Fire in a crowded theater? – or “Free Speech”?

[uscitizen]

I never met that Jack guy myself....

 

[rikules]

The right of the family to privacy outweighs the right of protest. I wouldn't seek to silence the Westboro Church, but I would absolutely support the banning of their right to protest AT THE FUNERALS of our war dead.

There are currently 2 cases (consolidated) before the US Supreme Court on this very issue.

A ruling will probably be handed down in June?

I am skeptical of the SC to balance the rights of ALL people. They appear to often favor the rights of the few.

I have absolutely no problem with Westboro showing themselves for the contemptible assholes that they are. I would prefer they not call themselves 'Christians' because I think Christ is offended by them but that is their right. And rights are not easy things to live with.

But.... We ALL have rights. Their rights do not outweigh mine or anyone else's.

golly

i'm shocked!

I had no idea you could be civil and fairly reasonable (at least on some issues)

 

[George Costanza]

I never met that Jack guy myself....

He is related to Dick.

 

[George Costanza]

Fuck off. You know jack shit about me. rdean posted a perfectly reasonable question. While rdean and I may disagree passionately about many things, I treat threads with the respect they deserve. Pity I can't say the same about you, assclown.

THERE's the CG I am coming to know and love - I feel much better now.

FYI, the correct expression is "You DON'T know jack shit."

Peace and love.

No, I meant what I said. Fucking moron.

Oh, I know you did. That's the sad part.

 

[rdean]

The right of the family to privacy outweighs the right of protest. I wouldn't seek to silence the Westboro Church, but I would absolutely support the banning of their right to protest AT THE FUNERALS of our war dead.

That's why this is a dilemma for me. On one hand, I respect the right to privacy; on the other hand, I respect "free speech". Banning a protest for merely "grief" could set a terrible precedent towards a "slippery slope" away from constitutional rights.

However, the people truly maligned are the gays. What did they do? And if Phelps is correct, what should their punishment be? If they are not guilty of anything, then this isn't "free" speech, but "hate" speech. That is against the law.

I'm not a supporter of 'hate speech' legislation. I am a supporter of free speech, BUT.... with 'rights' come 'responsibilities'. That's the 'fire in a crowded theater' scenario. The family of the dead have the right to bury their loved ones in peace. We, as a country, owe them that. Those families have the right to privacy, and to live their lives (including burying their dead) without having to tolerate those scumbag protestors.

While I support the right of the Westboro cult to protest, we have to balance their rights with the rights of other people. The right to free speech doesn't outweigh the right of other people. We often forget that in the 'free speech' debate. It's not the only right - it is just one.

My personal feeling is that there certainly is a "responsibility", but the truth is the court only looks at the constitution. So the only thing that would matter to them would be "free speech". And I think the only way you could limit free speech is if you could prove that it was causing "damage" to an innocent party, meaning that it went from "free" speech to "hate" speech.

The law isn't always "just". And it's the Supreme Courts job to interpret the law dispassionately. Sometimes, "justice" gets lost. If this were about "justice", then that church wouldn't be able to preach at a private funeral.

 

[rdean]

Westboro is a bunch of liberal loons out there to embarrass the right and be jerkasses to soldiers at one and the same time.

It is just one family who were notorious for being ACLU goons before they decided to pull this stunt. They have no more knowledge of Christianity than a mollusk. They are the evil side of the great spaghetti monster. They deserve no respect as a religion. They are merely lefty goons enjoying thuggery for its own sake.

Anyone has an absolute right to free speech, but these guys aren't into free speech. they are just into deliberate pain and humiliation. They don't care about the war, they don't care about Leviticus. They care about emotional pain. They are sadists. They should pay the damages.

honey, calling the westboro psychos 'liberal' is pretty sad. seriously....not even in the realm of reality.

Read up on them. They are a disgusting horrible piece of work, and I think their 'liberalism' of 20 years ago was as much a scam as their religiosity is now. But that is who they are and were. They are mostly into orchestrating emotional pain.

I think the Masses doctrine Rdean noted earlier is a crock (The damn theater was on fire, after all) but I don't think deliberate sadism is protected speech.

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater doesn't mean the church was on fire. Someone could be doing that just to see people panic and possibly injure each other trying to get out. That's why it's not considered "free" speech.

I've seen interviews of Fred Phelps and my personal feeling is that he is sincere in his hatred. There is a church here in Chicago right up the street that had a "prayer for AIDS" night once a month. Somehow Phelps found out about it and he would show up with signs saying, "Aids is God's cure for gay" and "God hates Fags" and other such things.

Dozens of police had to come and protect Phelps and his group. The church stopped it's vigil after a few such instances.

Phelps is hardcore extreme conservative Christian. He most definitely is NOT liberal.

 

[rdean]

Freedom stops when it infringes upon the right of others.

In this case, the right of the family to honor and mourn their loved ones trumps the freedom of the protestors to speak out against gay rights. The latter have plenty of other forums to express their freedom of speech. The family will bury their fallen soldier only once.

If that were the case, then why shouldn't gays marry?