Flashback.....President Apostate?

[Stephanie]

May 12, 2008


SNIP:
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAKChevy Chase, Md.

BARACK OBAMA has emerged as a classic example of charismatic leadership — a figure upon whom others project their own hopes and desires. The resulting emotional intensity adds greatly to the more conventional strengths of the well-organized Obama campaign, and it has certainly sufficed to overcome the formidable initial advantages of Senator Hillary Clinton.

One danger of such charisma, however, is that it can evoke unrealistic hopes of what a candidate could actually accomplish in office regardless of his own personal abilities. Case in point is the oft-made claim that an Obama presidency would be welcomed by the Muslim world.

This idea often goes hand in hand with the altogether more plausible argument that Mr. Obama’s election would raise America’s esteem in Africa — indeed, he already arouses much enthusiasm in his father’s native Kenya and to a degree elsewhere on the continent.

But it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.

Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.

His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).

read it all here.
The New York Times > Log In

 

[Kalam]

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.

Everybody is born a Muslim. If you aren't raised as a Muslim, you can't be held accountable for leaving Islam. If you're going to insist that Obama is guilty of apostasy, you must accept that you are as well.

 

[theHawk]

Everybody is born a Muslim. If you aren't raised as a Muslim, you can't be held accountable for leaving Islam. If you're going to insist that Obama is guilty of apostasy, you must accept that you are as well.

LOL.

And by the way, if Obama was given a Muslim name and went to a Muslim school, wouldn't that at least suggest he might had been brought up as a Muslim?

 

[Kalam]

Everybody is born a Muslim. If you aren't raised as a Muslim, you can't be held accountable for leaving Islam. If you're going to insist that Obama is guilty of apostasy, you must accept that you are as well.

LOL.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying, "No babe is born but upon Fitra. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." - Sahih Muslim, Destiny, no. 6426​

And by the way, if Obama was given a Muslim name and went to a Muslim school, wouldn't that at least suggest he might had been brought up as a Muslim?

Considering his father became an atheist before meeting his mother, I'm afraid the answer is no.

 

[theHawk]

Everybody is born a Muslim. If you aren't raised as a Muslim, you can't be held accountable for leaving Islam. If you're going to insist that Obama is guilty of apostasy, you must accept that you are as well.

LOL.

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger as saying, "No babe is born but upon Fitra. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." - Sahih Muslim, Destiny, no. 6426​

And by the way, if Obama was given a Muslim name and went to a Muslim school, wouldn't that at least suggest he might had been brought up as a Muslim?

Considering his father became an atheist before meeting his mother, I'm afraid the answer is no.

^^so just because the pedophile false-prophet says so.....

Allegedly atheist. Why would he give his son a Muslim name? Not that it really matters, he did attend a Muslim school as a child.

And have you forgotten the "my muslim faith" slip?

 

[Kalam]

^^so just because the pedophile false-prophet says so.....

Time out. You're using "Islamic law" as the basis for your claim that Obama is a Muslim, so why are you getting sand in your vagina when I point out what Islam actually says? I'm not telling you that you have to believe it, moron.

Allegedly atheist. Why would he give his son a Muslim name?

Because it was his name, for fuck's sake. Jesus you people are dense.

Not that it really matters, he did attend a Muslim school as a child.

Oh?

Do you mean this one or the one named after St. Francis of Assisi?

And have you forgotten the "my muslim faith" slip?

Well gosh, that obviously makes him a Muslim.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hmmmm...... So we have here some Obama haters claiming that our President has no right to choose his own religion. And why should the founder of Islam be any more false than any other 'prophet'?

 

[theHawk]

^^so just because the pedophile false-prophet says so.....

Time out. You're using "Islamic law" as the basis for your claim that Obama is a Muslim, so why are you getting sand in your vagina when I point out what Islam actually says? I'm not telling you that you have to believe it, moron.

I never claimed that he is a Muslim, "moron."

Not that it really matters, he did attend a Muslim school as a child.

Oh?

Do you mean this one or the one named after St. Francis of Assisi?

And have you forgotten the "my muslim faith" slip?

Well gosh, that obviously makes him a Muslim.

No, it doesn't "obviously" make him a Muslim. But it does allow for people to question his religious background and beliefs though, since they are so obscure.

He claimed to sit in Rev. Wrights church for twenty years yet says he never heard of any of the typical anti-American rants Wright made. So he is either lying about being there for 20 years or he was there and is lying about not knowing of the radical viewpoints of his own minister, whom he claimed was like an uncle.

Everything with this schmuck is smoke 'n mirrors. Nothing he says can be trusted, since he clearly cannot be honest about who he really is to the public. And yet the liberals and media cannot understand why there are people out there who question what his real faith is. You have to earn credibility, trust, and respect from people through your actions, and this President has not been able to do that.

Personally, I think he is most likely an atheist, like most far left radicals. He believes in the superiority of himself and I doubt he could ever love anyone more than himself. He simply has to pretend to be a Christian just to get votes.

 

[Kalam]

^^so just because the pedophile false-prophet says so.....

Time out. You're using "Islamic law" as the basis for your claim that Obama is a Muslim, so why are you getting sand in your vagina when I point out what Islam actually says? I'm not telling you that you have to believe it, moron.

I never claimed that he is a Muslim, "moron."

Oh?

Do you mean this one or the one named after St. Francis of Assisi?

And have you forgotten the "my muslim faith" slip?

Well gosh, that obviously makes him a Muslim.

No, it doesn't "obviously" make him a Muslim. But it does allow for people to question his religious background and beliefs though, since they are so obscure.

He claimed to sit in Rev. Wrights church for twenty years yet says he never heard of any of the typical anti-American rants Wright made. So he is either lying about being there for 20 years or he was there and is lying about not knowing of the radical viewpoints of his own minister, whom he claimed was like an uncle.

Everything with this schmuck is smoke 'n mirrors. Nothing he says can be trusted, since he clearly cannot be honest about who he really is to the public. And yet the liberals and media cannot understand why there are people out there who question what his real faith is. You have to earn credibility, trust, and respect from people through your actions, and this President has not been able to do that.

Personally, I think he is most likely an atheist, like most far left radicals. He believes in the superiority of himself and I doubt he could ever love anyone more than himself. He simply has to pretend to be a Christian just to get votes.

There's no point in us arguing, then. He's not a Muslim, but he is a total douchebag.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hawk, given the actions I see by most claiming Christianity, I would say that your description of President Obama's supposed religious views fits most Christians, and you, also.

 

[The T]

Isn't it interesting that Obama has to send out his mouthpieces to reinterate his "faith" when his actions speak otherwise?

If Obama is a Christian...then to most people? It isn't obvious.

 

[Greenbeard]

If Obama is a Christian...then to most people? It isn't obvious.

So?

 

[Mr Natural]

Who gives a shit what religion he is?

It's all just a bunch of made up rules and nonsense anyway.

 

[theHawk]

Who gives a shit what religion he is?

It's all just a bunch of made up rules and nonsense anyway.

Then why is the White House and the media going out of its way to try to convince everyone that he isn't a muslim?

Obviously a vast majority of the country "gives a shit" about the faith and religious beliefs of their President.

Do you think the Hussein or anyone else for that matter would have a chance in hell of getting elected if he had said religion is "a bunch of made up rules and nonesense anyway"?

 

[The T]

Who gives a shit what religion he is?

It's all just a bunch of made up rules and nonsense anyway.

Yeah whom gives a shit what he is OR DOES...RIGHT?

Doesn't matter that he has no core values...and he will continue to act outside the Constitution and steal more Liberty away from all of us..and I'll BET that just tickles your Fat Dumb Bald head just fine, right?

You sir ARE, and always WILL BE a Fucking MORON.

 

[Charles_Main]

^^so just because the pedophile false-prophet says so.....

Time out. You're using "Islamic law" as the basis for your claim that Obama is a Muslim, so why are you getting sand in your vagina when I point out what Islam actually says? I'm not telling you that you have to believe it, moron.

Allegedly atheist. Why would he give his son a Muslim name?

Because it was his name, for fuck's sake. Jesus you people are dense.

Not that it really matters, he did attend a Muslim school as a child.

Oh?

Do you mean this one or the one named after St. Francis of Assisi?

And have you forgotten the "my muslim faith" slip?

Well gosh, that obviously makes him a Muslim.

Because it was his name? he is not talking about his last name. Obama's first name is a Muslim name, actually comes from an Arabic word.

oh and the fact that he once let slip out "my Muslim Faith" Means nothing at all.

LOL

 

[Kalam]

Because it was his name? he is not talking about his last name.

Neither am I. Barack Hussein Obama is the son of Barack Hussein Obama, Sr.

Obama's first name is a Muslim name, actually comes from an Arabic word.

"Barack" is not a Muslim name and appears in multiple Semitic languages, including Hebrew.

oh and the fact that he once let slip out "my Muslim Faith" Means nothing at all.

LOL

Why don't you tell us what it means?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

May 12, 2008


SNIP:
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAKChevy Chase, Md.

BARACK OBAMA has emerged as a classic example of charismatic leadership — a figure upon whom others project their own hopes and desires. The resulting emotional intensity adds greatly to the more conventional strengths of the well-organized Obama campaign, and it has certainly sufficed to overcome the formidable initial advantages of Senator Hillary Clinton.

One danger of such charisma, however, is that it can evoke unrealistic hopes of what a candidate could actually accomplish in office regardless of his own personal abilities. Case in point is the oft-made claim that an Obama presidency would be welcomed by the Muslim world.

This idea often goes hand in hand with the altogether more plausible argument that Mr. Obama’s election would raise America’s esteem in Africa — indeed, he already arouses much enthusiasm in his father’s native Kenya and to a degree elsewhere on the continent.

But it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.

Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.

His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).

read it all here.
The New York Times > Log In

You know the Times printed a retraction of this?

After it was pointed out that it actually was NOT true, according to experts in Islamic law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01pubed.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&ref=opinion

 

[The T]

May 12, 2008


SNIP:
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAKChevy Chase, Md.

BARACK OBAMA has emerged as a classic example of charismatic leadership — a figure upon whom others project their own hopes and desires. The resulting emotional intensity adds greatly to the more conventional strengths of the well-organized Obama campaign, and it has certainly sufficed to overcome the formidable initial advantages of Senator Hillary Clinton.

One danger of such charisma, however, is that it can evoke unrealistic hopes of what a candidate could actually accomplish in office regardless of his own personal abilities. Case in point is the oft-made claim that an Obama presidency would be welcomed by the Muslim world.

This idea often goes hand in hand with the altogether more plausible argument that Mr. Obama’s election would raise America’s esteem in Africa — indeed, he already arouses much enthusiasm in his father’s native Kenya and to a degree elsewhere on the continent.

But it is a mistake to conflate his African identity with his Muslim heritage. Senator Obama is half African by birth and Africans can understandably identify with him. In Islam, however, there is no such thing as a half-Muslim. Like all monotheistic religions, Islam is an exclusive faith.

As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother’s Christian background is irrelevant.

Of course, as most Americans understand it, Senator Obama is not a Muslim. He chose to become a Christian, and indeed has written convincingly to explain how he arrived at his choice and how important his Christian faith is to him.

His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is “irtidad” or “ridda,” usually translated from the Arabic as “apostasy,” but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim’s family may choose to forgive).

read it all here.
The New York Times > Log In

You know the Times printed a retraction of this?

After it was pointed out that it actually was NOT true, according to experts in Islamic law.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/opinion/01pubed.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&ref=opinion

So why did they 'Jump The Shark' by what they did? Kinda lends creedence to why they are on the downturn. And well deserved I might add.

NYT is a shell of it's former self...and I heartily await their demise.

 

[bodecea]

Isn't it interesting that Obama has to send out his mouthpieces to reinterate his "faith" when his actions speak otherwise?

If Obama is a Christian...then to most people? It isn't obvious.

If we strictly look to people's actions based on what WE want or don't want from them to determine their true religion.....NOBODY's a Christian.