Fighting for MY Freedoms?

[Auteur]

Try not to ignore the diplomatic nature with which I place my comments. That is, I do not present anything as fact, and I admit I, as well as others, have my biases and that even if I do like SOME things about Ho Chi Minh, not whoever the hell "Uncle Ho" is, I do not agree with the violence. I am simply, like you said, holding everyone, and that includes the U.S., to the same standard. I am not some naive child who couldn't possibly know anything about the world. I have very, very much to learn, but I do not see Ho Chi Minh as a hero in the same way I don't see John F. Kennedy as a hero, or most presidents for that matter. They have some good ideas, and some bad ideas; their commonality is that they all believe committing violent acts in order to achieve peace, which I fundamentally disagree with.

Though I would hope that countries would respect things like the Geneva Convention, those laws on human rights and the rules of war only apply to signatories. I personally do not know whether Hanoi signed on to the treaty, but I seriously doubt a territory that few recognized as a sovereign, functioning area would be able to sign onto such a document. If you want to talk about morality, the United States never signed the Geneva Accord that prohibits indiscriminate bombing of an urban population. Thus, it is each country's decision how they want to handle prisoner's of war and rules of war. Though the United States indeed treats our prisoners quite well in our current wars (mostly), during Vietnam I have no doubt we crossed the line a number of different times.

My personal views on POWs are that it's silly to provide rules as to how they're treated. That may sound offensive to some of you, but what I mean is this. I HOPE they're treated humanely and kept in good condition. But realistically, why would our enemy logically care if they treat theire ENEMY well? This is war, and if in Vietnam we can just burn the hell out of half their country with Napalm, chemicals, and landmines, I think they can rough up some prisoners. Once again; same standard.

It seems to me you are too paranoid about liberal control of media outlets. For instance, CNN and MSNBC are quite liberal, especially MSNBC. However, Fox is notoriously more conservative, and many, MANY, people watch all of those networks. So I see no liberal bias, and if there is, that's more just a genuine social change than a bunch of "libs" behind the scenes pulling the strings; seems a bit elaborate. Once again, I'm not a liberal, and do not wish for you to lump me into that category, nor into a category with democrats.

For the record, I think Stalin was much worse than Hitler. If not just by the numbers (he killed millions more than Hitler), he was also hugely paranoid and committed incredible atrocities against his own people. I do not mean to say that you are wrong about your particular points, but you must not lump people into the same categories. There are very few absolute truths in this world, or absolute falsehoods. Not all liberals believe that Stalin was a good guy (in fact I've never met one).

And no, the ends do not justify the means. I was simply saying that I AGREE with the ends and disagree with the means. Thus, I meant just the opposite.

I'm curious though as to your dislike towards Communists. Is it because of the dictatorships you have witnessed throughout the years that "claim" they follow such an ideology, or is it the teachings themselves? I am not completely well-versed in the theory, but Mao Zedong, Ho Chi Minh, Stalin, etc. did not take their horrible actions directly out of the Karl Marx handbook as far as I know.

Try not to brag so much about your own accomplishments; a little humility goes a long way. I do not deny you have been around longer, or that you have probably done a lot of reading. But we often state opinions here, some backed up by facts and others backed up by bias. Thus, I would appreciate if you just state it plainly and avoid talking down to me or others. People don't particularly enjoy being belittled.

Saying fantastic things such as liking Ho Chi Mihn in a military forum will get you unwanted attention, but you come off as a very fair minded person.

Remeber watching the Wizard of Oz when the Wizard said, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?" That is the same thing the major media is telling you today. I have been looking behind the curtain for awhile now. Here is a basic summary of who controlls what you see and think:

Comcast owns NBC, Telemundo, E Entertainment, Versus, 14 television stations, Universal Pictures, and Hulu. Disney holdings include 10 television stations, 277 radio stations, ABC, ESPN, A&E, the History Channel, Lifetime, Discover magazine, Bassmaster magazine, Hyperion publishing, Touchstone Pictures, Pixar Animation, and Miramax Film Corp. Viacom owns 10 television stations, The Movie Channel, Comedy Central, BET, Nickelodeon, TV Land, MTV, VH1, and Paramount Pictures. CBS owns 30 TV stations, Smithsonian Channel, Showtime, The Movie Channel and Paramount Network Television. News Corp. owns 27 television stations, the Fox Network and Fox News Channel, FX, National Geographic Channel, The Wall Street Journal, TV Guide, the New York Post, DirecTV, the publisher HarperCollins, film production company Twentieth Century Fox and the social networking website MySpace. Time Warner owns HBO, CNN, the Cartoon Network, Warner Bros. Time magazine, Turner Broadcasting and DC Comics.



Currently, six major companies control most of the media in our country. The FCC could decide to relax media ownership rules, which would allow further consolidation and put decisions about what kinds of programming and news Americans receive in even fewer hands.
- See more at: Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause
Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause



Now look at the people throwing the levers, the top descision makers: Viacom: Summer Redstone, Comcast: Brian Roberts, Time Warner: Jeff Bewkes, Disney: Robert Iger, and News Corp: Rubert Murdoch. Only Newscorp's Murdoch is a conservative or Christian. He is half-Jewish and joked, "I'm a Christian, but my wife is a Catholic." In all but Newscorp, Conservative Christians can be found in only tiny, token numbers among the directors, board memebers or controlling shareholders. All the other media giants have not a single conservative Christian in charge of any national new agency, movie studio or large cable channel. Zero.

As far as wartime atrocities go, the leftists in the big media giants have no interest in equal justice. All the atrocities committed by North Koreas, North Vietmanese and especially the Soviet Union will never be brought to attention. In WW2 only the Japs, the Germans and the anyone conscripted to serve under the Axis have ever been convicted of war crimes. Russians POW's imprisioned by the Germans and sent to their deaths in the salt mines after Stalin got his hands on them don't count. Not a single Allied soldier, American, British, Soviet or anyone else has even been held accountable for any of the legion of war crimes committed. This is called "Victor's Justice."

I've given up viewing almost all US media these days, except the NY Times, and occasionally PBS or MSNBC. The right wing bias has become so prevasive that there is no point. They are relentlessly pro-Israel, pro-military, pro-business, and never will ask a hard question of those in authority. During Iraq 2 we had all sorts of features on the workings of cruise missiles, or the wise decisions of military commanders on the ground, and similar, but hardly a question of why it was happening, by anyone. Edward Murrow was likely rolling in his grave.

As for Ho Chi Minh, he may have been a bastard, but the US has never shyed away from dealing with bastards before, and they had the choice in this case. But saying someone is a communist is the same thing as saying they are the anti-christ to an American, and this has caused them untold trouble since 1945.

 

[sambino510]

Saying fantastic things such as liking Ho Chi Mihn in a military forum will get you unwanted attention, but you come off as a very fair minded person.

Remeber watching the Wizard of Oz when the Wizard said, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?" That is the same thing the major media is telling you today. I have been looking behind the curtain for awhile now. Here is a basic summary of who controlls what you see and think:

Comcast owns NBC, Telemundo, E Entertainment, Versus, 14 television stations, Universal Pictures, and Hulu. Disney holdings include 10 television stations, 277 radio stations, ABC, ESPN, A&E, the History Channel, Lifetime, Discover magazine, Bassmaster magazine, Hyperion publishing, Touchstone Pictures, Pixar Animation, and Miramax Film Corp. Viacom owns 10 television stations, The Movie Channel, Comedy Central, BET, Nickelodeon, TV Land, MTV, VH1, and Paramount Pictures. CBS owns 30 TV stations, Smithsonian Channel, Showtime, The Movie Channel and Paramount Network Television. News Corp. owns 27 television stations, the Fox Network and Fox News Channel, FX, National Geographic Channel, The Wall Street Journal, TV Guide, the New York Post, DirecTV, the publisher HarperCollins, film production company Twentieth Century Fox and the social networking website MySpace. Time Warner owns HBO, CNN, the Cartoon Network, Warner Bros. Time magazine, Turner Broadcasting and DC Comics.



Currently, six major companies control most of the media in our country. The FCC could decide to relax media ownership rules, which would allow further consolidation and put decisions about what kinds of programming and news Americans receive in even fewer hands.
- See more at: Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause
Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause



Now look at the people throwing the levers, the top descision makers: Viacom: Summer Redstone, Comcast: Brian Roberts, Time Warner: Jeff Bewkes, Disney: Robert Iger, and News Corp: Rubert Murdoch. Only Newscorp's Murdoch is a conservative or Christian. He is half-Jewish and joked, "I'm a Christian, but my wife is a Catholic." In all but Newscorp, Conservative Christians can be found in only tiny, token numbers among the directors, board memebers or controlling shareholders. All the other media giants have not a single conservative Christian in charge of any national new agency, movie studio or large cable channel. Zero.

As far as wartime atrocities go, the leftists in the big media giants have no interest in equal justice. All the atrocities committed by North Koreas, North Vietmanese and especially the Soviet Union will never be brought to attention. In WW2 only the Japs, the Germans and the anyone conscripted to serve under the Axis have ever been convicted of war crimes. Russians POW's imprisioned by the Germans and sent to their deaths in the salt mines after Stalin got his hands on them don't count. Not a single Allied soldier, American, British, Soviet or anyone else has even been held accountable for any of the legion of war crimes committed. This is called "Victor's Justice."

I've given up viewing almost all US media these days, except the NY Times, and occasionally PBS or MSNBC. The right wing bias has become so prevasive that there is no point. They are relentlessly pro-Israel, pro-military, pro-business, and never will ask a hard question of those in authority. During Iraq 2 we had all sorts of features on the workings of cruise missiles, or the wise decisions of military commanders on the ground, and similar, but hardly a question of why it was happening, by anyone. Edward Murrow was likely rolling in his grave.

As for Ho Chi Minh, he may have been a bastard, but the US has never shyed away from dealing with bastards before, and they had the choice in this case. But saying someone is a communist is the same thing as saying they are the anti-christ to an American, and this has caused them untold trouble since 1945.

CNN is one of the worst if you ask me. I wouldn't say their information is necessarily biased, but they're concerned most with just getting SOME story out there so that they're the first ones, rather than getting the RIGHT story out there. In terms of NY times, I read them too but they're no less biased than anyone else I'd argue; they pretty much stick to the party line. Back when the Iraq war was ramping up they spouted all the information just like everyone else.

 

[Mushroom]

Hah!! And the Officer Class of the US military are corrupt, time-serving, back-stabbers!!

OK, so you have a bigoted and false belief of what the military is, an irrational hatred of those in the military, and whitewash everybody into that. Based only upon your prejudices and preconcieved beliefs.

Noted, and filed away as "extremely biased political individuals with closed minds".

 

[MikeK]

Saying fantastic things such as liking Ho Chi Mihn in a military forum will get you unwanted attention, but you come off as a very fair minded person.

Remeber watching the Wizard of Oz when the Wizard said, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain?" That is the same thing the major media is telling you today. I have been looking behind the curtain for awhile now. Here is a basic summary of who controlls what you see and think:

Comcast owns NBC, Telemundo, E Entertainment, Versus, 14 television stations, Universal Pictures, and Hulu. Disney holdings include 10 television stations, 277 radio stations, ABC, ESPN, A&E, the History Channel, Lifetime, Discover magazine, Bassmaster magazine, Hyperion publishing, Touchstone Pictures, Pixar Animation, and Miramax Film Corp. Viacom owns 10 television stations, The Movie Channel, Comedy Central, BET, Nickelodeon, TV Land, MTV, VH1, and Paramount Pictures. CBS owns 30 TV stations, Smithsonian Channel, Showtime, The Movie Channel and Paramount Network Television. News Corp. owns 27 television stations, the Fox Network and Fox News Channel, FX, National Geographic Channel, The Wall Street Journal, TV Guide, the New York Post, DirecTV, the publisher HarperCollins, film production company Twentieth Century Fox and the social networking website MySpace. Time Warner owns HBO, CNN, the Cartoon Network, Warner Bros. Time magazine, Turner Broadcasting and DC Comics.



Currently, six major companies control most of the media in our country. The FCC could decide to relax media ownership rules, which would allow further consolidation and put decisions about what kinds of programming and news Americans receive in even fewer hands.
- See more at: Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause
Facts On Media In America: Did You Know? - Common Cause



Now look at the people throwing the levers, the top descision makers: Viacom: Summer Redstone, Comcast: Brian Roberts, Time Warner: Jeff Bewkes, Disney: Robert Iger, and News Corp: Rubert Murdoch. Only Newscorp's Murdoch is a conservative or Christian. He is half-Jewish and joked, "I'm a Christian, but my wife is a Catholic." In all but Newscorp, Conservative Christians can be found in only tiny, token numbers among the directors, board memebers or controlling shareholders. All the other media giants have not a single conservative Christian in charge of any national new agency, movie studio or large cable channel. Zero.

As far as wartime atrocities go, the leftists in the big media giants have no interest in equal justice. All the atrocities committed by North Koreas, North Vietmanese and especially the Soviet Union will never be brought to attention. In WW2 only the Japs, the Germans and the anyone conscripted to serve under the Axis have ever been convicted of war crimes. Russians POW's imprisioned by the Germans and sent to their deaths in the salt mines after Stalin got his hands on them don't count. Not a single Allied soldier, American, British, Soviet or anyone else has even been held accountable for any of the legion of war crimes committed. This is called "Victor's Justice."

This is important information. Thanks for posting it.

 

[MikeK]

Of course, that is your opinion, and opinions are like... well, you know how that saying goes.

There is an old saying in the military, it goes "Respect the rank if not the man". I may think that Staff Sergeant Smith and Lieutenant Jones are both dumber then the south bound end of a north bound horse, but I will still give them the respect their rank and position warrants. I do not have to like them, I do not even have to respect them as individuals, but I will treat them with the dignity and respect of that office or position.

[...]

That's because you've exchanged your Constitutional freedoms for an enlistment bonus and free room and board. So don't boast about something you have no control over. You have no choice but to obey the orders of nitwits and to salute moral inferiors and exalted scoundrels (like Colin Powell) or they will march you off to the brig and torture you for a few months.

 

[Auteur]

CNN is one of the worst if you ask me. I wouldn't say their information is necessarily biased, but they're concerned most with just getting SOME story out there so that they're the first ones, rather than getting the RIGHT story out there. In terms of NY times, I read them too but they're no less biased than anyone else I'd argue; they pretty much stick to the party line. Back when the Iraq war was ramping up they spouted all the information just like everyone else.

Yes, this is so. It is very slim pickings in the US media. I find the difference between Canadian or European media, and US equivalents, to be quite shocking. Here journalists will tear into politicians, second guess everything they say, and ridicule foolish ideas. In the US, many subjects are now virtually off limits. Few tough questions are asked about Iraq or afghanistan, about the power of the corporate lobby in Washington, about the migration of wealth and power into ever fewer hands, about the dysfunctional relationship with Israel, and others. I have to laugh when I hear the silly claim that the media is run by "liberals" (what the rest of the world would call center-left social democrats).

 

[Mushroom]

That's because you've exchanged your Constitutional freedoms for an enlistment bonus and free room and board. So don't boast about something you have no control over. You have no choice but to obey the orders of nitwits and to salute moral inferiors and exalted scoundrels (like Colin Powell) or they will march you off to the brig and torture you for a few months.

Say what?

Well, out of the 5 times I chose to raise my hand, I only got that bonus twice. I have long told anybody that enlists/reenlists for a bonus, they are idiots. And I was married every single time I reenlisted, so what "free room and board" are you talking about?

I pretty much had to live in the worst parts of town, because it was the only place I could afford to live. Compton, East El Paso, Richlands, Central Vallejo, pretty much all garbage neighborhoods. This is because the "housing allowance" is largely a joke, based upon economic conditions years earlier (I still laugh remembering them telling me in North Carolina I could rent a 2 bedroom house for $350, that would not even get a craphole 1 bedroom apartment).

And that chow hall ain't free my friend if you are married. As much as it cost, I choose to pay an extra buck and go to Burger King.

ROFL, and no, you are not "marched off to the brig". People who can't follow orders are simply kicked out. To go to "the brig", you have to do something really serious, like theft, assault, or some other crime that is rated as a felony.

And most bases do not have brigs anymore, have not had them for over a decade. Most military inmates for terms of less then 1 year are held in County Jails. For example, if you need to go to "the brig" at either Fort Bliss or Holloman Air Force Base, you are actually incarcerated at the Otero County Jail in New Mexico.

But I would love to hear more about US military prisoners being tortured.

 

[MikeK]

That's because you've exchanged your Constitutional freedoms for an enlistment bonus and free room and board. So don't boast about something you have no control over. You have no choice but to obey the orders of nitwits and to salute moral inferiors and exalted scoundrels (like Colin Powell) or they will march you off to the brig and torture you for a few months.

Say what?

Well, out of the 5 times I chose to raise my hand, I only got that bonus twice. I have long told anybody that enlists/reenlists for a bonus, they are idiots. And I was married every single time I reenlisted, so what "free room and board" are you talking about?

I pretty much had to live in the worst parts of town, because it was the only place I could afford to live. Compton, East El Paso, Richlands, Central Vallejo, pretty much all garbage neighborhoods. This is because the "housing allowance" is largely a joke, based upon economic conditions years earlier (I still laugh remembering them telling me in North Carolina I could rent a 2 bedroom house for $350, that would not even get a craphole 1 bedroom apartment).

And that chow hall ain't free my friend if you are married. As much as it cost, I choose to pay an extra buck and go to Burger King.

ROFL, and no, you are not "marched off to the brig". People who can't follow orders are simply kicked out. To go to "the brig", you have to do something really serious, like theft, assault, or some other crime that is rated as a felony.

And most bases do not have brigs anymore, have not had them for over a decade. Most military inmates for terms of less then 1 year are held in County Jails. For example, if you need to go to "the brig" at either Fort Bliss or Holloman Air Force Base, you are actually incarcerated at the Otero County Jail in New Mexico.

But I would love to hear more about US military prisoners being tortured.

For that you'd need to go back to Parris Island of the fifties and beyond -- or any Marine Corps brig of that era.

It appears the U.S. military has changed a bit since my time. But I'm quite sure the same rules apply to obeying orders and demonstrating submissive respect to anything that shines. Because a military cannot function within its essential purpose without such requirements.

 

[numan]

And most bases do not have brigs anymore, have not had them for over a decade.

I see your point. What need for brigs when the entire military is a vast system of gulag concentration camps where the inmates are dosed with poisonous chemicals and poisonous brainwashing.

But I would love to hear more about US military prisoners being tortured.

Bradley Manning.

.

 

[Mushroom]

I see your point. What need for brigs when the entire military is a vast system of gulag concentration camps where the inmates are dosed with poisonous chemicals and poisonous brainwashing.

Bradley Manning.

Concentration camp? Inmates? Sheesh, get off the pipe already. It is obvious you know absolutely nothing about the military.

And Bradley Manning? The guy who is in jail awaiting trial for breaking the law? Let's see, the closest I have heard of him being tortured is that he is on suicide watch and in solitary.

Well, the first is reasonable. As for the second, that is for his own protection.

Much as child molesters and cops are segregated in prison for their own protection, the same goes for PFC Manning. What do you think his life expectancy would be in the "General Population"? If he was not in solitary, we would not be awaiting his trial because he would already be dead at the hands of other inmates.

 

[sambino510]

I see your point. What need for brigs when the entire military is a vast system of gulag concentration camps where the inmates are dosed with poisonous chemicals and poisonous brainwashing.

Bradley Manning.

Concentration camp? Inmates? Sheesh, get off the pipe already. It is obvious you know absolutely nothing about the military.

And Bradley Manning? The guy who is in jail awaiting trial for breaking the law? Let's see, the closest I have heard of him being tortured is that he is on suicide watch and in solitary.

Well, the first is reasonable. As for the second, that is for his own protection.

Much as child molesters and cops are segregated in prison for their own protection, the same goes for PFC Manning. What do you think his life expectancy would be in the "General Population"? If he was not in solitary, we would not be awaiting his trial because he would already be dead at the hands of other inmates.

I personally don't know a whole lot about the Bradley Manning situation, but why would other inmates want to kill him? I agree with having him on suicide watch, but I'm just curious why he's in danger of being killed.

 

[sambino510]

And most bases do not have brigs anymore, have not had them for over a decade.

I see your point. What need for brigs when the entire military is a vast system of gulag concentration camps where the inmates are dosed with poisonous chemicals and poisonous brainwashing.

But I would love to hear more about US military prisoners being tortured.

Bradley Manning.

.

I've agreed with a lot of what you've said here and appreciate you giving me some positive feedback. However, these accusations against the AVERAGE military soldier seem baseless and a bit offensive, as well as completely off topic. There are many nefarious things the military does in its missions (I would argue) but the soldiers themselves can't be blamed. They are not brainwashed with "chemicals". Anyways, my point being you can state your opinion but comments making generalizations about the military tend to draw some flak.

 

[sambino510]

CNN is one of the worst if you ask me. I wouldn't say their information is necessarily biased, but they're concerned most with just getting SOME story out there so that they're the first ones, rather than getting the RIGHT story out there. In terms of NY times, I read them too but they're no less biased than anyone else I'd argue; they pretty much stick to the party line. Back when the Iraq war was ramping up they spouted all the information just like everyone else.

Yes, this is so. It is very slim pickings in the US media. I find the difference between Canadian or European media, and US equivalents, to be quite shocking. Here journalists will tear into politicians, second guess everything they say, and ridicule foolish ideas. In the US, many subjects are now virtually off limits. Few tough questions are asked about Iraq or afghanistan, about the power of the corporate lobby in Washington, about the migration of wealth and power into ever fewer hands, about the dysfunctional relationship with Israel, and others. I have to laugh when I hear the silly claim that the media is run by "liberals" (what the rest of the world would call center-left social democrats).

Probably my biggest frustration about the media is indeed the "Israel" aspect. Once you bring that up though, people start thinking you're an anti-semite, or one of those crazy Jew-haters who think the media is owned by Jewish companies or something. Nobody asks questions about WHY Israel is our ally or WHY we should give them money.

 

[MikeK]

I see your point. What need for brigs when the entire military is a vast system of gulag concentration camps where the inmates are dosed with poisonous chemicals and poisonous brainwashing.

Bradley Manning.

Concentration camp? Inmates? Sheesh, get off the pipe already. It is obvious you know absolutely nothing about the military.

And Bradley Manning? The guy who is in jail awaiting trial for breaking the law? Let's see, the closest I have heard of him being tortured is that he is on suicide watch and in solitary.

My understanding of solitary confinement on suicide watch is a totally barren cell, i.e., nothing but an open steel toilet and flat steel cot which is welded to the wall and covered by a 2" hard-rubber mattress. The inmate is stripped naked (to preclude fabrication of a strangling implement). The walls and ceiling are painted white or pale green, the inacessible fluorescent ceiling light remains on constantly. The heat is kept high (to compensate for the lack of clothing). No reading or writing materials are permitted (to prevent strangling by swallowing). Sleeping is not permitted during daytime hours when the inmate is required to remain standing or sitting. When asleep, the inmate is awakened by a guard every hour to maintain suicide watch.

The only relief from this constant barrenness is a daily one hour "exercise" period in which the inmate is removed from his cell and placed in a larger, equally barren area with a semi-inflated basketball and hoop. The penalty for uncooperative behavior is the straight-jacket or restraining sheet.

How long do you think you could tolerate that before wishing to exchange it for a broken leg, ears-to-testicles electrocution, or some old-fashioned water-boarding? It is a well-established fact that psychological torture is far more agonizing than the physical kind, which the mind can evade via unconsciousness.

Well, the first is reasonable. As for the second, that is for his own protection.

Much as child molesters and cops are segregated in prison for their own protection, the same goes for PFC Manning. What do you think his life expectancy would be in the "General Population"? If he was not in solitary, we would not be awaiting his trial because he would already be dead at the hands of other inmates.

What Manning did was blow the whistle on the Man, and the typical prison inmate is not known for extreme right-wing patriotism. So I don't think he would have a problem in the general population.

 

[Mushroom]

I personally don't know a whole lot about the Bradley Manning situation, but why would other inmates want to kill him? I agree with having him on suicide watch, but I'm just curious why he's in danger of being killed.

Think about it. Mr. Manning is in a military prison. Where every inmate is a member of the military. And while they have done crimes that are severe enough to land them in prison (rape, murder, assault, etc), they are all still members of the military (until they get out), and most would place somebody like PFC Manning on a list for being killed.

Just like former cops in jail. Or people who commit crimes against children, he is kept in isolation for his own protection. Imagine what 2 or 3 Iraq-Afghanistan vets who really were fighting would think of somebody who sat in a tent and turned over to civilians papers that damaged their reputation, and maybe even got some of their comrades killed?

And MikeK, what do you think most prisons are like? Holiday Inns? I do not know if you have ever spent time in jail, I have. And guess what the conditions were like?

Totally barren cell, i.e., nothing but an open steel toilet and flat steel cot which is welded to the wall and covered by a 2" hard-rubber mattress. The walls and ceiling are painted white or pale green, the inaccessible fluorescent ceiling light remains on constantly.

And guess what happened every time I was taken out of my cell and taken to another part of the facility?

I was stripped naked and given a thorough search (even "body cavity").

I just wish I could have been in that cell alone, instead of locked up with 3-5 other people (this was a 4 man cell, 2 sleeping on the floor was not unusual).

So I really don't get what you are whining about there. That is typical conditions in any jail or prison around the country.

 

[Survivalist]

CNN is one of the worst if you ask me. I wouldn't say their information is necessarily biased, but they're concerned most with just getting SOME story out there so that they're the first ones, rather than getting the RIGHT story out there. In terms of NY times, I read them too but they're no less biased than anyone else I'd argue; they pretty much stick to the party line. Back when the Iraq war was ramping up they spouted all the information just like everyone else.

Yes, this is so. It is very slim pickings in the US media. I find the difference between Canadian or European media, and US equivalents, to be quite shocking. Here journalists will tear into politicians, second guess everything they say, and ridicule foolish ideas. In the US, many subjects are now virtually off limits. Few tough questions are asked about Iraq or afghanistan, about the power of the corporate lobby in Washington, about the migration of wealth and power into ever fewer hands, about the dysfunctional relationship with Israel, and others. I have to laugh when I hear the silly claim that the media is run by "liberals" (what the rest of the world would call center-left social democrats).

Probably my biggest frustration about the media is indeed the "Israel" aspect. Once you bring that up though, people start thinking you're an anti-semite, or one of those crazy Jew-haters who think the media is owned by Jewish companies or something. Nobody asks questions about WHY Israel is our ally or WHY we should give them money.

Why do you think most of the media is so pro-Israel? Are they more pro-Israel, or more pro-Jewish? I wonder why some Hollywood types try to change their names, like from Rothstein to Redstone? Anyway, only a neo-Nazi or Islamic terrorist, or similar fruitcake would think that Jews run 75% of US media industy and are only 2% of the US population. These people must be crazy to put this out:

Who Controls Big Media? | Who Controls America?

Anyway, if there really were that many Jews in power in the entertainment industry, then they would naturally focus their bais against Nazis or any ethic Germans (their most hated enemies) by putting out hundreds of anti-German war films and Holocaust programs. And naturally being far left-of-center, they would have almost no films putting Communists, particularly Soviets, in a bad light. I haven't seen any evidence of this. So there is nothing to see here, move along.

 

[MikeK]

So I really don't get what you are whining about there. That is typical conditions in any jail or prison around the country.

What is? Being locked in a barren cell 23 hours a day with absolutely no diversions? That is psychological torture by any standard. And to say it is typical in any jail or prison is evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

While I've never served time in a prison or jail my occupation afforded familiarity with conditions in some of the most active correctional facilities in the Nation. And except for relatively brief periods of punitive segregation (barren solitary confinement), which by medical recommendation is limited to thirty consecutive days and rarely exceeds ten, the typical prison inmate is ordinarily afforded access to radio, television, occasionial movies, and reading and writing materials. Sentenced prisoners have jobs, engage in sports activities, enjoy visits and occasional telephone calls. And all prison inmates are not confined to cells. Some are housed under dormitory conditions.

I recommend you go here for a bit of basic education on this topic, which you clearly are in need of: Torture: The Use of Solitary Confinement in U.S. Prisons | Center for Constitutional Rights

 

[MikeK]

I personally don't know a whole lot about the Bradley Manning situation, but why would other inmates want to kill him? I agree with having him on suicide watch, but I'm just curious why he's in danger of being killed.

Think about it. Mr. Manning is in a military prison. Where every inmate is a member of the military. And while they have done crimes that are severe enough to land them in prison (rape, murder, assault, etc), they are all still members of the military (until they get out), and most would place somebody like PFC Manning on a list for being killed.

Why? What exactly did Manning do which you regard as comparable to child molestation?

All I've read and heard suggests only that Manning outed "classified" information which is embarrassing to a lot of high-level military brass and some politicians. And while the Administration likes to say the information he released is useful to "the enemy," I am yet to hear just who "the enemy" is. Maybe you can tell us.

Could be Manning will be regarded as a kind of folk hero by imprisoned military personnel -- few, if any, of whom have any affection for the military.

 

[Mushroom]

What is? Being locked in a barren cell 23 hours a day with absolutely no diversions? That is psychological torture by any standard. And to say it is typical in any jail or prison is evidence you don't know what you're talking about.

Errr, then feel free to go spend some time in the LA County Jail. I had a 45 day vacation there a few years ago. 4 man cells, no radio, no TVs, only let out 1 hour every 3 days for shouwer, and 1 hour a week for time in "the yard" (actually, the roof).

And I did not talk about prison, I talked about jail. People who are being held in confinement pre-trial are in jail. People who have been convicted are in either a Prison or Penitentiary (unless their sentences are so short they serve them in the jail). And I am not aware of any jails that allow radios and TVs. That is generally something you can not have unless you are in a prison or penitentiary.

And yea, I know more then a bit about the system myself. Been there and done that, son in and out for years, and the company I work for is in over 100 facilities around the country (from City all the way to Federal facilities). I literally talk on a daily basis to not only prison staff but inmates and detainees as well.