Fla. doc's sign warns off Obama supporters

[Ame®icano]

Does he have the right to break his CODE OF ETHICS for his profession?

Does he have the right to take tax payer's money for his education and then not serve tax payers?

Does he have a right to not serve a black person just because he is black?
Where are his rights on that one Avatar?

Few questions for you C4A.

Did he took taxpayers money for his education?
don't know if he did or didn't, but IF he did....

Is he sign saying he's not taking black people?

No, not the point.... but as a business owner, since his rights seem to only matter to some....does he have this "right" to turn them down because they are black and does that right to his own opinion, give him the right to discriminate, because his rights superceed the rights of others?

No new patients are coming to this guy's door, the sign was for patients he ALREADY ACCEPTED as patients...

coming to his office for their SCHEDULED health care visit with them...he has put a sign on his door that is pretty intimidating and downright crazy, for his own patients, who may differ with his political view to see...does he have the right to impose his political views on to his existing patients when they are paying him for only his Medical treatment and care?

I don't think he should...I believe it is unethical and against his oath and code of ethics.....that's what I am saying.

@ underlined

Where does the sign says he's turning anyone because they are black?

You keep implying something that doesn't exist.

 

[Dutch]

These Doctors are the true heros of their profession, not that A-hole at the start of the thread.

"Is it more important to pay the rent or pay the health insurance premium? Buy food for the family or life-saving medications? Those are choices many Cleveland residents have to make every day. Because most health care facilities see the uninsured as a liability they can do without. So they are discarded. By the thousands. But we at The Free Clinic see them as friends, family and neighbors. And we do whatever we can to help. Because sudden layoffs happen. Because unexpected illnesses happen. So now the woman with flu symptoms can go to the doctor. The man with depression can receive counseling and treatment. The elderly widow down the street can get her medications. And that’s something special to hold on to."
http://www.thefreeclinic.org/

 

[Care4all]

Few questions for you C4A.

Did he took taxpayers money for his education?
don't know if he did or didn't, but IF he did....

Is he sign saying he's not taking black people?

No, not the point.... but as a business owner, since his rights seem to only matter to some....does he have this "right" to turn them down because they are black and does that right to his own opinion, give him the right to discriminate, because his rights superceed the rights of others?

No new patients are coming to this guy's door, the sign was for patients he ALREADY ACCEPTED as patients...

coming to his office for their SCHEDULED health care visit with them...he has put a sign on his door that is pretty intimidating and downright crazy, for his own patients, who may differ with his political view to see...does he have the right to impose his political views on to his existing patients when they are paying him for only his Medical treatment and care?

I don't think he should...I believe it is unethical and against his oath and code of ethics.....that's what I am saying.

@ underlined

Where does the sign says he's turning anyone because they are black?

You keep implying something that doesn't exist.

AS I said,, the question I am asking is:

DOES his or ANY DOCOTR'S rights trump the rights of others, as EXAMPLE, can he turn down a black person because he is black, JUST BECAUSE of his supposed 'right' to choose the patients he wants to care for, as his own business owner?

If not, why not?

I am NOT saying he did do this, but could he do this because of his right to make his own business decisions as an owner?

If you don't like Black as an example, use Christian.

 

[Immanuel]

No, not the point.... but as a business owner, since his rights seem to only matter to some....does he have this "right" to turn them down because they are black and does that right to his own opinion, give him the right to discriminate, because his rights superceed the rights of others?

No new patients are coming to this guy's door, the sign was for patients he ALREADY ACCEPTED as patients...

coming to his office for their SCHEDULED health care visit with them...he has put a sign on his door that is pretty intimidating and downright crazy, for his own patients, who may differ with his political view to see...does he have the right to impose his political views on to his existing patients when they are paying him for only his Medical treatment and care?

I don't think he should...I believe it is unethical and against his oath and code of ethics.....that's what I am saying.

@ underlined

Where does the sign says he's turning anyone because they are black?

You keep implying something that doesn't exist.

AS I said,, the question I am asking is:

DOES his or ANY DOCOTR'S rights trump the rights of others, as EXAMPLE, can he turn down a black person because he is black, JUST BECAUSE of his supposed 'right' to choose the patients he wants to care for, as his own business owner?

If not, why not?

I am NOT saying he did do this, but could he do this because of his right to make his own business decisions as an owner?

If you don't like Black as an example, use Christian.

Already addressed (and ignored or not seen) in post #73.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

@ underlined

Where does the sign says he's turning anyone because they are black?

You keep implying something that doesn't exist.

AS I said,, the question I am asking is:

DOES his or ANY DOCOTR'S rights trump the rights of others, as EXAMPLE, can he turn down a black person because he is black, JUST BECAUSE of his supposed 'right' to choose the patients he wants to care for, as his own business owner?

If not, why not?

I am NOT saying he did do this, but could he do this because of his right to make his own business decisions as an owner?

If you don't like Black as an example, use Christian.

Already addressed (and ignored or not seen) in post #73.

Immie

not seen!

 

[Care4all]

Few questions for you C4A.

Did he took taxpayers money for his education?
don't know if he did or didn't, but IF he did....

Is he sign saying he's not taking black people?

No, not the point.... but as a business owner, since his rights seem to only matter to some....does he have this "right" to turn them down because they are black and does that right to his own opinion, give him the right to discriminate, because his rights superceed the rights of others?

No new patients are coming to this guy's door, the sign was for patients he ALREADY ACCEPTED as patients...

coming to his office for their SCHEDULED health care visit with them...he has put a sign on his door that is pretty intimidating and downright crazy, for his own patients, who may differ with his political view to see...does he have the right to impose his political views on to his existing patients when they are paying him for only his Medical treatment and care?

I don't think he should...I believe it is unethical and against his oath and code of ethics.....that's what I am saying.

Forgive me, but it seems to me that you believe he should be enslaved rather than free to perform services that he spent many years perfecting.

Your point about serving black people is a valid point and one that should not be ignored. We have laws in this country protecting against discrimination on the basis of race, sex, religion etc. That does not mean that business owners must provide services to EVERYONE. As long as they are not found to be discriminating based upon one of the protected classes they are not breaking the law. They may be immoral for their discrimination, but they are breaking no laws.

Immie

I was wondering....do we only have rights that are listed or put in to legislation or do we, as humans have others rights, enumerable rights not listed by the constitution?

And doesn't IMMORAL = UNETHICAL?

So, tell me...WHY those specific categories of discrimination that is against the law, does not infringe on his rights?

And if you think they do not infringe on his rights as a business owner, why not?

Hopefully, the Board responsible for Doctors and their code of ethics, does something to this abnormal dude for breaking their code of ethics he supposedly subscribed to...

 

[Immanuel]

No, not the point.... but as a business owner, since his rights seem to only matter to some....does he have this "right" to turn them down because they are black and does that right to his own opinion, give him the right to discriminate, because his rights superceed the rights of others?

No new patients are coming to this guy's door, the sign was for patients he ALREADY ACCEPTED as patients...

coming to his office for their SCHEDULED health care visit with them...he has put a sign on his door that is pretty intimidating and downright crazy, for his own patients, who may differ with his political view to see...does he have the right to impose his political views on to his existing patients when they are paying him for only his Medical treatment and care?

I don't think he should...I believe it is unethical and against his oath and code of ethics.....that's what I am saying.

Forgive me, but it seems to me that you believe he should be enslaved rather than free to perform services that he spent many years perfecting.

Your point about serving black people is a valid point and one that should not be ignored. We have laws in this country protecting against discrimination on the basis of race, sex, religion etc. That does not mean that business owners must provide services to EVERYONE. As long as they are not found to be discriminating based upon one of the protected classes they are not breaking the law. They may be immoral for their discrimination, but they are breaking no laws.

Immie

I was wondering....do we only have rights that are listed or put in to legislation or do we, as humans have others rights, enumerable rights not listed by the constitution?

And doesn't IMMORAL = UNETHICAL?

So, tell me...WHY those specific categories of discrimination that is against the law, does not infringe on his rights?

And if you think they do not infringe on his rights as a business owner, why not?

Hopefully, the Board responsible for Doctors and their code of ethics, does something to this abnormal dude for breaking their code of ethics he supposedly subscribed to...

Why those specific categories? Because we as a nation have decided that we will not tolerate discrimination based on those categories. I happen to believe that is a good decision.

Does that infringe on his (more specifically our) rights? Yes, it does. However, we have chosen to make discrimination based upon race, creed, sex etc. illegal. We have not chosen to make discrimination based upon voting tendencies illegal, and quite honestly, I think that is going a bit too far!

As a society, we have laws that we all agree to live by. Living by those laws means that even though it is my "right" to do something as a member of this society, I agree to obey the limits placed by that society. So, even though, technically I have the right not to do business with certain people, I accept that the law of this society says choosing not to do business with women breaks the laws of that society. I don't have to agree with those laws, but I have to comply.

To date, we have not made it a law, that I have to sell my services to people who voted for President Obama. I pray we never get that far into ridiculousness.

Your comment about hoping he is sanctioned for not complying to what you believe should be law is unwarranted.

You used to sell shoes. Let's pretend you still did. Let's also pretend that President Obama wanted to take over the retail shoe industry and the fashion industry. He makes a law stating that you can only sell a certain brand of shoes i.e. Reebok (he owns stock in Reebok) and that you must sell all product at the price that he tells you to sell it, which is below your cost, but you are a distributor of Reebok as well as ADIDAS shoes. In fact, two thirds of your inventory is ADIDAS shoes. You being the savy business woman you are, are a little angry that the President has interfered in your business and you say, screw that, I'm not selling to anyone that voted for that idiot. Would you have that right?

Now, granted, the medical profession has ethical considerations, but as I said in other posts here which you probably didn't read either, it does not say that he turned anyone away. He simply makes a political statement telling those who voted for Obama to go elsewhere.

And, he has not done so in an hysterical manner as you accused him of doing either. Have you seen him ranting and raving on tv?

Immie

 

[rikules]

Unethical or a sign of things to come?

Fla. doc's sign warns off Obama supporters - Health care- msnbc.com

"Unethical or a sign of things to come?"


both
unethical AND a sign of things to come.




part of the Hippocratic Oath (Modern Version)

"I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to ALL my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help."


this guy is in violation of the oath


if a liberal doctor did this every con in the country would cry FOUL and want his license revoked


but they APPROVE of his RIGHT to do this when it's a deranged con

 

[Immanuel]

if a liberal doctor did this every con in the country would cry FOUL and want his license revoked


but they APPROVE of his RIGHT to do this when it's a deranged con

Sorry, but that is completely incorrect and a fabrication on your part. I for one would not cry foul. I would not approve of it in the same way that I do not approve of this doctor's choice, but I would not be whining as many here are doing.

I'm sure there would be some conservatives who complained about it, even cried foul, but just as there are some libs here who haven't bitched about it, there would be conservatives who ignored it as well.

Immie

 

[Foxfyre]

its funny how gop likes to deny healthcare for people. you people should be ashamed on yourself.

Who has denied healthcare to anyone? Why should someone be forced to work for someone they don't want to?

I would agree with Care that the quality of care that doctor provide should not be influenced by a person's religion, politics, or personal philosophy. But doctors, any more than any other profession, should not be required to provide services for free.

Doctors provide a marketable service and, in a free society, doctors should not be expected to, and certainly should not be forced to, work for wages arbitrarily mandated by the government. So, if the doctor's fee is "A", and the government or private insurance wants to pay "B" which is substantially less, why should the doctor have to reduce his fee to the point that he has to lay off staff or reduce services?

He is honorably advising his patients of what his fee is, and it will be up to them whether they wish to pay the difference.

And the government should not be makiing that decision for the patients either.

Most communities do organize and support free clinics or hospitals for the truly indigent and that is a humane and good thing to do. But those who can pay, even if they have to pay it out over a long period of time, should pay for their own insurance and healthcare.

Having said that, if that sign is for real, I do find it offensive posted on a medical doctor's door.

 

[code1211]

his right to what avatar?

A doctor who runs his own practice is also a business person. As a business person, he may want to receive a certain amount of money for his services rendered to those who choose to hire him.

The new provisions for health insurance will redefine that arrangement. If he does not agree with the terms of the redefinition, he has the right to say so.

Absent the redefinition, though, he should be able to charge whatever he wants. If it's too high, he should go out of business. If it's excessively high and yet he retains customers, the customers have determined that his service is worthy.

Under the new definitions, worthiness will play no role driving the practice of medicine into a regulated to a lower level state of being.

There is nothing wrong with Walmart, but occassionally, I like to walk through Macy's. If I'm feeling particularly uppity, Von Maur. Love that live piano music.

And what is the purpose for him to put the sign on the door and essentially SPIT in his own patient's faces? What do his patients now, have to do with Obamacare? What right does he have to bring politics in to his medical practice and his one on one care with his patients?

He deserves to LOSE HIS LICENSE, he is NOT mentally sound to put a sign like that on his door for his own patients to read....they have a RIGHT to receive the medical care they have paid this doctor for WITHOUT his political leanings and dismay becoming a part of it.

I think that licensing is based on the results of the practice, not on the political beliefs of the practitioner.

Why do they have a right to recieve anything from any human being without also recieving a referance to political beliefs? If they find anything in the treatment to be objectionable, they have the RIGHT to choose a different provider. Same as a buying a car or a disposable diaper.

It could be that he hopes to open a dialogue with people on his read of the law based on his understanding through professional organizations or his accountant or his understanding of the subsidized payment changes.

In my contacts with people, I often try to find out how they feel about things. In this particular case, I feel that the doctor, acting a businessman, is an idiot, but that doesn't address whether or not he has the right to make a political statement in his own place of business.

To my way of thinking, if you want to give me your money, I agree with your motivation to do so. He apparently thinks that some people have money that isn't as green as others. Stupid. Not illegal or immoral. Just stupid.

 

[Ravi]

Where does it say he accepted medicare and medicaid patents?

Dr. Jack Cassell, MD, Urology, located in Mount Dora, FL - Free reports and ratings

I wonder if he got student loans for college or med school.

That would be relevant only if he get them and then didn't pay them back.

Except it would make him look like a hypocrite. Well, more of one.

 

[Care4all]

if a liberal doctor did this every con in the country would cry FOUL and want his license revoked


but they APPROVE of his RIGHT to do this when it's a deranged con

Sorry, but that is completely incorrect and a fabrication on your part. I for one would not cry foul. I would not approve of it in the same way that I do not approve of this doctor's choice, but I would not be whining as many here are doing.

I'm sure there would be some conservatives who complained about it, even cried foul, but just as there are some libs here who haven't bitched about it, there would be conservatives who ignored it as well.

Immie

I am not bitching about it because I am a Liberal or because I am a Conservative....my bitch, is that it is unethical....AS the oath, the Doctor TOOK says.

I am voicing my opinion on it immie, as you are....if you call that whining then welcome to the club!

 

[Immanuel]

if a liberal doctor did this every con in the country would cry FOUL and want his license revoked


but they APPROVE of his RIGHT to do this when it's a deranged con

Sorry, but that is completely incorrect and a fabrication on your part. I for one would not cry foul. I would not approve of it in the same way that I do not approve of this doctor's choice, but I would not be whining as many here are doing.

I'm sure there would be some conservatives who complained about it, even cried foul, but just as there are some libs here who haven't bitched about it, there would be conservatives who ignored it as well.

Immie

I am not bitching about it because I am a Liberal or because I am a Conservative....my bitch, is that it is unethical....AS the oath, the Doctor TOOK says.

I am voicing my opinion on it immie, as you are....if you call that whining then welcome to the club!

That's funny... did I mention you by name? Hmmmm... guilty conscience?

Immie

 

[Defiant1]

Where does it say he accepted medicare and medicaid patents?

Dr. Jack Cassell, MD, Urology, located in Mount Dora, FL - Free reports and ratings

I wonder if he got student loans for college or med school.

The government owns him forever, then.

No, liberals are the only ones that think they own other people, their money, and their things.

 

[Care4all]

Sorry, but that is completely incorrect and a fabrication on your part. I for one would not cry foul. I would not approve of it in the same way that I do not approve of this doctor's choice, but I would not be whining as many here are doing.

I'm sure there would be some conservatives who complained about it, even cried foul, but just as there are some libs here who haven't bitched about it, there would be conservatives who ignored it as well.

Immie

I am not bitching about it because I am a Liberal or because I am a Conservative....my bitch, is that it is unethical....AS the oath, the Doctor TOOK says.

I am voicing my opinion on it immie, as you are....if you call that whining then welcome to the club!

That's funny... did I mention you by name? Hmmmm... guilty conscience?

Immie

nope, but you specifically noted Libs/conservatives in your post!

Do you believe the Doctor broke his oath or not? Just want that to be clear before we continue this debate....

 

[Modbert]

So how far does this go when it comes to doctors not treating people due to political ideology?

Hopefully no one ends up dying due to this bullshit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you believe the Doctor broke his oath or not? Just want that to be clear before we continue this debate....

While I do think the sign offensive and inappropriate on a physician's door, I suspect it is more an expression and anger at the healthcare legislation that almost no doctors that I know of are approving.

The doctor breaks his oath ONLY if he actually follows through, asks patients their political views, and turns away any who supported Obama.

I think that scenario is very unlikely.

 

[Immanuel]

I am not bitching about it because I am a Liberal or because I am a Conservative....my bitch, is that it is unethical....AS the oath, the Doctor TOOK says.

I am voicing my opinion on it immie, as you are....if you call that whining then welcome to the club!

That's funny... did I mention you by name? Hmmmm... guilty conscience?

Immie

nope, but you specifically noted Libs/conservatives in your post!

Do you believe the Doctor broke his oath or not? Just want that to be clear before we continue this debate....

I only noted "libs/conservatvies" because Rikules indicated that ALL conservatives would whine about the situation, which I personally believe to be an incorrect statement.

I think the question as to whether or not he broke his oath is an opinion that can be left open for discussion.

First, we have to know the facts. Did he refuse service to anyone who came to him? By that I mean, if a person who voted for Obama came in and identified himself as a supporter of Obama, did he refuse service?

Before I can answer your question, I have to know the answer to that. Because simply posting a sign saying that Obama voters should go elsewhere is not in my opinion a violation of his oath. If he turned such people away, then I might be able to agree with you.

Immie

 

[Care4all]

That's funny... did I mention you by name? Hmmmm... guilty conscience?

Immie

nope, but you specifically noted Libs/conservatives in your post!

Do you believe the Doctor broke his oath or not? Just want that to be clear before we continue this debate....

I only noted "libs/conservatvies" because Rikules indicated that ALL conservatives would whine about the situation, which I personally believe to be an incorrect statement.

I think the question as to whether or not he broke his oath is an opinion that can be left open for discussion.

First, we have to know the facts. Did he refuse service to anyone who came to him? By that I mean, if a person who voted for Obama came in and identified himself as a supporter of Obama, did he refuse service?

Before I can answer your question, I have to know the answer to that. Because simply posting a sign saying that Obama voters should go elsewhere is not in my opinion a violation of his oath. If he turned such people away, then I might be able to agree with you.

Immie

first and foremost,

WE HAVE A SECRET BALLOT in this country....it is NONE of this Doctor's business one way or the other, regarding this kind of information.

second,

did you read the article in full?

third

What do you suppose the purpose of the doctor's sign in his patient lobby door was and how does it relate to the care his patients have been PAYING for??


the article said that one patient complained and one of his patients walked out, i am presuming this is for just the one day the news crew was there....