Fighting Blind in Iraq

M

mrsx

Guest
This Op-Ed in the NYT of 06/07/05 spells out the challenge of overcoming the insurgents in Iraq. My question: how are we going to turn this thing around?

INSURGENCIES and counterinsurgencies are, above all, intelligence wars - for both sides. Insurgents are invariably at a disadvantage in terms of troops and firepower. They survive only if they have superior information, which they derive from broad popular support. This support - whether voluntary or coerced - allows them to hit, run and hide; to kill and survive to kill again. Their effort collapses when their opponents possess superior information.

Thus in Iraq, the American and Iraqi counterinsurgents face two key tasks: they must collect intelligence on the insurgents, and they must prevent the insurgents from collecting intelligence on their own troops. Though there have been a few successes, the weight of evidence suggests that the Americans and Iraqis are failing on both counts.

The insurgents have very good information. Many reports suggest that they have operatives within the Iraqi security organizations and bureaucracies. They also have a vast network of observers who simply watch what the security forces do everyday and report what they see to insurgent gunmen. Assassinations of Iraqi government officials, including senior security officials, and ambushes of security forces reveal a formidable intelligence apparatus. Car bombs seem to be regularly directed at American convoys; the insurgents must know their routes and their schedules.

Most American and joint military operations have proved indecisive and costly, as scores of insurgents somehow slip away - often after seeding their hideaways with improvised explosive devices. Sabotage of oil pipelines and electricity plants appears to be carefully aimed at chokepoints - suggesting a knowledge not only of how the energy system was put together but also of just where it is now experiencing problems.

In terms of collecting intelligence about the insurgents, things are no better. Since the Iraqi election, American officials have treated the news media to stories about how much more information Iraqis are providing. This may be true, but it is not nearly enough. In late March, just before the recent flurry of bombings in and around Baghdad, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld told reporters that his "metrics" and "indicators" were improving. It is clear then, that the recent bombing campaign, which has killed more than 700 people, was a surprise.

Many of the suicide bombers seem to be foreigners, particularly Saudis. Saudi Arabia is ostensibly a regional ally of the United States, a partner in the global war on terrorism. Yet the flow of suicide bombers across the border has not been stopped. This is an intelligence failure.

Finally, we must ask how it is that the group led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi - sometimes referred to as Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia - which is ostensibly a small group of foreigners, manages to sustain its operations throughout central Iraq. Local residents must be providing these foreign terrorists with food, shelter and information about American and Iraqi troop movements.

The main reason that the intelligence campaign is going badly is that the insurgency is more deeply entrenched in Iraqi society than American and Iraqi officials have acknowledged. Perhaps tens of thousands of supporters of the Baath Party, including many security officers from the old regime, live amid their 5 million Sunni Arab kinsmen. These people resent their loss of status and power, and this anger, combined with blood ties, provides plenty of supporters for the insurgents. Newly awakened religious feelings have been a double-edged sword - while faith has provided emotional succor to some Iraqi Sunnis, it has also led to increased support to religious fanatics like Mr. Zarqawi.

American and Iraqi security officials know full well that they need to solve these intelligence problems. In principle there are three ways to do so - but all three present grave difficulties in Iraq.

First, one can try to place informers within the resistance, men who can eavesdrop on the terrorists' communications and pass word to the government. Unfortunately, because many Sunnis live in traditional extended families, or served together under Saddam Hussein, they know whom they can and cannot trust and they can police one another very well. In addition, by now they probably know from hard experience how to foil or evade electronic listening devices. It is unlikely that the intelligence campaign can be won through a series of small successes.

Another approach is to saturate the insurgents' stronghold areas with troops and police officers - mainly to observe every possible insurgent move and protect the citizens who support the government. The problem is that this requires a lot of manpower, and American troop strength has never been remotely sufficient. Moreover, unless the troops are very well trained and kept under tight control, this tactic can backfire, as the locals come to resent the presence of clumsy foreigners.

SOME hold out hope that Iraqi police and soldiers can take on this task, but this too is improbable. Even if all 160,000 members of these forces were sent to known areas of insurgent activity - which cannot be done, since many are local police officers and militia members from other parts of Iraq - the total would be insufficient. Besides, relatively few Sunni Arabs have enlisted, so these predominantly Shiite and Kurdish security forces are as likely as the Americans to antagonize the populations of the restive areas.

The third strategy is to win the intelligence campaign wholesale - largely through politics. American officials often remind the Shiites that most of the Sunni population still needs to be drawn into mainstream politics and away from active and passive support of violence. Yes, the Shiites have made some concessions, like giving Sunnis top ministry posts. Yet the cold mathematics of democracy works against further inclusion; Sunnis are outvoted 4 to 1, and their daily interactions with government and the military already enhance their perception that indignities will come of this disparity.

Those who wish to "stay the course" in Iraq need a plausible strategy of victory in the intelligence campaign. The usual methods either have not worked or are unlikely to work. Unless the American and Iraqi government forces can deprive the terrorists of their local supporters and the intelligence they provide, they are in for a long, indecisive struggle.
 
-=d=- said:
mrsx won't be happy until every last US soldier, marine, airman, or sailor is dead.
I think you deliberately miss my point. I don't want another service person to die needlessly in Iraq. If there is anything to this fellow's points (and he is a poly-sci prof. at MIT, not on the NYT board) then we must win the intelligence war. Simply feeding our young soldiers and Marines into the meat grinder by twos and threes is bad strategy. There is more than one way to "support the troops." When you have made a bad mistake, retreat and regroup. I can just see all you guys drinking beer on a hilltop overlooking the Little Big Horn and cheering on Gen. Custer. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they are all heroes; this old lady prefers live heroes to dead ones.
 
mrsx said:
I think you deliberately miss my point. I don't want another service person to die needlessly in Iraq. If there is anything to this fellow's points (and he is a poly-sci prof. at MIT, not on the NYT board) then we must win the intelligence war. Simply feeding our young soldiers and Marines into the meat grinder by twos and threes is bad strategy. There is more than one way to "support the troops." When you have made a bad mistake, retreat and regroup. I can just see all you guys drinking beer on a hilltop overlooking the Little Big Horn and cheering on Gen. Custer. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they are all heroes; this old lady prefers live heroes to dead ones.


If you are saying we should withdraw from Iraq to work solely on Intel, I would disagree vehemently. This would only show that the US is willing to allow another Dictatorship to gain ascendancy and the freedoms of the people we are attempting to help really didn't matter. This would be giving the evidence needed to get even more radicals to join the bin Laden ranks.

If you are saying we need to spend more on HUMINT, then I would agree just as vehemently.
 
mrsx said:
I think you deliberately miss my point. I don't want another service person to die needlessly in Iraq. If there is anything to this fellow's points (and he is a poly-sci prof. at MIT, not on the NYT board)

He probably just had Chomsky ghostwrite it for him :rolleyes:
 
mrsx said:
I think you deliberately miss my point. I don't want another service person to die needlessly in Iraq. If there is anything to this fellow's points (and he is a poly-sci prof. at MIT, not on the NYT board) then we must win the intelligence war. Simply feeding our young soldiers and Marines into the meat grinder by twos and threes is bad strategy. There is more than one way to "support the troops." When you have made a bad mistake, retreat and regroup. I can just see all you guys drinking beer on a hilltop overlooking the Little Big Horn and cheering on Gen. Custer. I've said it before and I'll say it again: they are all heroes; this old lady prefers live heroes to dead ones.



Translation: I don't want any other nation to enjoy the freedoms we do, in the USA. No other nation is worth our sons' and daughters' lives. I'm glad people like you are in the minority - You're worthless. :(
 
-=d=- said:
Translation: I don't want any other nation to enjoy the freedoms we do, in the USA. No other nation is worth our sons' and daughters' lives. I'm glad people like you are in the minority - You're worthless. :(
You can't give freedom. It has to be taken. The Muslims we are killing don't want our kind of freedom - freedom to do whatever the individual wants. They want the freedom that sets you free - free to follow the Holy Koran. I'm not sure, but I don't think it is the responsibility of our President to sacrifice the lives of our citizens for the presumed welfare of some other country. He takes an oath to protect and defend our Constitution, not to lead others to the light. If Bush had said, "I'm going to get our sons and daughters killed to help our the Arabs," it would have been refreshing and you gung-ho types would have been the first to call for his scalp. You are only singing "Onward, Christian Soldiers" because all the other lies, excuses and rationales for this bloody fantasy have failed. I don't remember hearing you sound so noble over Haiti or Kosovo or Darfur. Could it be that is because they have no oil in those trouble spots?
 
mrsx said:
You can't give freedom. It has to be taken. The Muslims we are killing don't want our kind of freedom - freedom to do whatever the individual wants. They want the freedom that sets you free - free to follow the Holy Koran. I'm not sure, but I don't think it is the responsibility of our President to sacrifice the lives of our citizens for the presumed welfare of some other country. He takes an oath to protect and defend our Constitution, not to lead others to the light. If Bush had said, "I'm going to get our sons and daughters killed to help our the Arabs," it would have been refreshing and you gung-ho types would have been the first to call for his scalp. You are only singing "Onward, Christian Soldiers" because all the other lies, excuses and rationales for this bloody fantasy have failed. I don't remember hearing you sound so noble over Haiti or Kosovo or Darfur. Could it be that is because they have no oil in those trouble spots?


You are high. :puke:
 
no1tovote4 said:
If you are saying we should withdraw from Iraq to work solely on Intel, I would disagree vehemently. This would only show that the US is willing to allow another Dictatorship to gain ascendancy and the freedoms of the people we are attempting to help really didn't matter. This would be giving the evidence needed to get even more radicals to join the bin Laden ranks.

If you are saying we need to spend more on HUMINT, then I would agree just as vehemently.
HUMINT has been sadly neglected in favor of gagetry. I remember back in the last Gulf War being told that Saddam was hiding his SCUDs under bridges so we couldn't find them. Duh! As the NYT article explains, HUMINT isn't going to be easy to get from the Saddamists. Parachuting in agents simply doesn't work in tribal or totalitarian societies. It takes years to develop sympathetic contacts among the insiders. That's how we got the HUMINT from the Soviets - not from James Bond stuff. Alas, the wholesale alienation of moderate Arabs abroad and Arab-Americans here means this path is going to take years to get going. In the meantime, are we going to continue to waste the lives of our military in the alleys of Baghdad? We might be doing a better job with Muslim soldiers from Morocco, Pakistan or Jordan if we had let the U.N. or the Arab League get up front instead of going it alone like Yosemite Sam. Now we have no friends in the Arab world or even in the larger Muslim world. Tragic bungling by self-confident fools. They should have listened to Scowcroft, Kissinger & Co.
 
mrsx said:
If Bush had said, "I'm going to get our sons and daughters killed to help our the Arabs," it would have been refreshing and you gung-ho types would have been the first to call for his scalp. You are only singing "Onward, Christian Soldiers" because all the other lies, excuses and rationales for this bloody fantasy have failed. I don't remember hearing you sound so noble over Haiti or Kosovo or Darfur. Could it be that is because they have no oil in those trouble spots?

I think you're missing one fundamental, unarguable principle of warfare. That principle is as old and as basic as war itself. The French forgot about it when they tried to hide behind their Maginot line. The principle to which I refer is that one does not win a war by hiding behind defenses. One does not win a war by allowing the enemy to come onto his home ground to do battle in our own country. One wins wars by carrying the battle to the enemy's country and defeating them there.

So while Pres. Bush may be making all the politically correct noises about helping Arabs, I believe that he does this mainly to appease the idiotic left which believes that war for any reason is wrong. These are the same folks who are still scratching their heads wondering what we should do to apologize to muslims for whatever acts forced these peace loving people to kill more than 3000 of our citizens.

Thank your lucky stars that Bush was President on 9-11 and not I. Had I had the power, the nukes would have been on the way less than two hours after the attacks on the WTC. That's another principle of war we forget about - if you're going to fight, and fight to win, you have to be more ruthless, more merciless and more savage than your enemy. I know that is an unpopular view these days, but it's still the truth.

And please don't hand me any of that tired old crap about "That makes us as bad as them". If we're going to kick their asses, we have to be WORSE than them.
 
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mrsx said:
You can't give freedom. It has to be taken. The Muslims we are killing don't want our kind of freedom - freedom to do whatever the individual wants. They want the freedom that sets you free - free to follow the Holy Koran. I'm not sure, but I don't think it is the responsibility of our President to sacrifice the lives of our citizens for the presumed welfare of some other country. He takes an oath to protect and defend our Constitution, not to lead others to the light. If Bush had said, "I'm going to get our sons and daughters killed to help our the Arabs," it would have been refreshing and you gung-ho types would have been the first to call for his scalp. You are only singing "Onward, Christian Soldiers" because all the other lies, excuses and rationales for this bloody fantasy have failed. I don't remember hearing you sound so noble over Haiti or Kosovo or Darfur. Could it be that is because they have no oil in those trouble spots?

That would depend entirely on whether or not their welfare takes on significance in defending our country as it does with the fight on terrorism. The largest reason that we face these enemies today is the US's total disregard for the human rights of these people for over 50 years after the end of WWII. The State Dept. made it policy to create "stability" over any sort of human right, this gave rise to "allies" like Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, the Saudi Princes, etc. This coupled with the way we seem to support Israel in every action that they take, even when directly in opposition with human rights according to the view of the Muslims, makes us in to hypocritical money-grubbers and creates much of the enmity now found between our people.

At the end of WWII, the muslim street was excited about the prospect of having the support of the US to help build freedoms into their societies, these hopes were dashed on our policy of "stability", we cannot continue to work with failed policy and ignore the fact we have more responsibility in the region than you are giving us. We can no longer afford to look the other way so long as we get the oil.
 
Merlin1047 said:
I think you're missing one fundamental, unarguable principle of warfare. That principle is as old and as basic as war itself. The French forgot about it when they tried to hide behind their Maginot line. The principle to which I refer is that one does not win a war by hiding behind defenses. One does not win a war by allowing the enemy to come onto his home ground to do battle in our own country. One wins wars by carrying the battle to the enemy's country and defeating them there.

So while Pres. Bush may be making all the politically correct noises about helping Arabs, I believe that he does this mainly to appease the idiotic left which believes that war for any reason is wrong. These are the same folks who are still scratching their heads wondering what we should do to apologize to muslims for whatever acts forced these peace loving people to kill more than 3000 of our citizens.

Thank your lucky stars that Bush was President on 9-11 and not I. Had I had the power, the nukes would have been on the way less than two hours after the attacks on the WTC. That's another principle of war we forget about - if you're going to fight, and fight to win, you have to be more ruthless, more merciless and more savage than your enemy. I know that is an unpopular view these days, but it's still the truth.

And please don't hand me any of that tired old crap about "That makes us as bad as them". If we're going to kick their asses, we have to be WORSE than them.
Hey, I'm not going to hand you that tired old crap - I agree with you. There is another fundamental principle that we ignored: never divide your forces in the face of the enemy. We should have stayed focused on Afghanistan, where we had Osama cornered at Tora Bora. Grab him, stretch rope, mop up and *then* let's see about Saddam & Co. No one disputed our right to chase bin Laden into his lair or to go get him once the Taliban refused to hand him over. From what we have learned since, Saddam was ready to cut a deal for exile. He would have been doubly glad to do so after a U.S. victory in Afghanistan. We could have let him go, put a reform Baathist/exile government in place in Iraq. Then Saddam could have a tragic car crash or whatever in Lybia. Bush and his generals botched the job; my gripe is that it is the boots on the ground that are paying the price for it.
 
-=d=- said:
You are high. :puke:
Brilliant riposte! You must be taking debating lessons from the Evil One. While I don't discuss my state of consciousness with children or strangers (so you are SOL twice) it is clear that high or not, I have a better grasp of the issues than anything suggested by your juvenile mewling.
 
mrsx said:
Hey, I'm not going to hand you that tired old crap - I agree with you. There is another fundamental principle that we ignored: never divide your forces in the face of the enemy. We should have stayed focused on Afghanistan, where we had Osama cornered at Tora Bora. Grab him, stretch rope, mop up and *then* let's see about Saddam & Co. No one disputed our right to chase bin Laden into his lair or to go get him once the Taliban refused to hand him over. From what we have learned since, Saddam was ready to cut a deal for exile. He would have been doubly glad to do so after a U.S. victory in Afghanistan. We could have let him go, put a reform Baathist/exile government in place in Iraq. Then Saddam could have a tragic car crash or whatever in Lybia. Bush and his generals botched the job; my gripe is that it is the boots on the ground that are paying the price for it.

One should not divide one's forces, unless one has such overwhelming superiority that one can afford to. And we do. So we did. And lo and behold, we won both wars and are winning the peace.
 
mrsx said:
Hey, I'm not going to hand you that tired old crap - I agree with you. There is another fundamental principle that we ignored: never divide your forces in the face of the enemy. We should have stayed focused on Afghanistan, where we had Osama cornered at Tora Bora. Grab him, stretch rope, mop up and *then* let's see about Saddam & Co. No one disputed our right to chase bin Laden into his lair or to go get him once the Taliban refused to hand him over. From what we have learned since, Saddam was ready to cut a deal for exile. He would have been doubly glad to do so after a U.S. victory in Afghanistan. We could have let him go, put a reform Baathist/exile government in place in Iraq. Then Saddam could have a tragic car crash or whatever in Lybia. Bush and his generals botched the job; my gripe is that it is the boots on the ground that are paying the price for it.

Well, I can't argue with that. While I support the President, I am not particularly impressed with the performance of his administration. We should have had Bin Laden's head on a pike by now, but for some reason killing the worst enemy of this country no longer seems to be our main focus and I find that highly questionable.

I agree with the fact that our intel has been poor, but we can't blame that on the Bush administration. The failings of our CIA and our spy network goes back decades. Unfortunately we can't wait to start fighting terrorism until we fix our intel. Like Rumsfeld said "We have to go to war with the army we have". Likewise we have to make do with the intel system we have, not the one we wish we had.
 
gop_jeff said:
One should not divide one's forces, unless one has such overwhelming superiority that one can afford to. And we do. So we did. And lo and behold, we won both wars and are winning the peace.

I don't know how well we're doing in Afghanistan. We didn't capture Bin Laden, they are now the worlds largest supplier of Opium, and it seems there are quite a few warlords running around. To me, that doesn't exactly sound like that country is under our control.
 
mrsx said:
Brilliant riposte! You must be taking debating lessons from the Evil One. While I don't discuss my state of consciousness with children or strangers (so you are SOL twice) it is clear that high or not, I have a better grasp of the issues than anything suggested by your juvenile mewling.



Translation:

"I have tons of back-copies of DU.com's 'talking points' from which to spout."

You aren't fooling anyone. Would you prefer me to lay the proverbial smack down? What good would it do? You're clinically insane anyway; twood be a waste of bandwidth.
 

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