Fetus Found in Gift Box

[Cecilie1200]

No- it is not murder or homicide.. unless you purposefully were trying to kill the fetus only, knowing that she was pregnant- and that was not something she consented to.
I really don't believe it should be considered murder, or even homicide, whatsoever. I am discussing it from a legal standpoint, is all.. Wrongful act, maybe.. It should definitely be left to the civil courts, in my opinion.

I am very pro choice. I do not believe that abortion is killing anything. Ever. All it really does is cause the organism to detach from the uterus, and be expelled, thereby creating an atmosphere in which it ceases from growing. If it cannot live outside of the uterus, independently, then it is not "alive", any more than an egg or sperm cell, or even a Tumor is "alive". Yes I said tumor. And no I am not calling a fetus a tumor, lol.. I am making a valid analogy, though.

No, you aren't. Not a single thing you "believe" is based on any sort of actual medical science.

However, if they are charged with homicide, it won't be for inducing a miscarriage, whether the baby was born alive or stillborn. It will be a depraved indifference homicide, IF the child took a breath outside the mother's womb, because they didn't get him medical treatment and allowed him to die. And either way, they're going to get charged with abuse of a corpse, tampering with evidence, etc.

And equality before the law has always been lost on this country.. But in this case, equality can mean many things- a woman's right to choose to not carry a pregnancy, based on men not having to ever choose TO carry one. A woman's right to control every aspect of her body, and how it functions, including during a time of being the "carrier" (host) of a zygote, embryo or fetus.. and her absolute right to decide how long that should be allowed to happen.
Also, she has the absolute right to go belly flopping off of a cliff, if she so chooses, when she is in her third trimester. I never claim to agree with those kinds of choices, but that is irrelevant- because her body and mine are absolutely separate entities. She may be fully opposed to smoking cigarettes, while I smoke daily.

When I was pregnant, I had some housekeepers tell me I shouldn't ride a friggin bike, because a fall could hurt the baby. They never seemed to have heard of an amniotic sac, much less the concept of exercise during pregnancy- fully explaining their own saddle bags, and stocky, chubby little bodies..

Oh and I had a boss in the Navy who told me when I was like 2 months along that I couldn't swing off of a rope swing, which was only a few feet up from the water. I decided against doing that, just because I hadn't spoken with my Dr about it yet, but it turns out that doing little things like that are not harmful.

Nobody tells me what I can or cannot do during a pregnancy. It is still ME, MY life.. and I will enjoy it, tyvm.

 

[Anguille]

Nobody tells me what I can or cannot do during a pregnancy. It is still ME, MY life.. and I will enjoy it, tyvm.

 

[Care4all]

This is a very odd story indeed... However, it sounds like they just decided to have an abortion a month too late for legal standing.
If the autopsy comes back that the fetus had taken a breath of air, it will (and should) count as a homicide, because the fetus would have no longer been a fetus, but as of taking that first vital breath on its own, it automatically becomes a premature infant baby.
I don't think that "murder" would be a fair charge, but who knows in Texas. They could get a homicide or maybe possibly a manslaughter conviction if and only if the fetus breathed on its own, even one time, and that is without any additional foul play, after it was delivered.. And that is only if the pills she took were not designed to cause an abortion. Otherwise, all they could probably do is charge the couple with an illegal 3rd trimester abortion, and improper disposal of human remains, or some such humanitarian charge.
I really doubt that this woman (or her husband) was on any kind of birth control, barring the possible use of condoms, which are ineffective anyways, due to their consistently improper usage by the majority of condom users. (did y'all know that you cant have any of that latex still in that rolled, packaged look- that it has to be unrolled all the way!! Most people do not know this, and this is one of the biggest ways that condoms are misused. The other things people don't seem to do are to store them properly, including the way they are shipped in hot box trucks, and pinching the reservoir tip before putting the damned thing on. Damn I know a lot about safe sex, hahahahaha- Maybe that is why I have never gotten a disease, lol)

Anyhoo- back on track here- This is one of the primary reasons that I am pro health care reform. People NEED to have easier and more affordable access to birth control.
I know that many people are against abortions, but it would be really great if those people would at least agree to giving sliding scale, income based fees for birth control as a part of the plan for reform. Then they don't really have to worry about the abortion issue as much. =)

do insurance companies cover birth control prescriptions now? When i was younger, they did not, and i do not believe the insurance i have now does either?

 

[Shogun]

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I might be wrong but if she took a pill, it would have just made her go into labor at seven months not killing the baby. They would had killed the baby once it was delivered unless it was still born, I think they should be charged with a homicide or maybe they are waiting for the autopsy???

That is exactly why they are waiting for the autopsy results. The autopsy will show whether or not the child ever drew breath into his lungs. If so, then they will be charged with murder. Otherwise, the child will be deemed stillborn.

I thought the this established that it's still murder?

 

[Article 15]

I might be wrong but if she took a pill, it would have just made her go into labor at seven months not killing the baby. They would had killed the baby once it was delivered unless it was still born, I think they should be charged with a homicide or maybe they are waiting for the autopsy???

I'm with her. If they killed the baby it's murder but best to wait for the autopsy.

 

[frazzledgear]

Fetus Found in Gift Box

They should've mailed the gift box to Planned Parenthood. I hear they eat aborted 'fetuses' for dinner.

Maybe they got the idea from the Chinese where apparently some doctors view the millions of fetuses aborted there every year - as a food group. But if you are able to dehumanize them in the first place so you can slaughter them in the first place - then what's the big deal about frying them up afterwards?

Reports of Contemporary Cannibalism in China (There are plenty of sites regarding these reports, but if looking for other sources for it then beware -some have graphic photos.

 

[B L Zeebub]

it beats a pair of socks

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a very odd story indeed... However, it sounds like they just decided to have an abortion a month too late for legal standing.
If the autopsy comes back that the fetus had taken a breath of air, it will (and should) count as a homicide, because the fetus would have no longer been a fetus, but as of taking that first vital breath on its own, it automatically becomes a premature infant baby.
I don't think that "murder" would be a fair charge, but who knows in Texas. They could get a homicide or maybe possibly a manslaughter conviction if and only if the fetus breathed on its own, even one time, and that is without any additional foul play, after it was delivered.. And that is only if the pills she took were not designed to cause an abortion. Otherwise, all they could probably do is charge the couple with an illegal 3rd trimester abortion, and improper disposal of human remains, or some such humanitarian charge.
I really doubt that this woman (or her husband) was on any kind of birth control, barring the possible use of condoms, which are ineffective anyways, due to their consistently improper usage by the majority of condom users. (did y'all know that you cant have any of that latex still in that rolled, packaged look- that it has to be unrolled all the way!! Most people do not know this, and this is one of the biggest ways that condoms are misused. The other things people don't seem to do are to store them properly, including the way they are shipped in hot box trucks, and pinching the reservoir tip before putting the damned thing on. Damn I know a lot about safe sex, hahahahaha- Maybe that is why I have never gotten a disease, lol)

Anyhoo- back on track here- This is one of the primary reasons that I am pro health care reform. People NEED to have easier and more affordable access to birth control.
I know that many people are against abortions, but it would be really great if those people would at least agree to giving sliding scale, income based fees for birth control as a part of the plan for reform. Then they don't really have to worry about the abortion issue as much. =)

do insurance companies cover birth control prescriptions now? When i was younger, they did not, and i do not believe the insurance i have now does either?

I can't even remember that last time I heard about a major health insurance company that did not cover virtually every form of female birth control, with the exception of Norplant, which is not popular with insurance OR doctors, apparently. Certainly Medicaid covers birth control.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I might be wrong but if she took a pill, it would have just made her go into labor at seven months not killing the baby. They would had killed the baby once it was delivered unless it was still born, I think they should be charged with a homicide or maybe they are waiting for the autopsy???

That is exactly why they are waiting for the autopsy results. The autopsy will show whether or not the child ever drew breath into his lungs. If so, then they will be charged with murder. Otherwise, the child will be deemed stillborn.

I thought the this established that it's still murder?

Nope, because SHE took the pill. He didn't force it down her throat, and it's not illegal for a woman to induce her own miscarriage, as far as I know. It's only homicide if the baby was born alive and allowed to die, or if someone other than the mother caused the miscarriage.

 

[Zander]

The couple should get a Nobel peace prize. They are helping the planet.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

That is exactly why they are waiting for the autopsy results. The autopsy will show whether or not the child ever drew breath into his lungs. If so, then they will be charged with murder. Otherwise, the child will be deemed stillborn.

I thought the this established that it's still murder?

Nope, because SHE took the pill. He didn't force it down her throat, and it's not illegal for a woman to induce her own miscarriage, as far as I know. It's only homicide if the baby was born alive and allowed to die, or if someone other than the mother caused the miscarriage.

So if a man kills an unborn child, it's murder. If a female does the exact same thing, the law discriminates based upon sex?

Does anyone else see a problem here?

 

[chanel]

Yes, yes I do.

 

[JD_2B]

JD, homicide does not require intent. If you wish to talk law, learn what you're talking about.

I do not believe that abortion is killing anything. Ever

You're a fucking moron who clearly fails to understand that causing a living thing to die is killing it- by definition.'

If it cannot live outside of the uterus, independently, then it is not "alive"

you need a dictionary

I don't believe that removing a growth is considered killing a living thing, but, like a fetus, removing a tumor causes that tumor to cease from growing.

A fetus is never alive. It may be growing, and developing- sure.. but growth and metabolism are not firm indicators of such a thing being alive.

Hence, the reason why the law (caselaw) commands that only those born who actually took a breath of air, were "killed", which is the only time prosecutors can expect an actual homicide conviction.

PS- Yes, insurance generally covers a wide array of birth control methods, now. You should check with your agent to see if you are covered on your policy.

 

[JD_2B]

I thought the this established that it's still murder?

Nope, because SHE took the pill. He didn't force it down her throat, and it's not illegal for a woman to induce her own miscarriage, as far as I know. It's only homicide if the baby was born alive and allowed to die, or if someone other than the mother caused the miscarriage.

So if a man kills an unborn child, it's murder. If a female does the exact same thing, the law discriminates based upon sex?

Does anyone else see a problem here?

Exactly- its retarded to apply some kind of criminal status to somebody losing their pregnancy, whether there was intent or not, and whose intent it was, etc.. It should remain in the civil courts, IMHO.

 

[JD_2B]

No- it is not murder or homicide.. unless you purposefully were trying to kill the fetus only, knowing that she was pregnant- and that was not something she consented to.
I really don't believe it should be considered murder, or even homicide, whatsoever. I am discussing it from a legal standpoint, is all.. Wrongful act, maybe.. It should definitely be left to the civil courts, in my opinion.

I am very pro choice. I do not believe that abortion is killing anything. Ever. All it really does is cause the organism to detach from the uterus, and be expelled, thereby creating an atmosphere in which it ceases from growing. If it cannot live outside of the uterus, independently, then it is not "alive", any more than an egg or sperm cell, or even a Tumor is "alive". Yes I said tumor. And no I am not calling a fetus a tumor, lol.. I am making a valid analogy, though.

No, you aren't. Not a single thing you "believe" is based on any sort of actual medical science.

However, if they are charged with homicide, it won't be for inducing a miscarriage, whether the baby was born alive or stillborn. It will be a depraved indifference homicide, IF the child took a breath outside the mother's womb, because they didn't get him medical treatment and allowed him to die. And either way, they're going to get charged with abuse of a corpse, tampering with evidence, etc.

What, then, did I just say?? Exactly that, in fewer words. And YOU don't have to believe the same things I do about pregnancy, and what it is or isnt. When you are pregnant, you are more than welcome to birth it, and never consider abortion, and never even consider having any discontent about it, or beat yourself up for having discontent over it, the way many women suffering from post partum depression do. That is YOUR right, and I fully support it. You can even think that your fetus is God himself.. Go for it.. =)

And YES- everything I said is based on factual science. Many things exist, grow, and metabolize, and are not considered "alive"- like a mole, a tumor, an infection, etc... To destroy does not equate to "killing"- and even if it DID- it still wouldn't make any difference, because it is up to me to decide what "lives" in my body for 9 months, causing risks to my health and livelihood!!!

 

[☭proletarian☭]

JD, homicide does not require intent. If you wish to talk law, learn what you're talking about.

I do not believe that abortion is killing anything. Ever

You're a fucking moron who clearly fails to understand that causing a living thing to die is killing it- by definition.'

If it cannot live outside of the uterus, independently, then it is not "alive"

you need a dictionary

I don't believe that removing a growth is considered killing a living thing, but, like a fetus, removing a tumor causes that tumor to cease from growing.

A fetus is never alive. It may be growing, and developing- sure.. but growth and metabolism are not firm indicators of such a thing being alive.

Hence, the reason why the law (caselaw) commands that only those born who actually took a breath of air, were "killed", which is the only time prosecutors can expect an actual homicide conviction.

PS- Yes, insurance generally covers a wide array of birth control methods, now. You should check with your agent to see if you are covered on your policy.

1) You're still killing the (cells that compose the) tunor

2)A fetus is a distinct organism; a tumor is not.

2)You're a fucking idiot. It is a scientifically verified fact that the fetus is alve by definition of the word 'alive'

Hence, the reason why the law (caselaw) commands that only those born who actually took a breath of air, were "killed", which is the only time prosecutors can expect an actual homicide conviction.

Wrong, dumbass. Remember the Peterson trial?

Why is it you can't state what it is you wish to do? Why must you lie and spin things to convince yourself you're not killing a living thing? If what you're doing isn't wrong, why can't you say 'I support killing the fetus at this stage, because _____'?

I can only imagine it's because you know in your heart that what you're doing is wrong and you can't really face what it is you're supporting or might have done.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

Nope, because SHE took the pill. He didn't force it down her throat, and it's not illegal for a woman to induce her own miscarriage, as far as I know. It's only homicide if the baby was born alive and allowed to die, or if someone other than the mother caused the miscarriage.

So if a man kills an unborn child, it's murder. If a female does the exact same thing, the law discriminates based upon sex?

Does anyone else see a problem here?

Exactly- its retarded to apply some kind of criminal status to somebody losing their pregnancy, whether there was intent or not, and whose intent it was, etc.. It should remain in the civil courts, IMHO.

What difference is there between a child after birth and the day before birth?

 

[☭proletarian☭]

And YES- everything I said is based on factual science.

Wrong, dumbass.

Many things exist, grow, and metabolize, and are not considered "alive"- like a mole,

The animal?

a tumor,

is living tissue. The difference is that a fetus is a distinct organism unto itself, wheras a tumour is not.

an infection

Bacteria are living things, and virsues can be considered alive (although they're generally considered replicators more than organisms)

etc... To destroy does not equate to "killing"- and even if it DID- it still wouldn't make any difference, because it is up to me to decide what "lives" in my body for 9 months, causing risks to my health and livelihood!!!

Women have been carrying children for a very long time; usually there are no serious complications. Stop acting like killing your baby so you can go to the club and sleep around some more is anything like terminating an ectopic pregnancy in a life-and-death situation.

Why do you lie so much?

 

[Misty]

the artcle should have read; Dead baby found in gift box

this is what happens when society sinks to a level where killing babies is not only acceptable, but legal.