Fired Gay Teacher on why he quit the bigoted Catholic church

[emilynghiem]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

 

[SassyIrishLass]

If he doesn't agree with the Church then good riddance. No loss

 

[emilynghiem]

If he doesn't agree with the Church then good riddance. No loss

Yes, see with private institutions, if you disagree with beliefs, you can part ways and work separately.

We need to leave the same room with public institutions.
And allow people to separate when it comes to matters of personal faith, belief and choice.

 

[DGS49]

The RC Church employs many people who are fornicators and adulterers. It is unfortunate, but doesn't lead to their dismissal.

But a married teacher who posts personal ads on a swingers' website...

...might lose her job.

Same thing.

It is not sinful to BE a homosexual, but to publicly announce one's intention to engage in homosexual sodomy...not a good idea.

 

[BluePhantom]

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

There are good points to be made on both sides of this argument. Th teacher is correct that Catholic doctrine preaches against birth control and divorce. If they are letting people keep their jobs while getting a divorce, there is an argument about applying things consistently. On the other hand, "Catholic" is a definition. When someone identifies themselves as Catholic they are saying to society "I believe this set of things that defines what a Catholic is". If he doesn't believe those set of things he is not, by definition, a Catholic and is better served going to a church that does reflect his actual belief set. It really depends on what his employment agreement actually said.

 

[bodecea]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

 

[martybegan]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Considering the person willfully broke the code of conduct that would have been required even under union representation, all a union would have done is draw out the inevitable.

And laws are in place to protect from unlawful firings even if you are not in a union.

 

[martybegan]

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

There are good points to be made on both sides of this argument. Th teacher is correct that Catholic doctrine preaches against birth control and divorce. If they are letting people keep their jobs while getting a divorce, there is an argument about applying things consistently. On the other hand, "Catholic" is a definition. When someone identifies themselves as Catholic they are saying to society "I believe this set of things that defines what a Catholic is". If he doesn't believe those set of things he is not, by definition, a Catholic and is better served going to a church that does reflect his actual belief set. It really depends on what his employment agreement actually said.

Where in the constitution is there a requirement for consistency when it comes to Freedom of Religion. A government that gets to decide what is consistent within a Religion before it is allowed to act on its beliefs is a government that doesn't really offer freedom of religion.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

And it took him how many decades to come to this realization? Can't help but wonder how long Catholic bigotry was cool with him that he became a teacher at a Catholic school. Was it only when he himself was screwed over that he developed a problem with it? But not until then?

 

[BluePhantom]

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

There are good points to be made on both sides of this argument. Th teacher is correct that Catholic doctrine preaches against birth control and divorce. If they are letting people keep their jobs while getting a divorce, there is an argument about applying things consistently. On the other hand, "Catholic" is a definition. When someone identifies themselves as Catholic they are saying to society "I believe this set of things that defines what a Catholic is". If he doesn't believe those set of things he is not, by definition, a Catholic and is better served going to a church that does reflect his actual belief set. It really depends on what his employment agreement actually said.

Where in the constitution is there a requirement for consistency when it comes to Freedom of Religion. A government that gets to decide what is consistent within a Religion before it is allowed to act on its beliefs is a government that doesn't really offer freedom of religion.

Nowhere. I wasn't referring to consistency in regards to a legal argument. I was just making the point that, in the court of public opinion I suppose, it would seem to be a selective application of their standards.

 

[BluePhantom]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Well this was in North Carolina which is a right to work state so yeah. They can fire you for anything they want. You bought a yellow car. I hate the color yellow. You're fired. Pretty much no recourse to the worker. That being said, unions create their own problems as well, but that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[Katzndogz]

Didn't he make public postings on his facebook page that he disagreed with the church teaching?

 

[martybegan]

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

There are good points to be made on both sides of this argument. Th teacher is correct that Catholic doctrine preaches against birth control and divorce. If they are letting people keep their jobs while getting a divorce, there is an argument about applying things consistently. On the other hand, "Catholic" is a definition. When someone identifies themselves as Catholic they are saying to society "I believe this set of things that defines what a Catholic is". If he doesn't believe those set of things he is not, by definition, a Catholic and is better served going to a church that does reflect his actual belief set. It really depends on what his employment agreement actually said.

Where in the constitution is there a requirement for consistency when it comes to Freedom of Religion. A government that gets to decide what is consistent within a Religion before it is allowed to act on its beliefs is a government that doesn't really offer freedom of religion.

Nowhere. I wasn't referring to consistency in regards to a legal argument. I was just making the point that, in the court of public opinion I suppose, it would seem to be a selective application of their standards.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. However, the court of public opinion should hold now sway over things like this, short of a persons own right to associate with who they want to, socially, and economically.

I.e. you can boycott or ignore people who do things like this, just don't go looking for government to help you out with it, or worse, do it for you.

 

[initforme]

I do agree that getting a divorce goes against Christianity and those that do get one well, are they hypocrites? Can they still be Christians? In the end I believe yes although most divorces are simply copout by both parties and no friends of mine would ever be divorcees. That being said, if he doesn't like it, move on.

 

[initforme]

north Carolina is a day late a a dollar short. Backwards folk, backwards state. South Carolina worse.

 

[bodecea]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Considering the person willfully broke the code of conduct that would have been required even under union representation, all a union would have done is draw out the inevitable.

And laws are in place to protect from unlawful firings even if you are not in a union.

And what code of conduct would he have broken?

 

[bodecea]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Well this was in North Carolina which is a right to work state so yeah. They can fire you for anything they want. You bought a yellow car. I hate the color yellow. You're fired. Pretty much no recourse to the worker. That being said, unions create their own problems as well, but that's a topic for a different thread.

I know...and they are losing teachers left and right....haven't had a raise in a decade. But I expect that's the way the GOP state government wants it.

 

[initforme]

Who in their right monde would do that job today? For what they make and then heaven forbid they have a pension... couldn't pay me enough to deal with the ilk of AMERICA.

 

[BluePhantom]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Well this was in North Carolina which is a right to work state so yeah. They can fire you for anything they want. You bought a yellow car. I hate the color yellow. You're fired. Pretty much no recourse to the worker. That being said, unions create their own problems as well, but that's a topic for a different thread.

I know...and they are losing teachers left and right....haven't had a raise in a decade. But I expect that's the way the GOP state government wants it.

Are we talking about a gay teacher being fired or are you going to pound your shoe on the table about unions?

 

[martybegan]

I like this quote -- glad someone said it:

Church teachings also condemn divorce and marrying outside the faith, Billard pointed out, but said the school employs straight people who are divorced or married to non-Catholics. “If you are going to enforce one thing, you darn well better enforce the entire thing,” said Billard.

Fired Gay Catholic School Teacher Says He Is Quitting Bigoted Church - BuzzFeed News

"
Speaking for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Charlotte, David Hains insisted Billard was not fired simply for being homosexual but for violating Catholic teachings so publicly. “His gayness is not in opposition to the teachings of the Catholic Church,” Hains said, citing a doctrine that says gay people “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” He said Billard veered too far by “going on Facebook, entering into a same-sex relationship, and saying it in a very public way that he does not agree with the teachings of the Catholic Church.”

Promoting same-sex marriage plans amounts to a “public dissing of church teaching that he agreed not to do” as part of his employment agreement, said Hains. Keeping him on staff “would be legitimating that relationship. The church would be saying it’s OK, and it’s not.”

Jim Smith, the associate director of DignityUSA, a seminal LGBT Catholic group, said, “People should not be blindsided or presume that just because the pope says this or that, that we are home free. These firings continue to happen.”

"

Parochial schools are private. Teachers have no protection from firing. That's simply an example of what belonging to a union does. They don't like anything about you? Legal or not? You're fired and that's that.

Considering the person willfully broke the code of conduct that would have been required even under union representation, all a union would have done is draw out the inevitable.

And laws are in place to protect from unlawful firings even if you are not in a union.

And what code of conduct would he have broken?

Probably some statement about living ones life in a Catholic manner.