Fight Over Fracking

[rdean]

. The fracking itself occurs deep underground, where most of the fracturing and propping open of cracks is accomplished with treated water and sand. This water also returns to the surface, laden with chemicals. Early this week, staffers working for the House Energy and Commerce Committee found that 14 hydraulic fracturing companies used 866 million gallons of products, hundreds of which contained chemicals that are or might be carcinogenic or are listed as hazardous air pollutants. Laced with a variety of common (benzene, toluene) and custom (proprietary) chemicals, this water is a liability and a cost as soon as it comes out of the ground.

In Pennsylvania, where Fox filmed some of his documentary, coal mining was the first energy rush. Some coal mines caught fire, and at least one there has never stopped burning. The town above it remains abandoned. The gas industry fortunately doesn’t face runaway fires and ghost towns, so we can call it progress.

Manufacturing.net

The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America.

Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.

 

[Toronado3800]

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[Ragnar]

Environmentalists Were For Fracking Before They Were Against It - Reason Magazine

Given its greenhouse gas benefits, environmental activists initially welcomed shale gas. For example, in August 2009 prominent liberals Timothy Wirth and John Podesta, writing on behalf of the Energy Future Coalition, hailed shale gas as “a bridge fuel to a 21st-century energy economy that relies on efficiency, renewable sources, and low-carbon fossil fuels such as natural gas.” The same year, environmentalist Robert Kennedy, Jr., head of the Waterkeeper Alliance, declared in the Financial Times, “In the short term, natural gas is an obvious bridge fuel to the ‘new’ energy economy.”

That was then, but this is now. Practically en masse, the herd of independent minds that constitutes the environmentalist community has now collectively decided that natural gas is a “bridge to nowhere.” Why? In his excellent overview, The Shale Gas Shock [download], published last week by the London-based Global Warming Policy Foundation, journalist Matt Ridley explains: “As it became apparent that shale gas was a competitive threat to renewable energy as well as to coal, the green movement has turned against shale.”

Lot of good info at the link including costs both economic and environmental.

 

[Mad Scientist]

The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America. Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.

You really have to get of this Left/Right argument because both parties are criminals that care not a whit for us. (Unless you just get paid to post this partisan drivel)

Example: The Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan spews radiation out and that radiation makes it's way here so does the government do?

Obama Administration EPA to raise "safe" limits of Radiation
EPA to raise "safe" limits | The Nuclear Engineering Department At UC Berkeley

The EPA is at it again, they now want to change the "safe" limits of exposure to humans. The EPA wants to raise "Protective Action Guides" (PAG's) to levels vastly higher than those at which they are currently set allowing for more radioactive contamination of the environment and the general public.

rdean, please explain this.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

. The fracking itself occurs deep underground, where most of the fracturing and propping open of cracks is accomplished with treated water and sand. This water also returns to the surface, laden with chemicals. Early this week, staffers working for the House Energy and Commerce Committee found that 14 hydraulic fracturing companies used 866 million gallons of products, hundreds of which contained chemicals that are or might be carcinogenic or are listed as hazardous air pollutants. Laced with a variety of common (benzene, toluene) and custom (proprietary) chemicals, this water is a liability and a cost as soon as it comes out of the ground.

In Pennsylvania, where Fox filmed some of his documentary, coal mining was the first energy rush. Some coal mines caught fire, and at least one there has never stopped burning. The town above it remains abandoned. The gas industry fortunately doesn’t face runaway fires and ghost towns, so we can call it progress.

Manufacturing.net

The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America.

Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.

Liberals were all for fracking before they realized that our natural gas reserves would keep us supplied with energy for 50 years even if we used it to replace all coal and gasoline consumption. When they thought it would only last 10 years they thought it was wonderful.

What changed?

 

[Mr. H.]

"Laden with chemicals".

99.5% of a frac solution is sand and water. Diesel and or/saltwater may be used in higher concentrations, but still 85% of fluids remain in the formation.

If there's an issue here, it's one of surface containment. States already have in place adequate regulations to deal with the fracturing process from design to recovery.

It's also an issue of primacy - state regulation versus federal intervention. Democrats are quick to condemn an entire indusry and demand complete cessation of a practice based on occasional incidents. The same Democrats that selectively target a single industry (petroleum/natural gas) for unwarrented punitive taxes.

 

[RGR]

"Laden with chemicals".

99.5% of a frac solution is sand and water. Diesel and or/saltwater may be used in higher concentrations, but still 85% of fluids remain in the formation.

Not usually. I've had frac flowbacks bring back 100%+ water, and I've had fracs bring back only 15%. However, that isn't a given, most fracs I ever did were probably more in the 40-75% range, unless the formation was severely depleted, which seemed to keep more frac fluids. Usually you would energize the fluid in that situation to up the flowback recovery. The big shale fracs aren't into depleted formations, I'm betting they are substantially better than 15% flowback.

 

[Mr. H.]

Thank you for that.
But I'll say again, this is an issue of containment and should be treated as such.

State regulations have it covered. Let them go after the violators if there are any. You don't throw out the babby with the frac water.

 

[RGR]

State regulations have it covered. Let them go after the violators if there are any. You don't throw out the babby with the frac water.

State regulations do indeed have it covered. People are complaining about more than a few things which are all perfectly legal, such as standard industry wastewater disposal practices. Don't like the regs? Change'im. But it isn't the oil and gas companies fault for doing what is perfectly legal and they have been doing for half a century without the NIMBY nonsense so common nowadays in America.

In the interests of full disclosure, as a child we had two gas wells on our farm, both of them hydraulically stimulated, and we had our own well water too. Never tried to see if the coal mine under our property put enough methane into our drinking water to light it though.

 

[Mr. H.]

I met a guy from NY who's been a state hydraulogist for 15 years. In his opinion, this is a non-issue as far as sub-surface operations are concerned.

Why haven't Democrats called for a halt in gasoline sales considering the fact that underground storage tanks can and do leak? Why haven't Democrats called for an end to farming because of the phosphates that show up in municipal water supplies? Why haven't Democrats gone and fucked themselves like they oughta?

 

[Toronado3800]

Who ever was president for 28 of the 40 years before Obama should have done something about it if Democrats are pure evil.

 

[Care4all]

. The fracking itself occurs deep underground, where most of the fracturing and propping open of cracks is accomplished with treated water and sand. This water also returns to the surface, laden with chemicals. Early this week, staffers working for the House Energy and Commerce Committee found that 14 hydraulic fracturing companies used 866 million gallons of products, hundreds of which contained chemicals that are or might be carcinogenic or are listed as hazardous air pollutants. Laced with a variety of common (benzene, toluene) and custom (proprietary) chemicals, this water is a liability and a cost as soon as it comes out of the ground.

In Pennsylvania, where Fox filmed some of his documentary, coal mining was the first energy rush. Some coal mines caught fire, and at least one there has never stopped burning. The town above it remains abandoned. The gas industry fortunately doesn’t face runaway fires and ghost towns, so we can call it progress.

Manufacturing.net

The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America.

Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.

Liberals were all for fracking before they realized that our natural gas reserves would keep us supplied with energy for 50 years even if we used it to replace all coal and gasoline consumption. When they thought it would only last 10 years they thought it was wonderful.

What changed?

spin spin spin and twirl

 

[Care4all]

poisoning of our drinking water is just fabulous!

 

[RGR]

poisoning of our drinking water is just fabulous!

Hydraulic fracturing doesn't pollute drinking water unless something which is not supposed to happen (bad cement job, bad pipe, etc etc) happens. Usually this shows up immediately during the frac job and all sorts of remediation then must take place. But poisoning? No.

 

[Samson]

poisoning of our drinking water is just fabulous!

Where? When?

 

[Mr. H.]

poisoning of our drinking water is just fabulous!

Hydraulic fracturing doesn't pollute drinking water unless something which is not supposed to happen (bad cement job, bad pipe, etc etc) happens. Usually this shows up immediately during the frac job and all sorts of remediation then must take place. But poisoning? No.

And if the recovered fluid is mis-handled at the surface, it's a containment issue which involves yet more remediation. If the fluid is wrongly disposed of, then it's a disposal issue.

Like I've said - don't throw out the baby with the frac water. It's ridiculous to halt the practice based on infrequent incidents, faulty studies, and hype.

 

[whitehall]

. The fracking itself occurs deep underground, where most of the fracturing and propping open of cracks is accomplished with treated water and sand. This water also returns to the surface, laden with chemicals. Early this week, staffers working for the House Energy and Commerce Committee found that 14 hydraulic fracturing companies used 866 million gallons of products, hundreds of which contained chemicals that are or might be carcinogenic or are listed as hazardous air pollutants. Laced with a variety of common (benzene, toluene) and custom (proprietary) chemicals, this water is a liability and a cost as soon as it comes out of the ground.

In Pennsylvania, where Fox filmed some of his documentary, coal mining was the first energy rush. Some coal mines caught fire, and at least one there has never stopped burning. The town above it remains abandoned. The gas industry fortunately doesn’t face runaway fires and ghost towns, so we can call it progress.

Manufacturing.net

The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America.

Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.

The John Kerry theory: "I was for fracking before I was against it". The B. Hussein theory "if fracking is good for the economy it must be bad ". The Al Gore theory: "Fracking? Isn't that what you do to a good looking masseuse"?