Fellow libertarians....

[Liberty]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

 

[Katzndogz]

No libertarians. I have listened to them and find them pretty much lunatics.

 

[Liberty]

No libertarians. I have listened to them and find them pretty much lunatics.

The hypocrisy is mind numbing.

 

[Shelzin]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

I don't define myself as Libertarian... I am going to STILL vote for Ron or Gary based on the new information.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

If Ron is not on the ballot I'll be voting for Gary. No write in...

 

[JWBooth]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

Nope, nothing about this guy changes anything for me. Here is why -

Paul Ryan on Bailouts and Government Stimuli
-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)


Paul Ryan on Entitlement Programs
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients. (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)

Paul Ryan on Education
Rep. Ryan went along with the Bush Administration in supporting more federal involvement in education. This is contrary to the traditional Republican position, which included support for abolition of the Department of Education and decreasing federal involvement in education.
-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)

Paul Ryan on Civil Liberties
-Voted YES on federalizing rules for driver licenses to hinder terrorists. (Feb 2005)
-Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
-Voted YES on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant. (Sep 2006)

Paul Ryan on War and Intervention Abroad
-Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
-Voted YES on emergency $78B for war in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Apr 2003)
-Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
-Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)


Congressman Ryan supports the United Nations, the World Trade Organization, federal bailouts, increased federal involvement in education, unconstitutional and undeclared wars, Medicare Part D (a multi trillion dollar unfunded liability), stimulus spending, and foreign aid.


According to Michelle Malkin in 2009, “[Paul Ryan] gave one of the most hysterical speeches in the rush to pass TARP last fall; voted for the auto bailout; and voted with the Barney Frank-Nancy Pelosi AIG bonus-bashing stampede. Milwaukee blogger Nick Schweitzer wrote: ‘He ought to be apologizing for his previous votes, not pretending he was being responsible the entire time, but I don’t see one bit of regret for what he did previously. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to let him get away with it’.”




Source: Republican Liberty Caucus of Wisconsin

 

[Katzndogz]

That's not hypocrisy. I never said I believed in anything either Paul or Johnson represent. I've been listening to them for a long time. They are both lunatics.

 

[Shelzin]

That's not hypocrisy. I never said I believed in anything either Paul or Johnson represent. I've been listening to them for a long time. They are both lunatics.

I see people say that... But they really never say why. I mean TM addressed it once, and then gave the most obscure reason... And then was wrong about that... *shrugs*

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all?

Nope

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

No libertarians. I have listened to them and find them pretty much lunatics.

And we support you having the freedom to be ignorant.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

That's not hypocrisy. I never said I believed in anything either Paul or Johnson represent. I've been listening to them for a long time. They are both lunatics.

I see people say that... But they really never say why.

It's because they don't know why. They believe in a stereotype they hear over and over.

 

[PredFan]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

It won't change my mind. I have already decided to vote for Romney. I'm a Libertarian and I'd love to see a LP candidate in there someday but Obama needs to go, and he needs to go now. 4 more years of Obama and there won't be a free country left for a LP POTUS to fix.

 

[PredFan]

No libertarians. I have listened to them and find them pretty much lunatics.

He was not talking to you, go away.

 

[CausingPAIN]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

McPlastic is still Plastic, with a Paul Crazy sticker!

 

[Zxereus]

Libertarians need to get their shit together, and help us rid America of Barack Obama.

Paul is going nowhere, Johnson is going nowhere. Romney is the only chance !! Period !!

 

[Zxereus]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

It won't change my mind. I have already decided to vote for Romney. I'm a Libertarian and I'd love to see a LP candidate in there someday but Obama needs to go, and he needs to go now. 4 more years of Obama and there won't be a free country left for a LP POTUS to fix.

Good man !

 

[CausingPAIN]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

Nope, nothing about this guy changes anything for me. Here is why -

Paul Ryan on Bailouts and Government Stimuli
-Voted YES on TARP (2008)
-Voted YES on Economic Stimulus HR 5140 (2008)
-Voted YES on $15B bailout for GM and Chrysler. (Dec 2008)
-Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)


Paul Ryan on Entitlement Programs
-Voted YES on limited prescription drug benefit for Medicare recipients. (Nov 2003)
-Voted YES on providing $70 million for Section 8 Housing vouchers. (Jun 2006)
-Voted YES on extending unemployment benefits from 39 weeks to 59 weeks. (Oct 2008)
-Voted YES on Head Start Act (2007)

Paul Ryan on Education
Rep. Ryan went along with the Bush Administration in supporting more federal involvement in education. This is contrary to the traditional Republican position, which included support for abolition of the Department of Education and decreasing federal involvement in education.
-Voted YES on No Child Left Behind Act (2001)

Paul Ryan on Civil Liberties
-Voted YES on federalizing rules for driver licenses to hinder terrorists. (Feb 2005)
-Voted YES on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
-Voted YES on allowing electronic surveillance without a warrant. (Sep 2006)

Paul Ryan on War and Intervention Abroad
-Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
-Voted YES on emergency $78B for war in Iraq & Afghanistan. (Apr 2003)
-Voted YES on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
-Voted NO on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)


Congressman Ryan supports the United Nations, the World Trade Organization, federal bailouts, increased federal involvement in education, unconstitutional and undeclared wars, Medicare Part D (a multi trillion dollar unfunded liability), stimulus spending, and foreign aid.


According to Michelle Malkin in 2009, “[Paul Ryan] gave one of the most hysterical speeches in the rush to pass TARP last fall; voted for the auto bailout; and voted with the Barney Frank-Nancy Pelosi AIG bonus-bashing stampede. Milwaukee blogger Nick Schweitzer wrote: ‘He ought to be apologizing for his previous votes, not pretending he was being responsible the entire time, but I don’t see one bit of regret for what he did previously. And I’ll be damned if I’m going to let him get away with it’.”




Source: Republican Liberty Caucus of Wisconsin

My list on crazy Ryan is longer. makes Sarah look sane!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

That's not hypocrisy. I never said I believed in anything either Paul or Johnson represent. I've been listening to them for a long time. They are both lunatics.

I see people say that... But they really never say why. I mean TM addressed it once, and then gave the most obscure reason... And then was wrong about that... *shrugs*

As with most reactionaries, libertarians for the most part suffer from a naïve and unrealistic perception of an American past that never existed in the first place. Their economic policies – or lack thereof – ignore the reality of America as a modern, First World industrial Super Power. The 18th Century economic/social/legal paradigm advocated by libertarians could never function in the 21st Century.

We also see a strange, inconsistent, and errant understanding of the Constitution and its case law by most libertarians.

For example, Ron Paul wants to allow the states to outlaw abortion. In addition to being in conflict with fundamental 14th Amendment jurisprudence and Incorporation Doctrine as settled and accepted law, this also creates a strange conflict with regard to the protection of individual liberty. We hear libertarians bemoan the ‘tyranny’ of the Federal government with regard to our civil liberties yet nothing about the tyranny of state governments and local jurisdictions.

A loss of one’s civil rights is a loss of one’s civil rights, regardless the offending source.

And it’s usually at this point any meaningful debate with most libertarians with regard to the Constitution and its case law comes to a grinding halt, as almost every libertarian will reject that case law up to and including Marbury v. Madison, along with the principles of judicial review and the Supreme Court’s interpretive authority as to determining what the Constitution means.

 

[Shelzin]

That's not hypocrisy. I never said I believed in anything either Paul or Johnson represent. I've been listening to them for a long time. They are both lunatics.

I see people say that... But they really never say why. I mean TM addressed it once, and then gave the most obscure reason... And then was wrong about that... *shrugs*

As with most reactionaries, libertarians for the most part suffer from a naïve and unrealistic perception of an American past that never existed in the first place. Their economic policies – or lack thereof – ignore the reality of America as a modern, First World industrial Super Power. The 18th Century economic/social/legal paradigm advocated by libertarians could never function in the 21st Century.

Why? I see you saying it... But no logical reasoning.

We also see a strange, inconsistent, and errant understanding of the Constitution and its case law by most libertarians.

*laughs* Ok.

For example, Ron Paul wants to allow the states to outlaw abortion. In addition to being in conflict with fundamental 14th Amendment jurisprudence and Incorporation Doctrine as settled and accepted law, this also creates a strange conflict with regard to the protection of individual liberty. We hear libertarians bemoan the ‘tyranny’ of the Federal government with regard to our civil liberties yet nothing about the tyranny of state governments and local jurisdictions.

Do you believe your state would do that?

A loss of one’s civil rights is a loss of one’s civil rights, regardless the offending source.

I agree.

And it’s usually at this point any meaningful debate with most libertarians with regard to the Constitution and its case law comes to a grinding halt, as almost every libertarian will reject that case law up to and including Marbury v. Madison, along with the principles of judicial review and the Supreme Court’s interpretive authority as to determining what the Constitution means.

*blink*blink*

That means absolutely nothing to what you said previously in the post. And... What you said previously in the post... Its saying you have an opinion on something, but not why you have it. Why won't the economy function under Ron or Gary?

 

[dblack]

...does the Paul Ryan VP choice change your mind on Romney at all? I am still voting for Johnson I think due to the lack of catering to my beliefs. Unless Romney announces if elected he will appoint ron paul as treasury secretary the chances of me voting for him are zero.

Furthermore, will you be writing in ron paul or voting for gary johnson? Since Johnson is not quite as libertarian as ron paul (and his ideas on border security are a bit too lax imo) but he is actually on the list of runners, I will probably just vote for him instead of writing in ron paul. What are your thoughts?

I don't see much Romney could do to change my judgement of him, which is based mostly on his record and that's not something he can really undo. I'll vote for Johnson.

 

[dblack]

It won't change my mind. I have already decided to vote for Romney. I'm a Libertarian and I'd love to see a LP candidate in there someday but Obama needs to go, and he needs to go now. 4 more years of Obama and there won't be a free country left for a LP POTUS to fix.

In other words, "other-of-two-evils" wins again. Don't you find that at least a little depressing?