Feel the hate

[Silence]

Silence Wrote

Then why did he have such a strong relationship with the man? Why did he sit in his church for 20 years? Why did he marry and baptize his children in that church with that man as officiant? Why did he use his role in government to bring money to the man's church and to causes he supported? Why did he identify him as a mentor? Why did he use his words when writing his book?

because like I said, none of us knows what their releationship entailed. The conversations they had over the years. Perhaps Obama stayed in the church to show Wright a different way of thinking? Perhaps Obama didn't agree with him on the issue of race relations but found other common ground to forge a relationship with him? I have people in my life that I do not agree with them on issues like abortion and religion. They voice opinions and belief that I find reprehensible but I remain friends with them because they are important to me and they bring OTHER things to my life that go beyond their opinions.

Show me any person who belongs to a church who doesn't work to bring money into that church. it is one of my main complaints about organized religion...they always have their hand out for my money.

As for his book, the Audacity of Hope is a pretty compelling idea for a community and world that sometimes seems to be lacking hope.

I agree, Silence, that you can be friends with someone whom with you disagree with on key issues. But I have to disagree with you on your conclusions based on Obama's actions...I instead, see Obama as someone who was more than willing to either go along with or ignore Wright's statements while they were either non-harmful and/or politically helpful to him. I see him as someone who found much he liked in Wright's beliefs, hence why he involved his children in Wrights church...I see Obama as someone who wanted Wright's church, and Wright's message to grow and reach more people...hence his political assistance in getting them government monies...I see him as someone who believed in some, who knows how much, of Wright's message...hence why Wright had a role in Obama's life and campaign, up until the time when Obama threw him under the bus because his poll numbers were suffering.

you are reading far more into this situation than you could possibly gleen from just what you've seen on television. I do find it interesting when people make judgements on anyone else based on snippets and media junkets they see. It's like you think because you see a news story for 5 minutes somehow you've got the inside scope on every aspect of that person's life.

I don't disregard that Obama probably believe in some of Wright's message but which part? have you ever watched an entire sermon from him? I haven't. I don't know what else he talked about.

and not to bring Palin into this or even McCain but to say that somehow Obama is more guilty than they are of having questionable religious ties is funny. Palin belonged to a church that believes in End of Days and had hands laid on her by a pastor who tries to cast out witches! she sat in the church as a man talked about how the terrorist attacks on Isreal where God's punishment for the Jews treatment of Jesus! COME ON! McCain accepted, nay, sought, the endorsement of Pastor Hagee and then had to turn around and throw him under the bus.

I do not think we will ever know the extent of the Obama-Wright relationship, how much they agreed on or disagreed on...but I am surprised that you are willing to overlook so much and simply say "I believe that Barak Obama sat in the man's church and listened to him for 2 decades, gave him money, considered him a mentor...but didn't really believe most of what he was saying..." simply because it doesn't fit into your preferred view of your candidate.

well I sat in a church for more than a few years and didn't believe half of what came out of the pastor's mouth. I went because I enjoyed the sermons on service to God and I enjoyed the music. I didn't agree with him when he said that women working outside the home were causing the downfall of our society and I certainly didn't agree with him when he said that women who wore pants were why their men strayed because they were looking for a "real woman" to provide them comfort. So you see, I have some inkling of how it's possible to be a member of a church and not adhere to everything that comes out of the pastor's mouth.

I do agree that we'll never know what the extent of their relationship was and I also think we'll never know if Obama, privately tried to change wright's mind on his world view. I guess I've seen no evidence from Obama that he believes what Wright said because he's never uttered anything even remotely close to those sentiments. And no one can be that on guard all the time. Something would slip out in an unchecked moment, especially with the media following you 24/7

On a closing note...I DO feel that the Wright issue has been "done". I feel that people have made up their mind one way or the other and I hope that the media and/or the McCain campaign does not try to bring it up again...that doesnt mean, however...that I will stop expressing my surprise at people who feel that it is irrelevant...only that I don't think that the media needs to bring it up again on a large scale.

but why is it anymore relevant than Bush's belief that God speaks to him or that Palin belongs to a church that has guest speakers who believe god punishes Jews with terrorists or that there are witches?

People who are deeply religious are kind of an odd bunch IMO....Wright's beliefs aren't anymore radical than baptist churches who preach that gays are going to burn in hell and that women should be only serve their men.

 

[busara]

I didn't agree with him when he said that women working outside the home were causing the downfall of our society and I certainly didn't agree with him when he said that women who wore pants were why their men strayed because they were looking for a "real woman" to provide them comfort.

the pastor really said that?

"it is the womans fault that men stray. they should wear clothes that allow easier access to their naughty bits to appease their man"

 

[Gem]

Silence Wrote:

you are reading far more into this situation than you could possibly gleen from just what you've seen on television. I do find it interesting when people make judgements on anyone else based on snippets and media junkets they see. It's like you think because you see a news story for 5 minutes somehow you've got the inside scope on every aspect of that person's life.

I think this is a surprising statement considering you then go on to bash Palin and Palin's involvement in her church. Hardly seems honest to state that you refuse to make a judgment about Obama because of 5 minutes of video but then jumping right in to bash Palin based on 5 mintues of video.

Why not just come out and say it - you like Obama, so you're going to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he spent 20 years with a man he considered a mentor even though, according to you, he just happened to disagree with him on numerous integral issues...

 

[WillowTree]

Silence Wrote:


I think this is a surprising statement considering you then go on to bash Palin and Palin's involvement in her church. Hardly seems honest to state that you refuse to make a judgment about Obama because of 5 minutes of video but then jumping right in to bash Palin based on 5 mintues of video.

Why not just come out and say it - you like Obama, so you're going to give him the benefit of the doubt and believe that he spent 20 years with a man he considered a mentor even though, according to you, he just happened to disagree with on numerous integral issues...

oops!