Fight Over Fracking

Discussion in 'Energy' started by rdean, May 12, 2011.

  1. rdean
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    rdean rddean

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    . The fracking itself occurs deep underground, where most of the fracturing and propping open of cracks is accomplished with treated water and sand. This water also returns to the surface, laden with chemicals. Early this week, staffers working for the House Energy and Commerce Committee found that 14 hydraulic fracturing companies used 866 million gallons of products, hundreds of which contained chemicals that are or might be carcinogenic or are listed as hazardous air pollutants. Laced with a variety of common (benzene, toluene) and custom (proprietary) chemicals, this water is a liability and a cost as soon as it comes out of the ground.

    In Pennsylvania, where Fox filmed some of his documentary, coal mining was the first energy rush. Some coal mines caught fire, and at least one there has never stopped burning. The town above it remains abandoned. The gas industry fortunately doesn’t face runaway fires and ghost towns, so we can call it progress.

    Manufacturing.net

    The difference between Republicans and Democrats. Republicans rush to make a profit, no matter the consequences and when Democrats insist we must look at the long term effects and have a concern about our population, Republicans whine that Democrats always stand in the way of "profit" and don't care about America.

    Democrats want that profit too, just not at any cost.
     
  2. Toronado3800
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    Toronado3800 VIP Member

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    Thank you for the explanation.
     
  3. Ragnar
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    Ragnar <--- Pic is not me

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    Environmentalists Were For Fracking Before They Were Against It - Reason Magazine

    Lot of good info at the link including costs both economic and environmental.
     
  4. Mad Scientist
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    Mad Scientist Deplorable Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    You really have to get of this Left/Right argument because both parties are criminals that care not a whit for us. (Unless you just get paid to post this partisan drivel)

    Example: The Fukushima Nuclear power plant in Japan spews radiation out and that radiation makes it's way here so does the government do?

    Obama Administration EPA to raise "safe" limits of Radiation
    EPA to raise "safe" limits | The Nuclear Engineering Department At UC Berkeley
    rdean, please explain this.
     
  5. Quantum Windbag
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    Quantum Windbag Gold Member

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    Liberals were all for fracking before they realized that our natural gas reserves would keep us supplied with energy for 50 years even if we used it to replace all coal and gasoline consumption. When they thought it would only last 10 years they thought it was wonderful.

    What changed?
     
  6. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    "Laden with chemicals". :lol:

    99.5% of a frac solution is sand and water. Diesel and or/saltwater may be used in higher concentrations, but still 85% of fluids remain in the formation.

    If there's an issue here, it's one of surface containment. States already have in place adequate regulations to deal with the fracturing process from design to recovery.

    It's also an issue of primacy - state regulation versus federal intervention. Democrats are quick to condemn an entire indusry and demand complete cessation of a practice based on occasional incidents. The same Democrats that selectively target a single industry (petroleum/natural gas) for unwarrented punitive taxes.
     
  7. RGR
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    RGR VIP Member

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    Not usually. I've had frac flowbacks bring back 100%+ water, and I've had fracs bring back only 15%. However, that isn't a given, most fracs I ever did were probably more in the 40-75% range, unless the formation was severely depleted, which seemed to keep more frac fluids. Usually you would energize the fluid in that situation to up the flowback recovery. The big shale fracs aren't into depleted formations, I'm betting they are substantially better than 15% flowback.
     
  8. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    Thank you for that. :thup:
    But I'll say again, this is an issue of containment and should be treated as such.

    State regulations have it covered. Let them go after the violators if there are any. You don't throw out the babby with the frac water.
     
  9. RGR
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    RGR VIP Member

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    State regulations do indeed have it covered. People are complaining about more than a few things which are all perfectly legal, such as standard industry wastewater disposal practices. Don't like the regs? Change'im. But it isn't the oil and gas companies fault for doing what is perfectly legal and they have been doing for half a century without the NIMBY nonsense so common nowadays in America.

    In the interests of full disclosure, as a child we had two gas wells on our farm, both of them hydraulically stimulated, and we had our own well water too. Never tried to see if the coal mine under our property put enough methane into our drinking water to light it though.
     
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  10. Mr. H.
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    Mr. H. Diamond Member

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    I met a guy from NY who's been a state hydraulogist for 15 years. In his opinion, this is a non-issue as far as sub-surface operations are concerned.

    Why haven't Democrats called for a halt in gasoline sales considering the fact that underground storage tanks can and do leak? Why haven't Democrats called for an end to farming because of the phosphates that show up in municipal water supplies? Why haven't Democrats gone and fucked themselves like they oughta?
     

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