Flip Flopping Trump wants to raise minimum wage

[JimBowie1958]

What I would like you to do is find me some fifth-graders that can explain how your business went under while others flourished.

So you think that if we had a higher minimum wage, your business would have been successful? No wonder you're not in business any longer. What were you trying to sell--Fn yoyo's???

When I see a person make such a distant cause, I have to laugh. Did you ever think that you were in a business that nobody wanted? Did you ever think that maybe because rents are going up, people had less money to spend? Did you ever think that people were using the money they had to pay off debts such as those caused by the housing crash? No, it had to be because minimum wage was too low.

What I'd like you to explain is how you arrived at the notion that my "business went under", when I never said that. Actually my business flourished (despite some struggles), while others went under. And my business expanded, but it could have done even better if the MW had been higher. Got it now ?

And yeah, I thought that because rents were going up, people had less to spend, of course, why do you ask, such a stupid question, while changing the subject, Mr Dodge ? And whatever other reasons people had for their lack of money, that doesn't mean that the low MW wasn't one of them. Get it ?

Why don't you get it?

Get this: Minimum wage workers in this country comprise about 3% of our population--that's it. HTF can you even make claim that 3% of workers that work for that wage (basically high school kids, college kids, stay at home wives and retirees) had anything to do with you losing money?

WTF kind of business do you have that is so reliant on minimum wage workers; so reliant on this 3%????

Your problem is that you don't look at facts and figures, instead, you make things up in your own mind. Your failures are not your own, your failures are that government didn't force industry to pay a higher minimum wage. How ridiculous.

He is not reliant on minimum wage workers, but in the effect of having a higher rate of disposable income in the whole country, something that having a higher minimum wage has been proven to push up wards.

They dont teach this any more in college? My Gawd!

 

[Mac1958]

The Donald is a different, anti-establishment candidate. This status allows him a unique status: He is allowed to wake up every morning new and fresh. Anything he said yesterday, including policy positions and insults & name-calling, no longer applies. It is a new day.

Only establishment candidates are expected to follow normal rules like consistency, decorum, dignity and honesty.

That stuff is for RINOs and commies.
.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Get this: Minimum wage workers in this country comprise about 3% of our population--that's it. HTF can you even make claim that 3% of workers that work for that wage (basically high school kids, college kids, stay at home wives and retirees) had anything to do with you losing money?

Is that the same 3% of the work force that republicans claim will destroy the economy if they get a modest raise?

 

[JimBowie1958]

The Donald is a different, anti-establishment candidate. This status allows him a unique status: He is allowed to wake up every morning new and fresh. Anything he said yesterday, including policy positions and insults & name-calling, no longer applies. It is a new day.

Only establishment candidates are expected to follow normal rules like consistency, decorum, dignity and honesty.

That stuff is for RINOs and commies.
.

Decorum, dignity, and 'honesty' (oh my gawd, seriously?) are Professional Political Class criteria for washing out independent thinking candidates, and nothing more.

These drones go through years of learning how to say nothing of substance so that the press cant criticize them for offending anyone and voters cant hold them to breaking promises.

And so the press does one 'gotcha!' interview after another and the Political Establishment is left holding their dicks in their hands, crying, 'Why is the Donald Teflon?'

He is Teflon because most of us understand the bullshit game now and we want an effective President, not some ass kissing fraud who knows how to build his resume and tap dance around the press. We are not listening to the 'gotcha!' horse crap any more because all it has gotten us is one failure of a President after another for the last seven POTUS elections.

 

[Mac1958]

The Donald is a different, anti-establishment candidate. This status allows him a unique status: He is allowed to wake up every morning new and fresh. Anything he said yesterday, including policy positions and insults & name-calling, no longer applies. It is a new day.

Only establishment candidates are expected to follow normal rules like consistency, decorum, dignity and honesty.

That stuff is for RINOs and commies.
.

Decorum, dignity, and 'honesty' (oh my gawd, seriously?) are Professional Political Class criteria for washing out independent thinking candidates, and nothing more.

These drones go through years of learning how to say nothing of substance so that the press cant criticize them for offending anyone and voters cant hold them to breaking promises.

And so the press does one 'gotcha!' interview after another and the Political Establishment is left holding their dicks in their hands, crying, 'Why is the Donald Teflon?'

He is Teflon because most of us understand the bullshit game now and we want an effective President, not some ass kissing fraud who knows how to build his resume and tap dance around the press. We are not listening to the 'gotcha!' horse crap any more because all it has gotten us is one failure of a President after another for the last seven POTUS elections.

Isn't is possible to be both effective AND dignified, articulate and honest?

Am I really asking for that much?
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Isn't is possible to be both effective AND dignified, articulate and honest?

Am I really asking for that much?
.

And which of our last four Presidents has been dignified (lying with a straight face?), articulate (tossing around a lot of words most people dont understand), and honest (seriously? Was either Bush, Clinton or Obama an honest person in your mind?)

What you are asking for is a Political Professional who will actually serve the interests of the American people but is not like the American people, and who serves instead the interests of a corporate elite that mostly doesnt think of themselves as American any more but more as 'Global citizens', as Kerry assplained to everyone in his borderless future future commentary the other day.

This idea of an effective but dignified American President (that passes all the Professional Political Class criteria for POTUS) is a classic example of an oxymoron.

 

[Mac1958]

Isn't is possible to be both effective AND dignified, articulate and honest?

Am I really asking for that much?
.

And which of our last four Presidents has been dignified (lying with a straight face?), articulate (tossing around a lot of words most people dont understand), and honest (seriously? Was either Bush, Clinton or Obama an honest person in your mind?)

What you are asking for is a Political Professional who will actually serve the interests of the American people but is not like the American people, and who serves instead the interests of a corporate elite that mostly doesnt think of themselves as American any more but more as 'Global citizens', as Kerry assplained to everyone in his borderless future future commentary the other day.

This idea of an effective but dignified American President (that passes all the Professional Political Class criteria for POTUS) is a classic example of an oxymoron.

I think that Obama is intelligent and dignified. Honest? Maybe average for a politician. Before him, Bush Sr.

I'll hold out hope, but I realize I may be asking too much - our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the fuck out of politics. And that's our own fault.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I think that Obama is intelligent and dignified. Honest? Maybe average for a politician. Before him, Bush Sr.

Obama lied his ass off to become President. What in Gawds Sweet Name is dignified about that? Or intelligent? The mark of great intelligence is to be able to convince other people of the soundness of ones claims without resorting to lying to them or using fraudulent arguments to do so. Obama is intelligent the same way that Whitey Bulger was a great businessman, for crying out loud.

I'll hold out hope, but I realize I may be asking too much - our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the fuck out of politics. And that's our own fault.
.

You are waiting on a Great Unicorn to come flying in through the sky shitting Skittles for everyone.

The Political Class has redefined what 'dignified, honest and intelligent' mean so that we never again have an American President who puts the American People first.

Until you grasp that basic Truth none of this is going to make any sense to you.

 

[easyt65]

Why is it that after having constantly reversed her opinions on just about everything (depending on whose vote she needs at the time) the media and her apologists claim her opinions have 'evolved' but call Trump a flip-flopper. The hypocrisy is epic.

 

[Mac1958]

I think that Obama is intelligent and dignified. Honest? Maybe average for a politician. Before him, Bush Sr.

Obama lied his ass off to become President. What in Gawds Sweet Name is dignified about that? Or intelligent? The mark of great intelligence is to be able to convince other people of the soundness of ones claims without resorting to lying to them or using fraudulent arguments to do so. Obama is intelligent the same way that Whitey Bulger was a great businessman, for crying out loud.

I'll hold out hope, but I realize I may be asking too much - our REAL Best & Brightest know to stay the fuck out of politics. And that's our own fault.
.

You are waiting on a Great Unicorn to come flying in through the sky shitting Skittles for everyone.

The Political Class has redefined what 'dignified, honest and intelligent' mean so that we never again have an American President who puts the American People first.

Until you grasp that basic Truth none of this is going to make any sense to you.

I just don't view things through a partisan lens. While I disagree with Obama on some issues, his intelligence and dignity are not terribly difficult to recognize. The fact that I may disagree with him on something doesn't require me to project that onto everything else, such as his personal traits.

I think the GOP has long since - for some bizarre reason - decided that qualities like articulateness, intelligence and dignity are just this side of negatives, qualities for Democrats to own. Trump, Palin, Bush - this notion that being "plain-spoken" can (or even SHOULD) somehow replace intelligence, articulateness and dignity. I don't know what happened there, I don't know where this mindset came from, but I don't get it.

Certainly I agree that the political class has forced us to lower our standards, and here we are. I'll just hold out a tiny bit of hope that some kind of freak will appear - a person who can demonstrate the qualities above.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I just don't view things through a partisan lens.

But I do when I point out the failures of our last four Presidents, two of which were Republican? Damning the hypocrisy of the political establishments of BOTH parties makes me partisan?

Please explain that.

While I disagree with Obama on some issues, his intelligence and dignity are not terribly difficult to recognize. The fact that I may disagree with him on something doesn't require me to project that onto everything else, such as his personal traits.

Again, that depends on how you define 'intelligence' and 'dignity'.

Obama is glib, but that doesnt mean he is intelligent. Plenty of people can recite factoids without having the most shallow understanding of what they mean, and liberals and neocons demonstrate that fact daily right here at USMB.

If Obama were truly an intelligent person why does he resort to lying so often? One example of his lies is his promise that under his proposed ACA we could keep our doctors and/or our insurance if we liked them, and he KNEW this was not true when he said it. He won that debate by lying; is that the indicator of intelligence? Or dignity?

IF so then you use a definition of intelligence and dignity that I do not agree is valid as lying is a stupid tactic that ultimately backfires 100% of the time, given enough time, and and the willingness to repeatedly lie is the exact opposite of dignity as integrity is an intrinsic part of having dignity.

I think the GOP has long since - for some bizarre reason - decided that qualities like articulateness, intelligence and dignity are just this side of negatives, qualities for Democrats to own. Trump, Palin, Bush - this notion that being "plain-spoken" can (or even SHOULD) somehow replace intelligence, articulateness and dignity. I don't know what happened there, I don't know where this mindset came from, but I don't get it.

Apparently you have a different meaning for what these words mean than most of us do.

How is 'repeated lies' compatible with intelligence, or dignity? Glibness can be equated to 'articulate' but I prefer the old concept of articulate being 'rhetorical skills of persuasion using honest verifiable facts and reason', not the kind of bullshit the Bushes and Clinton and Obama have used. Not even close.

Certainly I agree that the political class has forced us to lower our standards, and here we are. I'll just hold out a tiny bit of hope that some kind of freak will appear - a person who can demonstrate the qualities above.
.

The qualities you ask for are incompatible with being an honest leader of the American people having integrity, and putting American interests first.

If you think that Bush 41, Clinton and Obama are examples of 'intelligence, dignity, and honesty' then I guess we need to try 'undignified honesty', 'stupid patriotism' and 'Trailer Trash Integrity' instead.

 

[Mac1958]

I just don't view things through a partisan lens.

But I do when I point out the failures of our last four Presidents, two of which were Republican? Damning the hypocrisy of the political establishments of BOTH parties makes me partisan?

Please explain that.

While I disagree with Obama on some issues, his intelligence and dignity are not terribly difficult to recognize. The fact that I may disagree with him on something doesn't require me to project that onto everything else, such as his personal traits.

Again, that depends on how you define 'intelligence' and 'dignity'.

Obama is glib, but that doesnt mean he is intelligent. Plenty of people can recite factoids without having the most shallow understanding of what they mean, and liberals and neocons demonstrate that fact daily right here at USMB.

If Obama were truly an intelligent person why does he resort to lying so often? One example of his lies is his promise that under his proposed ACA we could keep our doctors and/or our insurance if we liked them, and he KNEW this was not true when he said it. He won that debate by lying; is that the indicator of intelligence? Or dignity?

IF so then you use a definition of intelligence and dignity that I do not agree is valid as lying is a stupid tactic that ultimately backfires 100% of the time, given enough time, and and the willingness to repeatedly lie is the exact opposite of dignity as integrity is an intrinsic part of having dignity.

I think the GOP has long since - for some bizarre reason - decided that qualities like articulateness, intelligence and dignity are just this side of negatives, qualities for Democrats to own. Trump, Palin, Bush - this notion that being "plain-spoken" can (or even SHOULD) somehow replace intelligence, articulateness and dignity. I don't know what happened there, I don't know where this mindset came from, but I don't get it.

Apparently you have a different meaning for what these words mean than most of us do.

How is 'repeated lies' compatible with intelligence, or dignity? Glibness can be equated to 'articulate' but I prefer the old concept of articulate being 'rhetorical skills of persuasion using honest verifiable facts and reason', not the kind of bullshit the Bushes and Clinton and Obama have used. Not even close.

Certainly I agree that the political class has forced us to lower our standards, and here we are. I'll just hold out a tiny bit of hope that some kind of freak will appear - a person who can demonstrate the qualities above.
.

The qualities you ask for are incompatible with being an honest leader of the American people having integrity, and putting American interests first.

If you think that Bush 41, Clinton and Obama are examples of 'intelligence, dignity, and honesty' then I guess we need to try 'undignified honesty', 'stupid patriotism' and 'Trailer Trash Integrity' instead.

No, "damning the hypocrisy of the political establishments of BOTH parties" does not make you partisan, and of course that's not what I said. What I would say is that allowing partisan ideology to distort perceptions is a symptom of being a partisan. That's what I believe happens with partisans on both end of the spectrum with distressing consistency and regularity. One example would be the claim that Obama is not intelligent. Another would be the claim that Dubya didn't "care about black people", or that this politician is stupid or that that politician hates (pick your group) people.

It's almost as if (and this just occurred to me) partisans perceive things in caricature. Yeah, maybe that's the best way to put it.

To address your other main point: Intelligent and dignified people make the best liars, if that is their proclivity. So repeated lies and intelligence/dignity are mutually exclusive. I also hear that Obama can't be intelligent because "he's destroying America". Well, what he has actually accomplished, whether I agree with any part of this or not, is achieve the huge promise he made in 2007/2008: Fundamentally changing America, or at least clearly putting on that path.

We can wrestle about the definitions about intelligence and dignity, and clearly the GOP's definitions are different than mine, stipulated.
.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, "damning the hypocrisy of the political establishments of BOTH parties" does not make you partisan, and of course that's not what I said. What I would say is that allowing partisan ideology to distort perceptions is a symptom of being a partisan. That's what I believe happens with partisans on both end of the spectrum with distressing consistency and regularity. One example would be the claim that Obama is not intelligent.

Again, it depends on what you mean by intelligent. By my definition, Obama is not intelligent as he is not honest when he makes his arguments but uses flawed arguments and known lies to persuade people to his cause. Intelligent people dont have to do that because they believe that the Truth is on their side or else they would have adifferent opinon that coincided with what the Truth was.

Obama is glib, I will give you that, but he is not intelligent any more than a mafioso is a good businessman.

To address your other main point: Intelligent and dignified people make the best liars, if that is their proclivity. So repeated lies and intelligence/dignity are mutually exclusive.

I am guessing that you meant to say that they are NOT mutually exclusive?

I also hear that Obama can't be intelligent because "he's destroying America". Well, what he has actually accomplished, whether I agree with any part of this or not, is achieve the huge promise he made in 2007/2008: Fundamentally changing America, or at least clearly putting on that path.

They are making the trusting assumption that Obama is trying to build the country instead of destroying it from within.

I do not share that assumption so I do not use it as evidence of him being unintelligent. Obama's highest concern is to be politically correct and to promote a Marxist vision of what America should be. That is enough to explain his disastrous policies and why he continues to stick to them in the face of the data that shows they do not work.

We can wrestle about the definitions about intelligence and dignity, and clearly the GOP's definitions are different than mine, stipulated.
.

Not sure what 'wrestling' would accomplish. Either you think that integrity is a necessary part of intelligence and of dignity or you do not. These are axioms that cannot really be proven right or wrong. One either accepts them or does not.

But when most people say that they want a President who is 'honest, dignified and intelligent' they dont mean what you mean and for you to use those words to sell a candidate is at best 'sleight of hand'.

 

[paulitician]

He said he'd consider it. He hasn't taken a final stnce on it yet. So you angry greedy white Republican dudes can chill out. You're still getting away with shitting on American Workers.

 

[Siete]

Mr Trump will wind up adjusting his position on 95% of the statements he made to get the nomination, and keep his angry supporters ANGRY.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Mr Trump will wind up adjusting his position on 95% of the statements he made to get the nomination, and keep his angry supporters ANGRY.

Thats a good joke.

Anything serious to add to the thread?

 

[Fair&Balanced]

He said he'd consider it. He hasn't taken a final stnce on it yet. So you angry greedy white Republican dudes can chill out. You're still getting away with shitting on American Workers.

I still contend that it would be brilliant. It would either take the issue away from Hillary or force her to move so far left that no sane person could support her (what am I saying, no sane person would support her now)

 

[JimBowie1958]

He said he'd consider it. He hasn't taken a final stnce on it yet. So you angry greedy white Republican dudes can chill out. You're still getting away with shitting on American Workers.

I still contend that it would be brilliant. It would either take the issue away from Hillary or force her to move so far left that no sane person could support her (what am I saying, no sane person would support her now)

Why is saying that you havent made your mind up on a topic so shocking to you ideological types?

 

[paulitician]

He said he'd consider it. He hasn't taken a final stnce on it yet. So you angry greedy white Republican dudes can chill out. You're still getting away with shitting on American Workers.

I still contend that it would be brilliant. It would either take the issue away from Hillary or force her to move so far left that no sane person could support her (what am I saying, no sane person would support her now)

Good point. I like the fact Trump's considering supporting it. He's really standing up for American Workers. He has my full support.

 

[Fair&Balanced]

He said he'd consider it. He hasn't taken a final stnce on it yet. So you angry greedy white Republican dudes can chill out. You're still getting away with shitting on American Workers.

I still contend that it would be brilliant. It would either take the issue away from Hillary or force her to move so far left that no sane person could support her (what am I saying, no sane person would support her now)

Why is saying that you havent made your mind up on a topic so shocking to you ideological types?

Ideological? LOL I'm the complete opposite of ideological. Well, unless supporting freedom is an ideology.