Five Key Reasons to Reject Class-Warfare Tax Policy

[georgephillip]

Thank you for proving me right.

The left OBSESSES about other people's money. And they concoct conspiracy theories as to why that money really belongs to them, er I mean "the people."

They preach about "greed," while at the same time ranting about any money out there that isn't in THEIR greedy fingers.

Thanks to the nearly $13 trillion worth of bailouts and loan guarantees provided to Wall Street (remember?) the richest 2% of Americans have nearly doubled their share of returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rents and capital gains) in less than one generation.

This is not an accident.

It's class war, and you are too brainwashed by your political ideology to care.

Which makes you a slave.

Smite that.

I hate to break it to you but OBAMA VOTED FOR TARP.

Then he tripled down on that when he did the Stimulus.

You want to see how much of that went to bail out rich unions?????

Why are you whining at me. I wasn't for Tarp or the Stimulus.

I'm for FREE MARKETS. People keeping more of what they earn.

But HOW is RAISING TAXES going to fix the problems behind the bailouts???

That doesn't even make sense.

The answer to that is to put into office CONSERVATIVES against bailouts. You certainly aren't going to get that with Democrats. You want to look at the voting record of Democrats on both Tarp and the Stimulus?

You're not likely to find conservatives or progressives in either the Republican OR Democratic party willing to vote against Wall Street.

Republicans AND Democrats in DC chose to borrow the money for the bailouts from rich individuals and corporations (and China) instead of taxing the rich individuals and corporations in this country.

That's because Republicans AND Democrats depend on the richest 1% of Americans to fund their campaigns, and the richest 1% of Americans depend on the stock market to fund their lifestyles.

"The political axiom at work is 'Big fish eat little fish.'

"There’s not enough tax money to continue swelling the fortunes of the super-rich pretending to save enough to pay the pensions and related social support that North American and European employees have been promised.

"Something must give – and the rich have shown themselves sufficiently foresighted to seize the initiative."

Michael Hudson: Obama's Greatest Betrayal

 

[NYcarbineer]

The sad irony here is that the OP, who I can assure isn't making shit for income, in the big picture,

is shilling for the Rich to get more tax breaks that will be paid for by HER having to pay more or get less.

 

[georgephillip]

Let's just eat the rich!
YouTube - Bill Whittle - Let's Just Eat the Rich!

It is truly amazing that some people think there is a nasty plot to deprive them of their rightful money. NEver mind they never worked, or worked at menial jobs for 20 years. It's theirs, dammit. ANd they want gummint to take it for them.
They are the useful idiots of big governnment leftists.

How did 1% of Americans come to possess 40% of US wealth?

A nasty plot(s) to deprive other Americans of their rightful money?

Boy Georage, of course you can never understand that people worked for their money, since you have fully admitted you never made more than mimimum wage and have live the life of a dirt poor loser! Your a bottom feeding socialist that wants everyone to take of you. Why the fuck would anyone take a poverty case like you seriously?

Have you stopped beating your dog yet?

Any thoughts on why fourth quarter profits at US businesses were up 29.2%? Do you see the connection between Wall Street's recovery and the 10 million American families who will have lost their homes by the end of this year?

How about the $5.6 trillion in home equity wiped out by all those hard-working Wall Street types.

When will boot-licking slaves like you begin to connect the dots between the scams that made/make Wall Street rich and the big rise in federal debt you punks never stop whining about?

Loser.

 

[Mr Liberty]

How did 1% get all the wealth. That's the elite class, Billionares. Most of that is old money.
most of the wealth comes from realestate. And inside information. And scamming people.
And yes there is always fame. But most people just plug along. There was a time not to long ago when you put money in the bank, you were given a fair return, not today, Today you make money by investing overseas, that's where all of our wealth has gone......... Or you can do like my ancestors in the old days and steal it. Good luck with that one. Start an escort service.

Two thirds are self made billionaires. Gates--Microsoft/ Buffett--Investments. How did they scam you?

link?

This link is the world Billionaires: Rags To Riches Billionaires - Forbes.com

This one is The Forbes 400 wealthiest Americans: The Richest People in America 2010 - Forbes.com

Have fun

 

[mnbasketball]

Wow imagine this, someone from Cato giving you the truth as they believe it to be or I should say as they want you to believe.

There is not a rich person in this country that is being hurt by taxes. Not one thing that they have had to go without because of the need for paying taxes.

The problem comes when the rich who make up 2 % of our population try to capture the next 30% of the population as being part of their group. The top 2% gets the most breaks, hides the most money, has the most wealth and CRIES the most that they don't have enough, and everybody is against them.

The truth is the top 2% make the most money because they control the most, own the most and use the most, but can't understand why they should pay the most of the cost of government that is in place to make sure they can do what they do and because they must be watched or they will not do what is right for the people, the environment or the country as a whole.

Why should my income be taxed differently then those who use money to make money? Why should I pay for what business needs that I seldom use but you will say that its there for me to use, like i will be using interstate highways throughout the nation on a daily basis like business does.

There is not one business that is started to create jobs, there is not one job that is created to put a person to work. It's all about creating wealth/profit for those who have money and the rest of us are just a bi-product of the event, either as a worker or a customer.


You can make as much money as you want, which you do. But trying to say that not taxing you will somehow trickle down to the rest of us has been proven over the last 10 years that it's a plain ass lie.

600,000 businesses are created each year, of which 400,000 are non employee corp that are created for tax hiding purpose. the average investment is 80,000 for the other 200,000 out of pocket money.

over 2 million people got and average 65,000 tax break each of the last 10 years but only 1/10 th of those people created companies if you believe that all business creation came from the top 2%. where did the other 90% of the tax give aways go? sure the hell wasn't in creating jobs was it.

 

[mnbasketball]

corporations with more than $250 million in assets or $50 million in sales, are not small business in any sense that i know of. sure they are not in the top 5% maybe but they are not mom and pa businesses that take all their income in wages.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_welfare/real_tax_rates_plummet.php
Over the three-year period, the average effective rate for all 275 companies dropped by a fifth, from 21.4 percent in 2001 to 17.2 percent in 2002-2003.

The statistics are startling:

•Eighty-two of the 275 companies, almost a third of the total, paid zero or less in federal income taxes in at least one year from 2001 to 2003. In the years they paid no income tax, these companies earned $102 billion in pretax U.S. profits. But instead of paying $35.6 billion in income taxes as the statutory 35 percent corporate tax rate seems to require, these companies generated so many excess tax breaks that they received outright tax rebate checks from the U.S. Treasury, totaling $12.6 billion. These companies' "negative tax rates" meant that they made more after taxes than before taxes in those no-tax years.

 

[mnbasketball]

the truth is if all there was was competition for jobs and there was no way that the govt could make sure that the people got things that we need as a society to make sure everyone is able to share in what America provides to take care of needs we would be a 5th rate society like china and other countries that do little to take care of it's populations.
In other words we would soon be a nation that is not free but run by a dictator or group of families that share power as dictators.
Is that what you think America should be like?

 

[Mr Liberty]

How did 1% of Americans come to possess 40% of US wealth?

A nasty plot(s) to deprive other Americans of their rightful money?

Boy Georage, of course you can never understand that people worked for their money, since you have fully admitted you never made more than mimimum wage and have live the life of a dirt poor loser! Your a bottom feeding socialist that wants everyone to take of you. Why the fuck would anyone take a poverty case like you seriously?

Have you stopped beating your dog yet?

Any thoughts on why fourth quarter profits at US businesses were up 29.2%? Do you see the connection between Wall Street's recovery and the 10 million American families who will have lost their homes by the end of this year?

How about the $5.6 trillion in home equity wiped out by all those hard-working Wall Street types.

When will boot-licking slaves like you begin to connect the dots between the scams that made/make Wall Street rich and the big rise in federal debt you punks never stop whining about?

Loser.

Those 10 million families should not have bought a home they could not afford.

The 5.6 trillion in equity only existed because of the bubble created by the lenders, borrowers and the government. I especially remember the liberals shouting something about "the right to own a home"

Here is a link: The Richest People in America 2010 - Forbes.com Now, tell me how any of these people have taken anything from you?

Pay special attention to Michael Moritz, he is a venture capitalist. People like Michael create startup companies, before there is a demand for the product. It was the lowering of the capital gains in the 1980s that encourage venture capitalist to invest in start up computer and chip companies and are responsible for the PC boom.

I don't like your Marxist views. You do not value individual rights. You only see groups and your laws to protect them have only cause great harm, to them and everyone concerned.

 

[georgephillip]

The bar to ordinary folks becoming rich is taxes.

One is not taxed on what he or she already has, such as stocks, bonds, or stacks of gold bars, but rather on money earned.

So who is being hurt by increased taxes?

Those being hurt by increasing the level of taxation are among Americans who have seen their share of national wealth increase by nearly 2% during the last two years. Two years when millions of others have lost their homes, savings and retirement benefits.

At what point does the gap between the rich and the rest become a problem for everyone in the US?

Income tax increases could apply only to those who are already rich:

"Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
The Schakowsky plan creates five additional income tax brackets, starting at 45 percent for married
couples making over $1 million dollars a year and increasing to 49 percent for people making $1
billion and over. The current top tax rate is 35 percent for people making $379,150 a year or more.
Progressive estate tax Our budget rescinds the estate tax in the tax deal and replaces it with Sen.
Sanders’ progressive estate tax. This would generate $173 billion over 2012-16 and $330 billion over
2012-21. The policy would include a $3.5 million exemption followed by a progressive series of
marginal tax rates as follows: a 45% rate on the taxable portion of estates up to $50 million, a 55%
rate on the portion of estates up to $500 million, and a 65% rate on the portion of estates worth
over $500 million.
Tax capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income This policy would eliminate the
preferentially low rates on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends (currently 15%) and again
tax all capital income as ordinary income under the marginal tax rate structure. The tax rate on longterm
capital gains is scheduled to rise to 20% in 2013 and dividends are scheduled to be taxed again
as ordinary income.
Cap the benefit on itemized deductions at 28%..."

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/The%20CPC%20FY2012%20Budget.pdf

On first look all that sounds great, but then you have to realize that all that will reduce investment in job producing activities. The real solution that we should get behind is less government spending. Therein lies the cure to all our fiscal problems. Then the monetary side will be manageable too.

American corporations have just logged profits at an annual rate of $1.678 trillion after fourth quarter profits grew faster than at any time in the last 60 years.

US businesses apparently have better uses for their money than creating jobs in this country. I think it's also important to remember that many of today's most profitable corporations would not be so healthy if it wasn't for taxpayer-financed bailouts.

Less government spending should include the military security complex too, imho. The budgets of the Pentagon, CIA and Homeland Security total approximately $1.1 trillion which is close to our current yearly deficit.

It's hard to see how meaningful cuts to the military/security complex would ever happen since our current government doesn't even audit the Pentagon.

I would suggest cutting War and Wall Street for starters, but elected Republicans AND Democrats would likely regard that suggestion as treason.

 

[American Horse]

Those being hurt by increasing the level of taxation are among Americans who have seen their share of national wealth increase by nearly 2% during the last two years. Two years when millions of others have lost their homes, savings and retirement benefits.

At what point does the gap between the rich and the rest become a problem for everyone in the US?

Income tax increases could apply only to those who are already rich:

"Schakowsky millionaire tax rates proposal (adding 45%, 46%, 47%, 48%, and 49% top rates)
The Schakowsky plan creates five additional income tax brackets, starting at 45 percent for married
couples making over $1 million dollars a year and increasing to 49 percent for people making $1
billion and over. The current top tax rate is 35 percent for people making $379,150 a year or more.
Progressive estate tax Our budget rescinds the estate tax in the tax deal and replaces it with Sen.
Sanders’ progressive estate tax. This would generate $173 billion over 2012-16 and $330 billion over
2012-21. The policy would include a $3.5 million exemption followed by a progressive series of
marginal tax rates as follows: a 45% rate on the taxable portion of estates up to $50 million, a 55%
rate on the portion of estates up to $500 million, and a 65% rate on the portion of estates worth
over $500 million.
Tax capital gains and qualified dividends as ordinary income This policy would eliminate the
preferentially low rates on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends (currently 15%) and again
tax all capital income as ordinary income under the marginal tax rate structure. The tax rate on longterm
capital gains is scheduled to rise to 20% in 2013 and dividends are scheduled to be taxed again
as ordinary income.
Cap the benefit on itemized deductions at 28%..."

http://grijalva.house.gov/uploads/The%20CPC%20FY2012%20Budget.pdf

On first look all that sounds great, but then you have to realize that all that will reduce investment in job producing activities. The real solution that we should get behind is less government spending. Therein lies the cure to all our fiscal problems. Then the monetary side will be manageable too.

American corporations have just logged profits at an annual rate of $1.678 trillion after fourth quarter profits grew faster than at any time in the last 60 years.

US businesses apparently have better uses for their money than creating jobs in this country. I think it's also important to remember that many of today's most profitable corporations would not be so healthy if it wasn't for taxpayer-financed bailouts.

Less government spending should include the military security complex too, imho. The budgets of the Pentagon, CIA and Homeland Security total approximately $1.1 trillion which is close to our current yearly deficit.

It's hard to see how meaningful cuts to the military/security complex would ever happen since our current government doesn't even audit the Pentagon.

I would suggest cutting War and Wall Street for starters, but elected Republicans AND Democrats would likely regard that suggestion as treason.

To a degree I have to agree with your last comment: The corporations are the playthings of the Democrats - too many love creating tax loopholes to shape social ends and quid-pro-quo through manipulation and special treatment. And Republicans can't imagine how we could reduce our military forces; democrats too: recall that every congressman or senator loves having military bases in their district or state and it takes a committee to recomend closures to give congress a safety. As far as auditing it, you could from some point in time in the perhaps not too distant past; but it's a plum for too many in congress.

Eliminate all corporate taxes and pass all all corporate income through individual taxes, dividends, and capital gains. Pull back our military where ever possible and let the world get by without us for a decade or two. I predict that within twenty years we'd be fully engaged in a worldwide conflict of EPIC proportions.

 

[bripat9643]

You're not likely to find conservatives or progressives in either the Republican OR Democratic party willing to vote against Wall Street.

Horseshit. Plenty of conservatives will vote against corporate subsidies. Those are primarily Democrat scams. However, even if that were true, how does that get Obama off the hook?

Republicans AND Democrats in DC chose to borrow the money for the bailouts from rich individuals and corporations (and China) instead of taxing the rich individuals and corporations in this country.

So you're not opposed to bailouts. You're just opposed to borrowing to pay for them. Yeah, that's a sound moral stance.

 

[bripat9643]

Less government spending should include the military security complex too, imho. The budgets of the Pentagon, CIA and Homeland Security total approximately $1.1 trillion which is close to our current yearly deficit.

Social Security and Medicare total approximately $1.6 trillion dollars, which is much closer to our current yearly deficit. According to your logic, that means we should cut both of those programs.

 

[Agit8r]

"The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state. The expense of government to the individuals of a great nation is like the expense of management to the joint tenants of a great estate, who are all obliged to contribute in proportion to their respective interests in the estate. In the observation or neglect of this maxim consists what is called the equality or inequality of taxation."


"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. A tax upon house-rents, therefore, would in general fall heaviest upon the rich; and in this sort of inequality there would not, perhaps, be anything very unreasonable. It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

Adam Smith; from Wealth of Nations


If the public received a proper education like our founding fathers believed necessary for the operation of a republic, the people would know enough to not believe a word that these pinochetist Cato hacks say

 

[editec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXPibDuy6M&feature=player_embedded

If liberals could learn this, they would stop being liberals.

If one change in tax policy is class warfare than ALL changes in tax policy are class warfare.

 

[georgephillip]

The sad irony here is that the OP, who I can assure isn't making shit for income, in the big picture,

is shilling for the Rich to get more tax breaks that will be paid for by HER having to pay more or get less.

Democrats are stuck (on stupid) in the marketplace of ideas while Republicans understand instinctively political battles are won or lost in the marketplace of emotions.

With so many elected Republicans AND Democrats belonging to the millionaire class, things will likely get worse before any real Change (or Hope) appears.

Unless millions of US voters decide Republicans AND Democrats are the problem and start voting accordingly.

 

[georgephillip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXPibDuy6M&feature=player_embedded

If liberals could learn this, they would stop being liberals.

Of one change in tax policy is class warfare than ALL changes in tax policy are class warfare.

Are you saying it's NOT an accident that the richest 2% of Americans have nearly doubled their "fair" share of returns to wealth in less than one generation?

Stop HATING!

 

[editec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXPibDuy6M&feature=player_embedded

If liberals could learn this, they would stop being liberals.

Of one change in tax policy is class warfare than ALL changes in tax policy are class warfare.

Are you saying it's NOT an accident that the richest 2% of Americans have nearly doubled their "fair" share of returns to wealth in less than one generation?

Stop HATING!

LOL.

I got nothing against the rich.

Some of the people I want to become my bestest bestest friends are rich.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The answer is not in raising taxes any more than the answer is in cutting taxes.

The answer lies in a fair tax code that is so simple that a corporation has no more than a 3x5 card to send in.

The right bitches that America has the highest corporate tax rate in the world, but that's bullshit if your corporation is big enough to have an accountant on staff and a lawyer on retainer with all the loop-holes, deductions and bullshit paperwork.


Simplify the code.

 

[chikenwing]

It take a very simple mind to sign onto class envy,our fearless leader crys we all must sacrifice,when it is in fact the very ones blubbering the loudest are the ones that have driven us to were we are.

Why would anyone believe a word that comes out of DC.Total and complete mismanagement,the sad part is we will wind up sacrificing even more before if ever they get their act together.

Its not the rich,its not the middle class,its simple mismanagement by our elected and collusion from the lazy.

 

[georgephillip]

Boy Georage, of course you can never understand that people worked for their money, since you have fully admitted you never made more than mimimum wage and have live the life of a dirt poor loser! Your a bottom feeding socialist that wants everyone to take of you. Why the fuck would anyone take a poverty case like you seriously?

Have you stopped beating your dog yet?

Any thoughts on why fourth quarter profits at US businesses were up 29.2%? Do you see the connection between Wall Street's recovery and the 10 million American families who will have lost their homes by the end of this year?

How about the $5.6 trillion in home equity wiped out by all those hard-working Wall Street types.

When will boot-licking slaves like you begin to connect the dots between the scams that made/make Wall Street rich and the big rise in federal debt you punks never stop whining about?

Loser.

Those 10 million families should not have bought a home they could not afford.

The 5.6 trillion in equity only existed because of the bubble created by the lenders, borrowers and the government. I especially remember the liberals shouting something about "the right to own a home"

Here is a link: The Richest People in America 2010 - Forbes.com Now, tell me how any of these people have taken anything from you?

Pay special attention to Michael Moritz, he is a venture capitalist. People like Michael create startup companies, before there is a demand for the product. It was the lowering of the capital gains in the 1980s that encourage venture capitalist to invest in start up computer and chip companies and are responsible for the PC boom.

I don't like your Marxist views. You do not value individual rights. You only see groups and your laws to protect them have only cause great harm, to them and everyone concerned.

I don't see a greater threat to individual human rights than the peril presented by corporations. What better example of central planning exists today? Corporations began hundreds of years ago when many human beings were bought and sold along with the land they lived on.

Someone like Michael Moritz has a place in funding productive enterprises like computers; however, it was taxpayer funding operating through the Pentagon that did all the heavy lifting necessary for creating the Internet. Those like Michael are considerably less useful when they speculate in CDOs or CDSs or the price of food and oil.

The richest 10,000 Americans pay income tax at about a 20% rate (17.7% for Warren Buffett) which means some of the rest of us pay a greater share to cover what the rich neglect. Corporations pay an even lower percentage than Buffett, when they bother paying anything at all.

Finally, not all of those 10 million families bought homes they could not afford. Some had their life savings, retirement plans and jobs destroyed by the credit/housing bubble inflated by an "Axis of Terror" consisting of big government, big business and the richest 5% of Americans.