Fiction Is The Troublemaker

[MaryL]

Agree.

Liberals despise censorship. Censorship is OK when it's liberals ( or what passes for liberals) doing the censoring. I remember when the media had to meet certain rigorous criteria to get approval to even say "damn". Here we are, no holds barred. We can say anything but...and can't question those that allege racism?

Based on libertarian values, there should be NO censorship unless legitimate victims are involved.

I still remember when Hollywood and the News media had standards and had seals of approval and touted being modest as a virtue. Now we have the "internet". It's a combination sewer and entertainment source. And YOU are the censor.

 

[Unkotare]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

Not enough, if it really IS taught.
.....

Upon what do you base that claim (and doubt)?

Upon my own student experiences, what my kids told me, and my participation at school board meetings in my district.
.....

So you have no firm basis for your claim.

 

[Flopper]

It turns out that Atticus Finch is no better than William Willoughby and the other white trash of Maycomb County, Alabama. Atticus is not the heroic civil rights champion author Harper Lee led us to believe in her book To Kill a Mockingbird. Generations of young Americans have been duped. It is now revealed in Lee’s second (really first) book, “Go Set a Watchman,“ that Atticus is a bigot.​

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’
Jim Huffman
3:33 PM 07/30/2015

The Case For Banning ‘To Kill A Mockingbird’​

The ban has been lifted:

The racial slur appears 219 times in Mark Twain’s “The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” and 48 times in Harper Lee’s “To Kill a Mockingbird.”​

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote
By Jessica Chasmar
Wednesday, December 7, 2016

‘Huckleberry Finn,’ ‘To Kill a Mockingbird’ return to Virginia classrooms after vote​

Which edition of Huck Finn goes back in the classroom?

A first edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.” Credit David Duprey/Associated Press ​

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/01/05/us/SUB-HUCK/SUB-HUCK-popup.jpg

I assume the New York Times did not get the p.c. memo until after they published the dreaded N-word:

A new edition of “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn” is missing something.

Throughout the book — 219 times in all — the word “******” [censored by USMB] is replaced by “slave,” a substitution that was made by NewSouth Books, a publisher based in Alabama, which plans to release the edition in February.​

Publisher Tinkers With Twain
By JULIE BOSMANJAN. 4, 2011

Publisher Tinkers With Twain​

Solve the problem by not teaching fiction at all. After all, children get enough fiction from movies and television without getting it in classrooms.

See this thread for a few more observations about fiction, books, and libraries:

The truth: There is nothing wrong with banning specific books from public libraries in a free society. PUBLIC is the operative word. Those of us who oppose liberal garbage should not be forced to support such books in public libraries. Works of fiction should be removed from every library that gets tax dollars from any source in any amount. Failure to remove fiction from a library should result in the loss of all public funding including the tax deduction for donations. The publishing industry should pay to house its literary artifacts in their museums.

Banning the sale of books is another matter. I would not ban the sale of any book no matter how offensive it might be to me. Buy all of the books you want, just don’t force me to share the cost of placing and maintaining your choices on library shelves.

Incidentally, if ever there was a canker on this country’s libraries it is this: Many pubic libraries now provide free movie-CDs. I, and many others, sure as hell don’t want public libraries used to promote Hollywood’s garbage.​

Oscar Is In For A Taste

It's fiction. Atticus Finch is just a character. The novel is loosely based on Harper Lee's childhood. Whether Lee's father is racist are not is completely irrelevant.

Whether fiction is good or bad depends of the fiction.

One of the greatest things about America is our imagination, to believe we can do what is not in any text book. It all starts with fiction usually as a child. Wernher von Braun, one of the most important rocket developers and champions of space exploration was intrigued by H.G. Wells, and Julies Vern as a child. It lead to his fascination with Astronomy and Physics. Ask a NASA space scientists what inspired them as children, you often hear Star Trek, Arthur C. Clark, Dune, A Space Odyssey. It was not the historical account of the Peloponnese War that inspired Dwight Eisenhower but the novels of Rudyard Kipling.

Really smart people absorbed a lot of worldly experience from literature, well beyond what anyone could acquire in a single human life. Fiction can take us anywhere, to any time, and help us sense how it might feel to be a different sex, race or nationality. Fiction is not just stories. It's a view of life from many perspectives.

 

[Flopper]

I am against any kind of censorship or the banning of books anywhere, in libraries and most especially in schools.

To Billy_Kinetta: Basically, I agree with your views —— up to the point of using tax dollars to promote fiction in any venue. In fact, I would like to see every book ever written transferred to a computer program. Then everyone who wants to read a book can pay a few pennies to read it on the Net if they cannot afford to buy a hard copy. If nothing else, putting brick & mortar libraries out of business will do more to advance civilization than you can imagination.

Although, I read a lot e-books, after spending much of the day starring at a computer screen, I find it refreshing to read a real book. There are also several other reasons I find real books superior to e-books.

• I can leave a book on a park bench and it will be there when I get back. I have never had a book stolen. I certainly can't say that about my ipad.
• With a real book, I never have to be concerned about the format of the book and my reader. Given the history of obsolesce of digital formats, I doubt I will be able to read any of the eBooks I buy today in 20 years.
• I don't have to download books, apps or updates. My book never runs low on batteries, never have software bugs, and never freezes up.
• However, best of all, I can leave my favor books to my grandson with the hope that he enjoys them as much as I did.

 

[Flanders]

Based on libertarian values, there should be NO censorship unless legitimate victims are involved.

To PK1: Who defines “legitimate victims”? Should criticism of Hillary Clinton be censored because she plays a victim when it suits her?

And when does your acceptable censorship become harassment?

The silence-Adams movement now has expanded to include claims of “harassment.”​

School that lost free speech fight now defending prof who won
Posted By Bob Unruh On 12/10/2016 @ 7:09 pm

School that lost free speech fight now defending prof who won​

Incidentally:

The problem is that censorship is a polite way of violating the First Amendment’s freedom of speech protection.

Hillary Clinton Proves Fake News Is Newspeak​

Irrespective of what you call it —— it is an attack on freedom of speech that must always end with this:

It is no secret that all governments just love protecting meaningless speech, while all governments claim the absolute Right to define “clear and present danger.” In every form of government do not falsely shout FIRE in a crowded theater becomes do not shout FIRE in an empty theater. Then it becomes do not shout FIRE! And finally do not speak at all.

Freedom Of Speech Is Not A Board Game​

Simply put. The most offensive speech requires the most protection.

One of the greatest things about America is our imagination, to believe we can do what is not in any text book.

To Flopper: I suspect that you got that line right out of liberalism’s play book.

However, best of all, I can leave my favor books to my grandson with the hope that he enjoys them as much as I did.

To Flopper: In case you missed it in the OP:

Buy all of the books you want, just don’t force me to share the cost of placing and maintaining your choices on library shelves.

In fact, do not use tax dollars to fund the culture of fiction in any form.

 

[PK1]

Critical thinking IS taught, and both fiction and non-fiction are studied.

Not enough, if it really IS taught.
.....

Upon what do you base that claim (and doubt)?

Upon my own student experiences, what my kids told me, and my participation at school board meetings in my district.
.....

So you have no firm basis for your claim.

So far, i have more basis than your claim ... based on what?

 

[PK1]

Based on libertarian values, there should be NO censorship unless legitimate victims are involved.

To PK1: Who defines “legitimate victims”?

That is a bit complicated in civil society.
Sometimes it's obvious, like no shouting "fire" or "bomb" on a commercial aircraft or crowded setting.
Should we revise current laws against free speech?

There is always a delicate balance between one person's right to freedom of speech and another's right to protect their good name. It is often difficult to know which personal remarks are proper and which run afoul of defamation law.

The term "defamation" is an all-encompassing term that covers any statement that hurts someone's reputation. If the statement is made in writing and published, the defamation is called "libel." If the hurtful statement is spoken, the statement is "slander." The government can't imprison someone for making a defamatory statement since it is not a crime. Instead, defamation is considered to be a civil wrong, or a tort. A person that has suffered a defamatory statement may sue the person that made the statement under defamation law.

 

[Flanders]

Sometimes it's obvious, like no shouting "fire" or "bomb" on a commercial aircraft or crowded setting.

To PK1: Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. said “don’t falsely shout fire in a crowded theater” yet liberals repeatedly omit the word falsely whenever they cite Schenck v. Ohio (the United States) in order to justify limits on free speech.

Incidentally, Schenck v. Ohio was overturned by Brandenburg v. United States.

There is always a delicate balance between one person's right to freedom of speech and another's right to protect their good name. It is often difficult to know which personal remarks are proper and which run afoul of defamation law.

To PK1: ABSOLUTE political freedom of speech is essential in criticizing public figures. See this about Hillary Clinton’s “good name”:

Hillary Clinton Proves Fake News Is Newspeak

Everybody else is protected by law suits.