Fired for being too attractive.. why we need stronger worker protections!

[Connery]

Generally what they typically don't list in those things are that they provide the training and take the "cost" out later.

Also..you have to establish your customer base, often by making cold calls.

And it's not really a "business" you start up by yourself. It's more of a franchise you buy into. And you are still dependent on their product.

So in essence you are an employee without the perks.

Any business generally requires that one needs to generate clients, it is not a franchise by any means. Further, the tax treatment for an independent contractor and an employee are quite different. How the work is performed is also a factor as is control over the one performing the work.

"Common Law Rules

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.

The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination."
Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

So..you have basically proved my point.

Danke.

you are funny.

This is a hoary issue where there is a great distinction between the two.To explain further:

"Independent Contractor Defined

People such as doctors, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, accountants, contractors, subcontractors, public stenographers, or auctioneers who are in an independent trade, business, or profession in which they offer their services to the general public are generally independent contractors. However, whether these people are independent contractors or employees depends on the facts in each case. The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done. The earnings of a person who is working as an independent contractor are subject to Self-Employment Tax.

If you are an independent contractor, you are self-employed."



"Employee

Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

 

[Si modo]

This is lovely. I'd like to hear one of our "Business Uber Alles" types defend this shit.

‘Irresistible’ Iowa woman fired for being too sexy | Inquirer News

An “irresistible” Iowa dental assistant fired for threatening her boss’s marriage – even though she turned away his advances – has lost her discrimination lawsuit.
Melissa Nelson, who is married with children, had worked for James Knight for 10 years before his wife complained about his infatuation with her.
Nelson told the court that she had seen Knight as a father figure and a man of “integrity” who generally treated her with respect.
But about nine years into the job, Knight started to complain that her clothes were “distracting” because they “accentuated her body,” and he sometimes asked her to cover up with her lab coat.
....
And at one point when Knight discussed infrequency in Nelson’s sex life, he told her “that’s like having a Lamborghini in the garage and never driving it.”

Knight’s wife, who also worked in the dental office, put her foot down when she discovered the two were texting each other.
After meeting with their pastor, Knight agreed to fire Nelson because she was a “big threat to our marriage.”

There were threads on this last week. Do try to catch up.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

This is lovely. I'd like to hear one of our "Business Uber Alles" types defend this shit.

It's quite easy to defend, actually, when one uses logic rather than being hijacked by their irrational emotions.

You have no right to a job.

Period.

There you go.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm of the mind that an employer should be able to hire or fire anyone for any reason. it is their business after all.

 

[Sallow]

Any business generally requires that one needs to generate clients, it is not a franchise by any means. Further, the tax treatment for an independent contractor and an employee are quite different. How the work is performed is also a factor as is control over the one performing the work.

"Common Law Rules

Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?

Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.

The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination."
Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?

So..you have basically proved my point.

Danke.

you are funny.

This is a hoary issue where there is a great distinction between the two.To explain further:

"Independent Contractor Defined

People such as doctors, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, accountants, contractors, subcontractors, public stenographers, or auctioneers who are in an independent trade, business, or profession in which they offer their services to the general public are generally independent contractors. However, whether these people are independent contractors or employees depends on the facts in each case. The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done. The earnings of a person who is working as an independent contractor are subject to Self-Employment Tax.

If you are an independent contractor, you are self-employed."



"Employee

Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

I think the problem here is that you are dealing with someone who's been on both sides of the desk.

I've owned a business and have been employed.

You are just reposting the same link over and over.

It's been fun.

 

[Connery]

So..you have basically proved my point.

Danke.

you are funny.

This is a hoary issue where there is a great distinction between the two.To explain further:

"Independent Contractor Defined

People such as doctors, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, accountants, contractors, subcontractors, public stenographers, or auctioneers who are in an independent trade, business, or profession in which they offer their services to the general public are generally independent contractors. However, whether these people are independent contractors or employees depends on the facts in each case. The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done. The earnings of a person who is working as an independent contractor are subject to Self-Employment Tax.

If you are an independent contractor, you are self-employed."



"Employee

Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

I think the problem here is that you are dealing with someone who's been on both sides of the desk.

I've owned a business and have been employed.

You are just reposting the same link over and over.

It's been fun.

That is the link to the IRS you have offered nothing in response.

Further, I have had my own business as well, argued this issue before the US Tax Court and have taught this in my law class...

 

[AquaAthena]

Here we go...

Dentist James Knight Fired Assistant Melissa Nelson Because She was Attractive, Iowa Supreme Court Backs Him

Dentist James Knight assistant Melissa Nelson fired for being too sexy | The News Tribe

Not seeing it...

me either.

Obviously the wifey was jealous


PS

the dentist should fire the wife. Bad move having her work at the office to begin with.

The wife may have had many reasons to feel insecure about the relationship between her hubby and the receptionist, i.e., a change in his personality/attitude when he is around the perceived threat. That is often a major clue as to a relationship deepening.

And yes, it is a bad idea to have one's wife working with one in a business practice, if there are other employees around. And especially if one of them is perceived as a threat by the wife. The man is the real loser, as he is caught in the middle and must choose which relationship he values the most.

But the bottom line is, if one wants to keep their job, then do as the boss requests. If one wants to lose their job, say "no."

He/she who signs the checks, makes the rules and rules change due to many factors.

 

[Sallow]

you are funny.

This is a hoary issue where there is a great distinction between the two.To explain further:

"Independent Contractor Defined

People such as doctors, dentists, veterinarians, lawyers, accountants, contractors, subcontractors, public stenographers, or auctioneers who are in an independent trade, business, or profession in which they offer their services to the general public are generally independent contractors. However, whether these people are independent contractors or employees depends on the facts in each case. The general rule is that an individual is an independent contractor if the payer has the right to control or direct only the result of the work and not what will be done and how it will be done. The earnings of a person who is working as an independent contractor are subject to Self-Employment Tax.

If you are an independent contractor, you are self-employed."



"Employee

Under common-law rules, anyone who performs services for you is your employee if you can control what will be done and how it will be done. This is so even when you give the employee freedom of action. What matters is that you have the right to control the details of how the services are performed."

I think the problem here is that you are dealing with someone who's been on both sides of the desk.

I've owned a business and have been employed.

You are just reposting the same link over and over.

It's been fun.

That is the link to the IRS you have offered nothing in response.

Further, I have had my own business as well, argued this issue before the US Tax Court and have taught this in my law class...

My response was in the first post.

The system in America is gamed.

It's not a "Free Market". It favors the wealthy.

You have markets that are more free in places like Thailand.

Which should have been evident to you since you've owned a business and taught in law school.

 

[Connery]

I think the problem here is that you are dealing with someone who's been on both sides of the desk.

I've owned a business and have been employed.

You are just reposting the same link over and over.

It's been fun.

That is the link to the IRS you have offered nothing in response.

Further, I have had my own business as well, argued this issue before the US Tax Court and have taught this in my law class...

My response was in the first post.

The system in America is gamed.

It's not a "Free Market". It favors the wealthy.

You have markets that are more free in places like Thailand.

Which should have been evident to you since you've owned a business and taught in law school.

Sure sallow sure. I suppose this was a different Sallow who posted what I have quoted below.

Really now.

She can do that without a business license? Or incorporating?

Do tell.

 

[squinch]

Well, that settles it. If a person can be fired in Iowa for being too attractive then I'm never moving there.