Feingold calls on Bush to stop using phrase 'Islamic facists'

[007]

You are being slightly misleading.

For centuries, Christanity was violent and killed those whom they saw as non-believers.

The facts are this:
The Qur'an has violent passages
The Christian bible and the Jewish torah has violent passages

The Qur'an also preaches compassion
The bible and torah also preach compassion.

Bin Laden and the Islamic fascists twist the real meaning to the Qur'an to fit their terrorist agenda and brainwash people.

Let's blame and seek out terrorists, not blaming Islam itself.

I've read the Bible cover to cover, and can't recall any passages where the Bible 'commanded' me to go out and KILL someone, for ANY reason.

So, since you're comparing the Bible to the kuran, could you show me the passages you're refering to in Bible that command Christians to KILL?

 

[Annie]

A twisted reading of Islam is, without a doubt, the philosophical reason for terrorism.

However, many portions of the Qur'an preach peace and compassion. The terrorists twist the Qur'an and leave these portions out to fulfil their own sick agenda. They use Islam for terror, but it's not a true reading of the Qur'an.

Show me where the twisting comes in. Do not show me the 'portions of peace and compassion', I can find those fine. Just where the 'extremists' are going haywire. Thanks.

 

[Gunny]

You are being slightly misleading.

For centuries, Christanity was violent and killed those whom they saw as non-believers.

The facts are this:
The Qur'an has violent passages
The Christian bible and the Jewish torah has violent passages

The Qur'an also preaches compassion
The bible and torah also preach compassion.

Bin Laden and the Islamic fascists twist the real meaning to the Qur'an to fit their terrorist agenda and brainwash people.

Let's blame and seek out terrorists, not blaming Islam itself.

You would be incorrect, and/or misleading. The portion of the Holy Bible (New Testament) concerning Christianity does NOT preach violence as a means to an end at all. It preaches just the opposite, as a matter of fact.

The Koran preaches violence as a means to an end.

Regardless what politically correct phrases you wish to use, this IS a religious war on the part of radical Islam, and a war of cultural survival for the West.

 

[JeffWartman]

Show me where the twisting comes in. Do not show me the 'portions of peace and compassion', I can find those fine. Just where the 'extremists' are going haywire. Thanks.

The twisting comes in when the extremists use the violent passages out of context without the compassionate passages which follow. This stuff isn't hard to understand.

 

[Annie]

The twisting comes in when the extremists use the violent passages out of context without the compassionate passages which follow. This stuff isn't hard to understand.

I'm waiting for the more authorative poster, and chapter and verse. But thanks for trying to jump in.

 

[JeffWartman]

I've read the Bible cover to cover, and can't recall any passages where the Bible 'commanded' me to go out and KILL someone, for ANY reason.

So, since you're comparing the Bible to the kuran, could you show me the passages you're refering to in Bible that command Christians to KILL?

First off, I never said the Bible COMMANDS you to kill.

I posted this in another thread in which we discussed this subject but you didn't answer, maybe the post got buried.

The aggression in the Koran is also followed by much compassion, but you are selectively quoting the Koran out of context, just like Osama Bin Laden.
The Koran has violent passages (just like the bible) but those passages are often taken out of context (just like the bible)

For example:

Quote:
(Taken from http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa090402a.htm)

Nevertheless, the Qur'an repeatedly urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors." Some examples:

If anyone slays a person
- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -
it would be as if he slew all people.
And if anyone saves a life,
it would be as if he saved the life of all people.
Qur'an 5:32


Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching.
And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious . . .
And if you punish,
let your punishment be proportional to the wrong that has been done to you.
But if you show patience, that is indeed the best course.
Be patient, for your patience is from God.
And do not grieve over them, or distress yourself because of their plots.
For God is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Qur'an 16:125-128

Oh you who believe!
Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God,
even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin,
and whether it be against rich or poor,
for God can best protect both.
Follow not the cravings of your hearts, lest you swerve,
and if you distort justice or decline to do justice,
verily God is well acquainted with all that you do.
Qur'an 4:135

The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree),
but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from God,
for God loves not those who do wrong.
But indeed, if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong done to them,
against such there is no cause of blame.
The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing
and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land,
defying right and justice,
for such there will be a penalty grievous (in the Hereafter).
But indeed, if any show patience and forgive,
that would truly be an affair of great resolution.
Qur'an 42:40-43

Goodness and evil are not equal.
Repel evil with what is better.
Then that person with whom there was hatred,
may become your intimate friend!
And no one will be granted such goodness
except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,
none but people of the greatest good fortune.
Qur'an 41:34-35

But what about those passages of the Qur'an that seem to promote wanton violence? One of the verses most often quoted (2:191) seems to command Muslims to "slay them wherever you find them." But who are "they?" Is it any non-Muslim or "infidel?" One merely needs to read the preceding verse to find the answer: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not the transgressors" (2:190). In subsequent verses, Muslims are called upon to stop fighting when the opposing party ceases its aggression.



All this shows that while there is violent passages in the Koran, there are also passages about compassion.

Now, if we look at the Christian Bible, we find the following pasages:
1) In Leviticus 25:44-46, the Lord tells the Israelites it's OK to own slaves, provided they are strangers or heathens.

2) In Samuel 15:2-3, the Lord orders Saul to kill all the Amalekite men, women and infants.

3) In Exodus 15:3, the Bible tells us the Lord is a man of war.

4) In Numbers 31, the Lord tells Moses to kill all the Midianites, sparing only the virgins.

5) In Deuteronomy 13:6-16, the Lord instructs Israel to kill anyone who worships a different god or who worships the Lord differently.

6) In Mark 7:9, Jesus is critical of the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as prescribed by Old Testament law.

7) In Luke 19:22-27, Jesus orders killed anyone who refuses to be ruled by him.

Does this mean that Christianity is also a religion of terrorists? Overall, in the scope of history, more Christians have killed others in the name of religion than anyone else.

No, it doesn't. Because those statements are taken out of context and the Christian Crusaders were not truly following the word of God. It works the same way with Islam: terrorists are not following the true word of God, they are following a deranged terrorist who is brainwashing them. It's the terrorists fault, not Islam itself.

Lastly, I work with a practicing Muslim. Is he a terrorist? Does he deserve to die to stop terrorism?

 

[Nuc]

Lastly, I work with a practicing Muslim. Is he a terrorist? Does he deserve to die to stop terrorism?

Jeff, there are plenty of wonderful Muslim people. I have a lot of Muslim friends . Let's just kill the ones who want to kill us, before they do. Is that OK?

 

[Annie]

A twisted reading of Islam is, without a doubt, the philosophical reason for terrorism.

However, many portions of the Qur'an preach peace and compassion. The terrorists twist the Qur'an and leave these portions out to fulfil their own sick agenda. They use Islam for terror, but it's not a true reading of the Qur'an.

Waiting for the examples, ya know, chapter and verse...

 

[JeffWartman]

Waiting for the examples, ya know, chapter and verse...

I provided them above. All you have to do is look. I will copy/paste for you to make it easy...

Quote:
(Taken from http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa090402a.htm)

Nevertheless, the Qur'an repeatedly urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors." Some examples:

If anyone slays a person
- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -
it would be as if he slew all people.
And if anyone saves a life,
it would be as if he saved the life of all people.
Qur'an 5:32


Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching.
And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious . . .
And if you punish,
let your punishment be proportional to the wrong that has been done to you.
But if you show patience, that is indeed the best course.
Be patient, for your patience is from God.
And do not grieve over them, or distress yourself because of their plots.
For God is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Qur'an 16:125-128

Oh you who believe!
Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God,
even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin,
and whether it be against rich or poor,
for God can best protect both.
Follow not the cravings of your hearts, lest you swerve,
and if you distort justice or decline to do justice,
verily God is well acquainted with all that you do.
Qur'an 4:135

The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree),
but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from God,
for God loves not those who do wrong.
But indeed, if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong done to them,
against such there is no cause of blame.
The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing
and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land,
defying right and justice,
for such there will be a penalty grievous (in the Hereafter).
But indeed, if any show patience and forgive,
that would truly be an affair of great resolution.
Qur'an 42:40-43

Goodness and evil are not equal.
Repel evil with what is better.
Then that person with whom there was hatred,
may become your intimate friend!
And no one will be granted such goodness
except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,
none but people of the greatest good fortune.
Qur'an 41:34-35

 

[Annie]

I provided them above. All you have to do is look. I will copy/paste for you to make it easy...

Quote:
(Taken from http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa090402a.htm)

Nevertheless, the Qur'an repeatedly urges forgiveness and restraint, and warns believers not to "transgress" or become "oppressors." Some examples:

If anyone slays a person
- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -
it would be as if he slew all people.
And if anyone saves a life,
it would be as if he saved the life of all people.
Qur'an 5:32


Invite all to the way of your Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching.
And argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious . . .
And if you punish,
let your punishment be proportional to the wrong that has been done to you.
But if you show patience, that is indeed the best course.
Be patient, for your patience is from God.
And do not grieve over them, or distress yourself because of their plots.
For God is with those who restrain themselves, and those who do good.
Qur'an 16:125-128

Oh you who believe!
Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God,
even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin,
and whether it be against rich or poor,
for God can best protect both.
Follow not the cravings of your hearts, lest you swerve,
and if you distort justice or decline to do justice,
verily God is well acquainted with all that you do.
Qur'an 4:135

The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto (in degree),
but if a person forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from God,
for God loves not those who do wrong.
But indeed, if any do help and defend themselves after a wrong done to them,
against such there is no cause of blame.
The blame is only against those who oppress men with wrongdoing
and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land,
defying right and justice,
for such there will be a penalty grievous (in the Hereafter).
But indeed, if any show patience and forgive,
that would truly be an affair of great resolution.
Qur'an 42:40-43

Goodness and evil are not equal.
Repel evil with what is better.
Then that person with whom there was hatred,
may become your intimate friend!
And no one will be granted such goodness
except those who exercise patience and self-restraint,
none but people of the greatest good fortune.
Qur'an 41:34-35

ah, even when stacking the deck, a bit gets through. Truly, I wish that serious scholars, perhaps orthodox from each of the 3 great monotheistic faiths would meet and discuss.

 

[JeffWartman]

Jeff, there are plenty of wonderful Muslim people. I have a lot of Muslim friends . Let's just kill the ones who want to kill us, before they do. Is that OK?

That's exactly what I want to do!!! I am a supporter of the war on terror. I supported our military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I do not blindly follow the Neoconservative agenda.

We need to fight the war on terror the right way. We are currently fighting it the wrong way. The gutless Republicans in the Senate who want to give Geneva Convention protections to detainees are morons. We need people who will fight the fight right. Too bad there aren't any Goldwater's around. He'd kick the neocons in their asses

 

[Nuc]

That's exactly what I want to do!!! I am a supporter of the war on terror. I supported our military efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, I do not blindly follow the Neoconservative agenda.

We need to fight the war on terror the right way. We are currently fighting it the wrong way. The gutless Republicans in the Senate who want to give Geneva Convention protections to detainees are morons. We need people who will fight the fight right. Too bad there aren't any Goldwater's around. He'd kick the neocons in their asses

I am in favor of the Geneva Convention. I think we should give the "detainees" or whatever they are called in Newspeak their rights. Hopefully the Muslims will reciprocate when our boys and girls are detained. I wouldn't count on it, however. :crutch:

 

[nt250]

You are being slightly misleading.

For centuries, Christanity was violent and killed those whom they saw as non-believers.

The facts are this:
The Qur'an has violent passages
The Christian bible and the Jewish torah has violent passages

The Qur'an also preaches compassion
The bible and torah also preach compassion.

Bin Laden and the Islamic fascists twist the real meaning to the Qur'an to fit their terrorist agenda and brainwash people.

Let's blame and seek out terrorists, not blaming Islam itself.

Why do you say such things?

The "real" meaning of the Koran and Hadiths are plain and simple. Islam is a philosophy, a way of life, a political idealogy, and a religion, that allows a Muslim man to do whatever he wants, to whoever he wants, whenever he wants, as long as he can say it is in defense of Islam.

Anything.

I'm not making that up and I am not exaggerating. The proof is in the news every single day.

Murder? That's allowed.

Suicide? That's allowed, too. The highest honor any Muslim can strive for is to be a martyr in the defense of Islam. Killing, and dying, in defense of Islam brings glory in those that carry it out, and pride in those who are left behind. I'm not making that up.

The one thing that makes Islam different than the other Abrahamic religions is this: A Muslims first and only loyalty is to Islam. Not God or Allah. But to Islam itself.

A Christian will say that their belief is based on believing that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he scarificed himself for the sins of all mankind. That salvation his through Him. He is the path to God.

Ask a Muslim what they think of Muhammed. Go ahead. Ask.

 

[JeffWartman]

Why does Pale Rider disappear in each thread that I post this? I've posted the Qur'an verses in two posts, and in both, he seems to disappear...

 

[Nuc]

Why does Pale Rider disappear in each thread that I post this? I've posted the Qur'an verses in two posts, and in both, he seems to disappear...

He has more important things to do. He is actually at the local gay bar at the moment. Supposedly he is trying to convince them of the error of their ways, but after a few beers, well, you know..............

 

[JeffWartman]

He has more important things to do. He is actually at the local gay bar at the moment. Supposedly he is trying to convince them of the error of their ways, but after a few beers, well, you know..............

Seems to be like it. Once you show these idiot necons the truth, and how they aren't really Conservatives, they run and hide.

 

[JeffWartman]

Why won't Pale Rider respond???????????//