years, (and neither of us is remotely qualified to say they're not right about those temps) then your claim that the theory of global warming is based on data of the last fifty or 100 years is seriously flawed.

Science has been wrong in the past, don't get me wrong. It could be wrong again.

But given a choice between believing the majority of climatologists or those of you who imagine you're posting hard hitting facts that disprove their theory?

Sorry, pal, but I'm going to lean toward believing the people whose training and experience is actually in that field over your lame attemtps to discredit it, know what I mean?

You guys typically play the same idiotic game.

You rewrite the theories pf science that actually are being offered, and then explain to us why the theory that nobody is advancing is wrong.

That dishonest game may just totally wow the morons you folks typically hang with, but it blather just doesn't wash in the world of the intellect.

 

[Oddball]

If one assumes that climatologists actually know what the temperature was for thousands of years, (and neither of us is remotely qualified to say they're not right about those temps) then your claim that the theory of global warming is based on data of the last fifty or 100 years is seriously flawed.

If gullible warming moonbats can try to have it both ways, why can't skeptics and debunkers??

But given a choice between believing the majority of climatologists or those of you who imagine you're posting hard hitting facts that disprove their theory?'

Sorry, pal, but I'm going to lean toward believing the people whose training and experience is actually in that field over your lame attemtps to discredit it, know what I mean?

See: Pascal's wager....http://clublet.com/c/c/why?PascalsWager

and

Bifurcation Fallacy...http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?BifurcationFallacy

 

[Big Black Dog]

WHERE IS THE GLOBAL WARMING FOLKS?

I guess it hasn't gotten to Miami yet. Probably will be there next week! I'm sure the environmental wackos will let us know when it gets there!

 

[Chris]

More accurately, while the Solar irradience was high and stable recently, the earth was warming. In the very recent past, the Solar activity and presumably the TSI has dropped.

Very recently, the temperature of the Globe has also dropped.

By the by, what's up with our Prez offering to reduce CO2 emissions by 80%? Was this a grand stand gesture that he knew would be turned down or has he really just abandoned and semblace of sanity?

The temperature has dropped this year relative to the past 15 years which were the hottest on record. And the Stanford Solar Center scientists say that 75% of the increase came from the effect of increasing atmospheric CO2.

The effect of increasing atmospheric CO2 by 40% will always work within the context of the sun's activity. But the effect of 8 billion tons of CO2 added to the atmosphere every year is cumulative. And every day the percentage of CO2 in the atmosphere goes up. Soon we will have DOUBLED the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

And again, to keep things in perspective, the contribution of CO2 due to the activities of man is only three percent of the total contributed annually. Nature contributes the other 97% and this pretty much details the ability of Man to counter the build up.

Rocks just posted a piece on the thawing of the permafrost. As this occurs, even more CO2 is released due to natural forces.

At this rate, we'll never catch up. Nature's contribution is apparently more than 258 billion tons annually.

Sorry, your don't get it.

If we add 3% to the level of CO2 every year for 100 years, then we have increased natural CO2 by 300% because it take at least a century for the earth to absorb the extra CO2.

And the thawing of permafrost adds methane to the atmosphere, and methane is 20 times more powerful a greenhouse gas than CO2. The "methane bomb" could be much more powerful than man made CO2.

Soon we will have DOUBLED the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. We are using the earth as a giant lab experiment, and it is pretty easy to calculate the results. The MIT scientist estimate that we will warm the earth by 4-6 degrees by the end of this century.

 

[Chris]

Study co-author Ronald Prinn, the co-director of the Joint Program and director of MIT's Center for Global Change Science, says that, regarding global warming, it is important "to base our opinions and policies on the peer-reviewed science," he says. And in the peer-reviewed literature, the MIT model, unlike any other, looks in great detail at the effects of economic activity coupled with the effects of atmospheric, oceanic and biological systems. "In that sense, our work is unique," he says.

The new projections, published this month in the American Meteorological Society's Journal of Climate, indicate a median probability of surface warming of 5.2 degrees Celsius by 2100, with a 90% probability range of 3.5 to 7.4 degrees.

Climate change odds much worse than thought - MIT News Office

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm not trying to be wide guy with this, but was it you or Chris who has repeatedly cited the hot temps in the southern US as evidence of Global Warming?

Only in response to someone citing cold temps as evidence of global cooling.

The earth is heating up in spite of the lowest level of sun activity in 80 years.

More accurately, while the Solar irradience was high and stable recently, the earth was warming. In the very recent past, the Solar activity and presumably the TSI has dropped.

Very recently, the temperature of the Globe has also dropped.

By the by, what's up with our Prez offering to reduce CO2 emissions by 80%? Was this a grand stand gesture that he knew would be turned down or has he really just abandoned and semblace of sanity?

No, the TSI has not dropped. And the temperatures have gone up over the last ten years. Otherwise, how would you have the year of 2008, with a strong and persistant La Nina, plus a solar minimum still coming in at the eighth warmest on record. However, here is what Yale researchers have to say on the subject;

The Yale Forum on Climate Change & The Media » COMMON CLIMATE MISCONCEPTIONS:Solar Influences on Global Temperature

Comparing TSI to global temperatures reveals that although TSI and temperatures both followed similar trajectories prior to the early 1970s, they have diverged significantly since then, with trends in TSI remaining relatively flat while temperature increases have accelerated.

 

[Old Rocks]

Skeptic Assertion
The official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia show that for the eight-year period between 1998-2005, global average temperature did not increase. This period of stasis exemplifies the “dynamic, fluctuating nature of climate change.”[33]

[edit]Rebuttal
Research by Robert Fawcett "examines the temperature data of three different data-sets to determine the long term trend amidst the short term variations."[34] He wrote in the Bulletin of the Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society that "short-term warming or cooling is expected from natural variability…and is not necessarily indicative of external influences." Research concluded that all three data sets demonstrate that the hot 1998 was due to the strong El Niño, and the trend from 1998 to 2007 is that of warming.[35]
Climate change skeptics/common claims and rebuttal - SourceWatch

 

[Old Rocks]

Articles
Has the world cooled since 1998?
Robert Fawcett
National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, Australia
Address for correspondence: R. Fawcett, National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, GPO Box
1289, Melbourne, Vic 3001, Australia. Email: [email protected]
1. Introduction
In the past few years, there have been repeated
assertions from some, commenting on the
IPCC Assessment Reports2 and elsewhere, to
the effect that global mean temperatures have
remained static, or even fallen slightly, over
the past decade. This is in spite of continued
increases in atmospheric greenhouse gas
concentrations (e.g., Carter 2006, 2007). In
what follows, for brevity this will be referred
to as the “cooling assertion”. A typical
response to the cooling assertion is that the
global warming conditions that occurred in
1998 were due in part to the very strong El
Niño event of 1997/98, and subsequent years
have been as warm or nearly as warm from
much less emphatic El Niño-Southern
Oscillation (ENSO) conditions.

http://www.amos.org.au/documents/item/82

 

[code1211]

Articles
Has the world cooled since 1998?
Robert Fawcett
National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, Australia
Address for correspondence: R. Fawcett, National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, GPO Box
1289, Melbourne, Vic 3001, Australia. Email: [email protected]
1. Introduction
In the past few years, there have been repeated
assertions from some, commenting on the
IPCC Assessment Reports2 and elsewhere, to
the effect that global mean temperatures have
remained static, or even fallen slightly, over
the past decade. This is in spite of continued
increases in atmospheric greenhouse gas
concentrations (e.g., Carter 2006, 2007). In
what follows, for brevity this will be referred
to as the “cooling assertion”. A typical
response to the cooling assertion is that the
global warming conditions that occurred in
1998 were due in part to the very strong El
Niño event of 1997/98, and subsequent years
have been as warm or nearly as warm from
much less emphatic El Niño-Southern
Oscillation (ENSO) conditions.

http://www.amos.org.au/documents/item/82

One straw man after another. The graphs with huge 1998 spike followed by that deep valley in 2000 show such a dramatic swing that the uninitiated are tempeted to look at it and gasp.

This is much like Al Gore showing the correlation of CO2 and Temperature in his movie and leaving out the only important point of info. Everybody gasps and Al keeps his little secret that the temp causes the CO2 and not the other way around.

The measuring of cooling in the very recent past is from 2001 to present which is supported by data from the four major temperature measuring organizations.

You continue to repeat that the Solar minimum of late and the La Nina of late are responsible for this. Did they both start in 2001?

Below is the link and excerpt from an article that is revealing. The last line posted says that the current cooling doesn't have a firm cause. Of course, it does. If it didn't have a cause, it would not be happening. The scientists, however, don't know what the cause is.

They warn that after this unknown cause is over that the cause they know about will return and the warming will be faster than ever.

There is no difference between this approach and superstition. They have one winning move and that's CO2. Even when the evidence points away from their pre set conclusion, they still cling to it.

Global Warming: On Hold?: Discovery News

Still, according to a new study in Geophysical Research Letters, global warming may have hit a speed bump and could go into hiding for decades.

Earth's climate continues to confound scientists. Following a 30-year trend of warming, global temperatures have flatlined since 2001 despite rising greenhouse gas concentrations, and a heat surplus that should have cranked up the planetary thermostat.



"This is nothing like anything we've seen since 1950," Kyle Swanson of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee said. "Cooling events since then had firm causes, like eruptions or large-magnitude La Ninas. This current cooling doesn't have one."

 

[Old Rocks]

Swanson thinks the trend could continue for up to 30 years. But he warned that it's just a hiccup, and that humans' penchant for spewing greenhouse gases will certainly come back to haunt us.

"When the climate kicks back out of this state, we'll have explosive warming," Swanson said. "Thirty years of greenhouse gas radiative forcing will still be there and then bang, the warming will return and be very aggressive."
Global Warming: On Hold?: Discovery News

 

[Old Rocks]

OK, Code, I will make a prediction that we will see record temperatures on the next El Nino, probably in less than 3 years. If I am correct, I will certainly call you on this. And vice a versa, of course.

 

[code1211]

OK, Code, I will make a prediction that we will see record temperatures on the next El Nino, probably in less than 3 years. If I am correct, I will certainly call you on this. And vice a versa, of course.

With a large smile, agreed.

Out of curiosity, aren't we already overdue for an El Nino event?

 

[Sinatra]

Articles
Has the world cooled since 1998?
Robert Fawcett
National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, Australia
Address for correspondence: R. Fawcett, National Climate Centre, Bureau of Meteorology, GPO Box
1289, Melbourne, Vic 3001, Australia. Email: [email protected]
1. Introduction
In the past few years, there have been repeated
assertions from some, commenting on the
IPCC Assessment Reports2 and elsewhere, to
the effect that global mean temperatures have
remained static, or even fallen slightly, over
the past decade. This is in spite of continued
increases in atmospheric greenhouse gas
concentrations (e.g., Carter 2006, 2007). In
what follows, for brevity this will be referred
to as the “cooling assertion”. A typical
response to the cooling assertion is that the
global warming conditions that occurred in
1998 were due in part to the very strong El
Niño event of 1997/98, and subsequent years
have been as warm or nearly as warm from
much less emphatic El Niño-Southern
Oscillation (ENSO) conditions.

http://www.amos.org.au/documents/item/82

One straw man after another. The graphs with huge 1998 spike followed by that deep valley in 2000 show such a dramatic swing that the uninitiated are tempeted to look at it and gasp.

This is much like Al Gore showing the correlation of CO2 and Temperature in his movie and leaving out the only important point of info. Everybody gasps and Al keeps his little secret that the temp causes the CO2 and not the other way around.

The measuring of cooling in the very recent past is from 2001 to present which is supported by data from the four major temperature measuring organizations.

You continue to repeat that the Solar minimum of late and the La Nina of late are responsible for this. Did they both start in 2001?

Below is the link and excerpt from an article that is revealing. The last line posted says that the current cooling doesn't have a firm cause. Of course, it does. If it didn't have a cause, it would not be happening. The scientists, however, don't know what the cause is.
They warn that after this unknown cause is over that the cause they know about will return and the warming will be faster than ever.

There is no difference between this approach and superstition. They have one winning move and that's CO2. Even when the evidence points away from their pre set conclusion, they still cling to it.

Global Warming: On Hold?: Discovery News

Still, according to a new study in Geophysical Research Letters, global warming may have hit a speed bump and could go into hiding for decades.

Earth's climate continues to confound scientists. Following a 30-year trend of warming, global temperatures have flatlined since 2001 despite rising greenhouse gas concentrations, and a heat surplus that should have cranked up the planetary thermostat.



"This is nothing like anything we've seen since 1950," Kyle Swanson of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee said. "Cooling events since then had firm causes, like eruptions or large-magnitude La Ninas. This current cooling doesn't have one."

Very well said.

So much time and energy is now being spent to disregard the clear cooling trend that has taken place in the last decade, while persisting that once this "strange" cooling passes, the warm temps will be back warmer than ever.

Science has taken a backseat to religion - Global Warming is doctrine, not science, and those who do not fall in line do so at the risk of excommunication.

Those who take that risk are akin to Luther posting his 95 theses on the door of the group-think mantra of the global warmers.