First Pre-Crime Arrest

[Dr Grump]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin.

Jingoistic rhetoric adds nothing to the debate - especially rhetoric from a 200 year old dead guy, who no doubt means well, but has never lived in the 21st century

Far too many Americans died protecting this Constitution, to sacrifice it for the sake of a few dozen shooting victims.

And there lies the rub. I disagree. There are enough checks and balances - some may say too many - that if the shit hits the fan people can redress any wrongs, perceived or otherwise...

BTW, I come from a country where you can can conduct searches without a warrant, with a warrant, via consent, or if there is some sort of immediate danger. If you do it without a warrant it has to be under strict conditions. Last time I looked we weren't a police state. In fact, in the incorruptibility index we finish in the top three most years....

 

[goldcatt]

He should think twice before disputing his union contract?


There would be outrage from both you, Dante, and Wicked Jester.

You came out and said he was "arrested", when it's quite obvious he wasn't.

You obviously have a thing against cops. Taking you seriously on this subject is ludicrous, at best.

He was forced to take a mental evaluation. Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Supreme Court rule in Roe vs Wade we all had a RIGHT to privacy? He committed no crime, was not in the process of committing a crime, the cops had no reason to dispatch 4 different police agencies and 2 SWAT teams to his house. He was handcuffed and escorted away by the police.

No, he can be forced into psychiatric custody and evaluation if he is considered an imminent danger to himself or others. The seminal rule on that is from O'Connor v. Donaldson:

FindLaw | Cases and Codes

Still trying to remember where the 72-hour rule came from though. My brain seems to be mush tonight.

 

[eagleseven]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin.

Jingoistic rhetoric adds nothing to the debate - especially rhetoric from a 200 year old dead guy, who no doubt means well, but has never lived in the 21st century

A 200 year old dead guy?

Your honor, I rest my case.

Far too many Americans died protecting this Constitution, to sacrifice it for the sake of a few dozen shooting victims.

And there lies the rub. I disagree. There are enough checks and balances - some may say too many - that if the shit hits the fan people can redress any wrongs, perceived or otherwise...

BTW, I come from a country where you can can conduct searches without a warrant, with a warrant, via consent, or if there is some sort of immediate danger. If you do it without a warrant it has to be under strict conditions. Last time I looked we weren't a police state. In fact, in the incorruptibility index we finish in the top three most years....

Funny you bring up old men above...because you believe you're still in the twentieth century.

 

[Dr Grump]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin.

Jingoistic rhetoric adds nothing to the debate - especially rhetoric from a 200 year old dead guy, who no doubt means well, but has never lived in the 21st century

A 200 year old dead guy?

Your honor, I rest my case.

Far too many Americans died protecting this Constitution, to sacrifice it for the sake of a few dozen shooting victims.

And there lies the rub. I disagree. There are enough checks and balances - some may say too many - that if the shit hits the fan people can redress any wrongs, perceived or otherwise...

BTW, I come from a country where you can can conduct searches without a warrant, with a warrant, via consent, or if there is some sort of immediate danger. If you do it without a warrant it has to be under strict conditions. Last time I looked we weren't a police state. In fact, in the incorruptibility index we finish in the top three most years....

Funny you bring up old men above...because you believe you're still in the twentieth century.

So far you have done nothing to counter my argument other than rely on some words from Benjamin Franklin (and if given enough time you'd add more quotes from your FF) like he has some Messiah-like end-game in sight from his grave. You guys give way too much kudos to your FF - like you're stuck in some time warp. I think they were people of their time, and had some good ideas, but they did add an amendment process to your constitution for a reason. Your constitution is OK at best in my book - has held you back in many ways.

But you still haven't addressed the meat and potatos of my argument. You just quote Ben Franklin like he is the first and last word on what makes a society, when clearly he is not...

No, YOU are still in the 18th century. Me? 21st.....

 

[Wicked Jester]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
-Benjamin Franklin.

Jingoistic rhetoric adds nothing to the debate - especially rhetoric from a 200 year old dead guy, who no doubt means well, but has never lived in the 21st century

A 200 year old dead guy?

Your honor, I rest my case.

Far too many Americans died protecting this Constitution, to sacrifice it for the sake of a few dozen shooting victims.

And there lies the rub. I disagree. There are enough checks and balances - some may say too many - that if the shit hits the fan people can redress any wrongs, perceived or otherwise...

BTW, I come from a country where you can can conduct searches without a warrant, with a warrant, via consent, or if there is some sort of immediate danger. If you do it without a warrant it has to be under strict conditions. Last time I looked we weren't a police state. In fact, in the incorruptibility index we finish in the top three most years....

Funny you bring up old men above...because you believe you're still in the twentieth century.

So, tell us all what went on when he "disputed" said contract.

You make it sound as though the cops just picked this guy and decided to haul him in for evaluation for no apparent reason whatsoever.

 

[eagleseven]

But you still haven't addressed the meat and potatos of my argument. You just quote Ben Franklin like he is the first and last word on what makes a society, when clearly he is not.

You wish to abandon the 4th Amendment to save 20-30 Americans from public shootings per year.

I would rather let them die.

---

We have nothing to discuss.

 

[eagleseven]

So, tell us all what went on when he "disputed" said contract.

You make it sound as though the cops just picked this guy and decided to haul him in for evaluation for no apparent reason whatsoever.

If you read the article, Pyles made a workplace complaint to his employer through his union. His boss then put him on administrative leave and immediately reported him to the police.

Days after he was put on leave, Pyles was kidnapped by said police without warrant.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

It's a lose-lose situation for everybody.

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

thats the second time i have seen ...GONE POSTAL......hey folkes that term is last century....as a letter carrier i object to it.....it is a proven fact that there are more shootings in other industries and school shootings.....why not say ....."the GUYS GONE FUCKING NUTS".....ok im done....

 

[Wicked Jester]

So, tell us all what went on when he "disputed" said contract.

You make it sound as though the cops just picked this guy and decided to haul him in for evaluation for no apparent reason whatsoever.

If you read the article, Pyles made a workplace complaint to his employer through his union. His boss then put him on administrative leave and immediately reported him to the police.

Days after he was put on leave, Pyles was kidnapped by said police without warrant.

So, it becomes quite obvious that he probably ran his mouth a lil' more than he should have. Nowhere in that article does it state what he said to his employer. He most likely made threats to the employer. A very stupid thing to do these days.

This isn't about anybody trying to take anybody's right to bear arms away. It obviously has to do with the fact that the dude is a blowhard with a big mouth, who should have thought before he spoke.

Ya' know, not everything is a big fucking conspiracy.

 

[Wicked Jester]

It's interesting that quite a few op-ed pieces, and people on messageboards, were disturbed at the lack of pre action before Columbine. Quite a bit of Monday-morning quarterbacking on what could have been done to prevent the tragedy.

I think the man is due some compensation, but maybe the home invasion made him see the light.

It's a lose-lose situation for everybody.

Just wondered what peoples' reactions would have been if he had gone postal, and it came out after the fact that the police had been monitoring him but hadn't done anything about it....

thats the second time i have seen ...GONE POSTAL......hey folkes that term is last century....as a letter carrier i object to it.....it is a proven fact that there are more shootings in other industries and school shootings.....why not say ....."the GUYS GONE FUCKING NUTS".....ok im done....

Yeah. Just make sure you get my fucking mail here on time, dammit!

Just kidding!

 

[Harry Dresden]

You're probably right, not an entire thread dedicated to the idea, but there are a couple of folks who believe that only law enforcment and the military should have firearms.

i dont want to mention any names.....but even though Chris says he is not....if you look at his posts....he is one....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Yeah. Just make sure you get my fucking mail here on time, dammit!

Just kidding!

just dont forget to tip your carrier at Christmas time Wj...

 

[eagleseven]

If you read the article, Pyles made a workplace complaint to his employer through his union. His boss then put him on administrative leave and immediately reported him to the police.

Days after he was put on leave, Pyles was kidnapped by said police without warrant.

So, it becomes quite obvious that he probably ran his mouth a lil' more than he should have. Nowhere in that article does it state what he said to his employer. He most likely made threats to the employer. A very stupid thing to do these days.

The police have furnished no evidence that Pyles was an immediate threat to anyone, and have officially closed the matter.

This isn't about anybody trying to take anybody's right to bear arms away. It obviously has to do with the fact that the dude is a blowhard with a big mouth, who should have thought before he spoke.

Your idle speculation is no justification to ignore the 4th Amendment.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Yeah. Just make sure you get my fucking mail here on time, dammit!

Just kidding!

just dont forget to tip your carrier at Christmas time Wj...

I always do!.....Even though a majority of the crap he delivers is from a bunch of morons trying to sell me new siding and shit like that!

 

[Wicked Jester]

If you read the article, Pyles made a workplace complaint to his employer through his union. His boss then put him on administrative leave and immediately reported him to the police.

Days after he was put on leave, Pyles was kidnapped by said police without warrant.

So, it becomes quite obvious that he probably ran his mouth a lil' more than he should have. Nowhere in that article does it state what he said to his employer. He most likely made threats to the employer. A very stupid thing to do these days.

The police have furnished no evidence that Pyles was an immediate threat to anyone, and have officially closed the matter.

This isn't about anybody trying to take anybody's right to bear arms away. It obviously has to do with the fact that the dude is a blowhard with a big mouth, who should have thought before he spoke.

Your idle speculation is no justification to ignore the 4th Amendment.

Nor have they provided any evidence that he WASN'T an immediate threat to anybody.

The cops did the right thing, deal with it!

 

[eagleseven]

Nor have they provided any evidence that he WASN'T an immediate threat to anybody.

Since when are you guilty until proven innocent?

Perhaps you should study the Constitution of the country you supposedly fought for?

 

[CurveLight]

When I first saw the op title I winced because I could not help but wonder how this could be considered the first pre-crime arrest? We've been doing this to people for years. Why the reaction on this?

 

[CurveLight]

So, it becomes quite obvious that he probably ran his mouth a lil' more than he should have. Nowhere in that article does it state what he said to his employer. He most likely made threats to the employer. A very stupid thing to do these days.

The police have furnished no evidence that Pyles was an immediate threat to anyone, and have officially closed the matter.

This isn't about anybody trying to take anybody's right to bear arms away. It obviously has to do with the fact that the dude is a blowhard with a big mouth, who should have thought before he spoke.

Your idle speculation is no justification to ignore the 4th Amendment.

Nor have they provided any evidence that he WASN'T an immediate threat to anybody.

The cops did the right thing, deal with it!

You're a sick puppy. How can you be so full of fear you applaud this fuxxing shit?

 

[Wicked Jester]

Nor have they provided any evidence that he WASN'T an immediate threat to anybody.

Since when are you guilty until proven innocent?

Perhaps you should study the Constitution of the country you supposedly fought for?

HE WAS NEVER ARRESTED. What part of that do you not understand?

Innocence or guilt had nothing to do with it. It was about his mental health, and the threat he may have posed to our fellow citizens. He was deemed not a threat to himself or others hence, he was released and given his weapons back.

Maybe you need to wake the fuck up!

 

[eagleseven]

Nor have they provided any evidence that he WASN'T an immediate threat to anybody.

Since when are you guilty until proven innocent?

Perhaps you should study the Constitution of the country you supposedly fought for?

HE WAS NEVER ARRESTED. What part of that do you not understand?

Innocence or guilt had nothing to do with it. It was about his mental health, and the threat he may have posed to our fellow citizens. He was deemed not a threat to himself or others hence, he was released and given his weapons back.

Maybe you need to wake the fuck up!

So, in your world, a rookie fresh out of the Police Academy can:

1. Deem me a mentally unstable threat to society with no evidence
2. Kidnap me at gunpoint in the middle of the night with no warrant
3. Hold me in a psychiatric hospital indefinitely

Whatever you say, commissar.