Fiscal cliff

[Votto]

Fed chairman Ben Barnanke coined the phrase fiscal cliff to define the unsustainable fiscal path of the United States, and guess what, nothing has changed since he uttered these words in February and nothing will change in the near future.

There are several ways to look at this.

1. Ben Barnanke is an idiot and does not know what he is talking about.

2. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionist GOP.

3. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists democrats.

4. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists GOP and democrats.


No matter how you slice it, it does not seem to bode well for the country. My only question is, is this intentional or otherwise? Why would it be intentional? I thought about what Obama's right hand man, Rahm Emanuel once said.

"You never want to let a crisis go to waste".

The translation, people don't like change, especially when it negatively effects them. However, when a crisis occurs the people are already being negatively effected, so they demand change that would have otherwise been political suicide come election time. That is why it took the credit crisis to give trillions of dollars of taxpayer money to corporate America.

I think Herbert Hoover said it best,

"Every collectivist revolution rides on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries in Europe. It was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And 'emergency' became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains."

So is this the game plan from here on out? Are we just being set up for crisis after crisis in order to warp society into some sort of collectivist utopia?

No matter how you look at these problems there is no escaping that the system is broken. With an Congressional approval rating of only 13% and those in Congress continuing to get reelected, democracy has truly failed in the US.

 

[rdean]

Why don't you explain what the "fiscal cliff is"?

 

[blackhawk]

Fed chairman Ben Barnanke coined the phrase fiscal cliff to define the unsustainable fiscal path of the United States, and guess what, nothing has changed since he uttered these words in February and nothing will change in the near future.

There are several ways to look at this.

1. Ben Barnanke is an idiot and does not know what he is talking about.

2. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionist GOP.

3. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists democrats.

4. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists GOP and democrats.


No matter how you slice it, it does not seem to bode well for the country. My only question is, is this intentional or otherwise? Why would it be intentional? I thought about what Obama's right hand man, Rahm Emanuel once said.

"You never want to let a crisis go to waste".

The translation, people don't like change, especially when it negatively effects them. However, when a crisis occurs the people are already being negatively effected, so they demand change that would have otherwise been political suicide come election time. That is why it took the credit crisis to give trillions of dollars of taxpayer money to corporate America.

I think Herbert Hoover said it best,

"Every collectivist revolution rides on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries in Europe. It was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And 'emergency' became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains."

So is this the game plan from here on out? Are we just being set up for crisis after crisis in order to warp society into some sort of collectivist utopia?

No matter how you look at these problems there is no escaping that the system is broken. With an Congressional approval rating of only 13% and those in Congress continuing to get reelected, democracy has truly failed in the US.

I have said this before and will again term limits for Congress both parties have rigged things so much to benefit incumbents in elections it's dam near impossible for challenger to get them out. Term limits would not solve all the gridlock and other partisan problems in D.C. but it would be a good first step.

 

[emptystep]

I think we could have gotten a deal a year ago if the republicans in the house would have been willing to let the Bush tax cut expire but they knew it would too big of a perceived win for Obama and so put the country at greater financial risk for political and personal gain.

The question is, what now?

 

[g5000]

I think we could have gotten a deal a year ago if the republicans in the house would have been willing to let the Bush tax cut expire but they knew it would too big of a perceived win for Obama and so put the country at greater financial risk for political and personal gain.

The question is, what now?

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

 

[emptystep]

I think we could have gotten a deal a year ago if the republicans in the house would have been willing to let the Bush tax cut expire but they knew it would too big of a perceived win for Obama and so put the country at greater financial risk for political and personal gain.

The question is, what now?

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

 

[Votto]

Why don't you explain what the "fiscal cliff is"?

A better question would be why Congress could care less what Ben Barnanke has to say. It's like trying to teach evolution to a bunch of fundi creationists.

Of course, my guess is that Ben is just part of this huge demagogeury machine in Washington. No one there has anything of significance to say that will help us.

 

[OKTexas]

Fed chairman Ben Barnanke coined the phrase fiscal cliff to define the unsustainable fiscal path of the United States, and guess what, nothing has changed since he uttered these words in February and nothing will change in the near future.

There are several ways to look at this.

1. Ben Barnanke is an idiot and does not know what he is talking about.

2. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionist GOP.

3. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists democrats.

4. Nothing is being done because of the obstructionists GOP and democrats.


No matter how you slice it, it does not seem to bode well for the country. My only question is, is this intentional or otherwise? Why would it be intentional? I thought about what Obama's right hand man, Rahm Emanuel once said.

"You never want to let a crisis go to waste".

The translation, people don't like change, especially when it negatively effects them. However, when a crisis occurs the people are already being negatively effected, so they demand change that would have otherwise been political suicide come election time. That is why it took the credit crisis to give trillions of dollars of taxpayer money to corporate America.

I think Herbert Hoover said it best,

"Every collectivist revolution rides on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries in Europe. It was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And 'emergency' became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains."

So is this the game plan from here on out? Are we just being set up for crisis after crisis in order to warp society into some sort of collectivist utopia?

No matter how you look at these problems there is no escaping that the system is broken. With an Congressional approval rating of only 13% and those in Congress continuing to get reelected, democracy has truly failed in the US.

I have said this before and will again term limits for Congress both parties have rigged things so much to benefit incumbents in elections it's dam near impossible for challenger to get them out. Term limits would not solve all the gridlock and other partisan problems in D.C. but it would be a good first step.

Yep, but what are the chances a super majority of both houses would pass a proposed amendment to term limit themselves? Can you say, ain't gonna happen? An article 5 convention would be required and they won't do that either.

 

[g5000]

I think we could have gotten a deal a year ago if the republicans in the house would have been willing to let the Bush tax cut expire but they knew it would too big of a perceived win for Obama and so put the country at greater financial risk for political and personal gain.

The question is, what now?

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

The GOP has no leverage whatsoever. If we go over the cliff, the country will put all of the blame on them.

.

 

[MisterBeale]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/262974-avoiding-the-fiscal-cliff.html#post6374265
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AmS4boqHjI&feature=player_embedded]Ron Paul Urgently Warns of the Inevitable Collapse of the Dollar.flv - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Votto]

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

The GOP has no leverage whatsoever. If we go over the cliff, the country will put all of the blame on them.

.

Sure, it's "W"'s fault.

 

[Freewill]

Why don't you explain what the "fiscal cliff is"?

That is agood question but remember we only heard about the cliff after the election. For some reason the main street media failed to report it prior to the election.

 

[Freewill]

I think we could have gotten a deal a year ago if the republicans in the house would have been willing to let the Bush tax cut expire but they knew it would too big of a perceived win for Obama and so put the country at greater financial risk for political and personal gain.

The question is, what now?

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

Economic policy based on consumer spending OMG what have we become?

 

[konradv]

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

The GOP has no leverage whatsoever. If we go over the cliff, the country will put all of the blame on them.

Sure, it's "W"'s fault.

Sneaky way of coming back later and saying everything's always blamed on him? No one's mentioned him, so this just seems like a devious attempt to stir the pot and divert the thread.

 

[Old Rocks]

Why don't you explain what the "fiscal cliff is"?

That is agood question but remember we only heard about the cliff after the election. For some reason the main street media failed to report it prior to the election.

Bullshit. There were many people addressing it. Just not people campaigning for office.

 

[editec]

I think there will be a compromise.

Want to know why?

Because the rich will be hurt if we don't.

Who the hell do we think benefits most from government spending?

The poor?



Not hardly, kids, not hardly.

 

[emptystep]

The voters made it clear they want taxes on the rich increased. This is going to happen.

Payroll tax cuts are also set to expire, and they should. They were an emergency measure, and the emergency has passed.

Everything else, your guess is as good as mine.

.

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

Economic policy based on consumer spending OMG what have we become?

What have we become? Economic policy based on consumer spending? Seen the headlines of the of the major news agencies? Fluff. Noticed what the campaign were about? Trivialities. Which channels, news and entertainment, cable and radio, have the highest rating? Loading up on mental mush. Average hours spent on what activities? Priorities.

What have we become? Damn if I know. I do hope we can become the strength that gets this world out of its economic doldrums. I believe we can. Call me crazy, again.

 

[konradv]

I think a lot of it will depend on Black Friday. Strong numbers gives the democrats more power to push. Low numbers and the republicans can state that they are doing the right thing for the country by holding out. Although that logic doesn't quite make sense.

Economic policy based on consumer spending OMG what have we become?

What have we become? Economic policy based on consumer spending? Seen the headlines of the of the major news agencies? Fluff. Noticed what the campaign were about? Trivialities. Which channels, news and entertainment, cable and radio, have the highest rating? Loading up on mental mush. Average hours spent on what activities? Priorities.

What have we become? Damn if I know. I do hope we can become the strength that gets this world out of its economic doldrums. I believe we can. Call me crazy, again.

What better way to get us out of the doldrums than consumer spending? It's what the system is based on. Without it we're just treading water. Better than government spending, no?

 

[rdean]

I want one of these right wingers to explain what exactly the "fiscal cliff" is. Their explanations are not only enlightening and illuminating, but they can be incredibly entertaining.

 

[MisterBeale]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hV2Cpe7Ppo&feature=related]Ron Paul on Stossel: 'It's hard to divvy up loot when there's none left to divvy up' - 11/15/2012 - YouTube[/ame]