Feds continue to drive up cost of education

Quantum Windbag

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May 9, 2010
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Did you know the Justice Department threatened several universities with legal action because they took part in an experimental program to allow students to use the Amazon Kindle for textbooks?
Last year, the schools -- among them Princeton, Arizona State and Case Western Reserve -- wanted to know if e-book readers would be more convenient and less costly than traditional textbooks. The environmentally conscious educators also wanted to reduce the huge amount of paper students use to print files from their laptops.
It seemed like a promising idea until the universities got a letter from the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, now under an aggressive new chief, Thomas Perez, telling them they were under investigation for possible violations of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Why did feds claim Kindle violates civil rights? | Washington Examiner

It seems that regulations make it illegal for universities to try and cut the textbook costs for students because blind people have a problem using Kindles, which they would not be required to use.
 
Did you know the Justice Department threatened several universities with legal action because they took part in an experimental program to allow students to use the Amazon Kindle for textbooks?
Last year, the schools -- among them Princeton, Arizona State and Case Western Reserve -- wanted to know if e-book readers would be more convenient and less costly than traditional textbooks. The environmentally conscious educators also wanted to reduce the huge amount of paper students use to print files from their laptops.
It seemed like a promising idea until the universities got a letter from the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, now under an aggressive new chief, Thomas Perez, telling them they were under investigation for possible violations of the Americans With Disabilities Act.

Why did feds claim Kindle violates civil rights? | Washington Examiner

It seems that regulations make it illegal for universities to try and cut the textbook costs for students because blind people have a problem using Kindles, which they would not be required to use.

and blind people don't have problems using textbooks? Who knew.......
 
Did you know the Justice Department threatened several universities with legal action because they took part in an experimental program to allow students to use the Amazon Kindle for textbooks?
Last year, the schools -- among them Princeton, Arizona State and Case Western Reserve -- wanted to know if e-book readers would be more convenient and less costly than traditional textbooks. The environmentally conscious educators also wanted to reduce the huge amount of paper students use to print files from their laptops.
It seemed like a promising idea until the universities got a letter from the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, now under an aggressive new chief, Thomas Perez, telling them they were under investigation for possible violations of the Americans With Disabilities Act.
Why did feds claim Kindle violates civil rights? | Washington Examiner

It seems that regulations make it illegal for universities to try and cut the textbook costs for students because blind people have a problem using Kindles, which they would not be required to use.

and blind people don't have problems using textbooks? Who knew.......

Yeah, that is the part that gets me. Maybe they can read the print by feeling the ink, like Daredevil.
 
Why did feds claim Kindle violates civil rights? | Washington Examiner

It seems that regulations make it illegal for universities to try and cut the textbook costs for students because blind people have a problem using Kindles, which they would not be required to use.

and blind people don't have problems using textbooks? Who knew.......

Yeah, that is the part that gets me. Maybe they can read the print by feeling the ink, like Daredevil.

You'd be amazed QW, you know the school I am on the school board of has a $10M a year budget and $1M of that is spent on 8 students? We spent almost $250K a year on ONE student, who frankly and sadly will never be in a position to take advantage of her education..... But we were ordered by a court to provide all the things we provide her. At the expense of 800 other kids of course.
 
I agree, this is retarded.

if it's what its purported to be, it sure is.

the question is can we trust a writer who called people opposed to arizona's law 'the chattering class'?

paranoia runs deep huh?

Grasping at straws

You are the chattering class. You are a small minority of Americans, who make a lot of noise. Support is still at 67% for the bill after the ruling, and Obama's Numbers are at there lowest.

Just keep chattering.
 
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I agree, this is retarded.

if it's what its purported to be, it sure is.

the question is can we trust a writer who called people opposed to arizona's law 'the chattering class'?

Wouldn't know, but I can definitely trust the DoJ to do the stupidest possible thing, and then announce it because they are proud of it.

Settlement Agreement between the United States and the National Federation of the Blind, Inc., the American Council of the Blind, the Arizona Board of Regents, and Arizona State University
 
I've been working for a college for a few years now and it still(and always will) amazes me what the price tag on higher education is! It seems like the Fed government prefers having their citizens healthy but ignorant after passing that travisty of a Health care bill...
 
and blind people don't have problems using textbooks? Who knew.......

Yeah, that is the part that gets me. Maybe they can read the print by feeling the ink, like Daredevil.

You'd be amazed QW, you know the school I am on the school board of has a $10M a year budget and $1M of that is spent on 8 students? We spent almost $250K a year on ONE student, who frankly and sadly will never be in a position to take advantage of her education..... But we were ordered by a court to provide all the things we provide her. At the expense of 800 other kids of course.

I'm not surprised, I doubt EZ would be either. This reminds me so much of the discussion we had regarding preschools, (Under Headstart topic, but not confined to that). Like preschool, I really have strong, positive feelings about inclusion and classes for special needs children.

I suppose the best way to begin this would be saying that I favor some additional costs in materials, support staff, specialists, to allow educable students to be educated. Thus the blind students should be able to use school owned devices that read the materials to them, be able to have braille materials, etc. The deaf/hearing impaired should have access to captioning of what is being said or accommodating devices to amplify/clarify audio. Children with low IQ's should have classes to allow the development of skills that prepare them for living independently or to the highest level they are able to achieve. Buildings, bathrooms, libraries, etc., should be accessible to the handicapped. Aids for kids with CP or other muscular/neurological problems, that do not effect their ability to learn are reasonable in most cases.

However, the schools and the people paying property taxes have picked up a burden that really is NOT sustainable. Medically fragile children and children that are not educable due to brain damage. To top it off, the NCLB Act also punishes schools that serve these children.

Years ago, when subbing I occasionally would work in 'self-contained special ed.' This actually would qualify as babysitting or nursing depending on the student. Thing is, most days there was the special ed. teacher, several aids, and at least 2 nurses for 3-7 students. One child was on a ventilator, she had her own nurse. She couldn't communicate obviously, though she seemed awake and in pain. I really don't know, I'm not a nurse.
There were several kids who could not control their bowels/bladder so they wore diapers. Aids would have to clean them up-they were 11-15 years old. Two of these kids were labeled severely autistic and would head bang/scream/run or walk in circles for hours.

Some of this of course is a result of parents not institutionalizing children as was done years ago, a very good thing. I applaud that. However, should providing respite/child care in the schools the way would should be doing this? I don't have the answers, but I am guessing that when the school's responsibility time runs out, these children then fall under social security. Why is it until 18 they are the local municipalities responsibility?
 
Yeah, that is the part that gets me. Maybe they can read the print by feeling the ink, like Daredevil.

You'd be amazed QW, you know the school I am on the school board of has a $10M a year budget and $1M of that is spent on 8 students? We spent almost $250K a year on ONE student, who frankly and sadly will never be in a position to take advantage of her education..... But we were ordered by a court to provide all the things we provide her. At the expense of 800 other kids of course.

I'm not surprised, I doubt EZ would be either. This reminds me so much of the discussion we had regarding preschools, (Under Headstart topic, but not confined to that). Like preschool, I really have strong, positive feelings about inclusion and classes for special needs children.

I suppose the best way to begin this would be saying that I favor some additional costs in materials, support staff, specialists, to allow educable students to be educated. Thus the blind students should be able to use school owned devices that read the materials to them, be able to have braille materials, etc. The deaf/hearing impaired should have access to captioning of what is being said or accommodating devices to amplify/clarify audio. Children with low IQ's should have classes to allow the development of skills that prepare them for living independently or to the highest level they are able to achieve. Buildings, bathrooms, libraries, etc., should be accessible to the handicapped. Aids for kids with CP or other muscular/neurological problems, that do not effect their ability to learn are reasonable in most cases.

However, the schools and the people paying property taxes have picked up a burden that really is NOT sustainable. Medically fragile children and children that are not educable due to brain damage. To top it off, the NCLB Act also punishes schools that serve these children.

Years ago, when subbing I occasionally would work in 'self-contained special ed.' This actually would qualify as babysitting or nursing depending on the student. Thing is, most days there was the special ed. teacher, several aids, and at least 2 nurses for 3-7 students. One child was on a ventilator, she had her own nurse. She couldn't communicate obviously, though she seemed awake and in pain. I really don't know, I'm not a nurse.
There were several kids who could not control their bowels/bladder so they wore diapers. Aids would have to clean them up-they were 11-15 years old. Two of these kids were labeled severely autistic and would head bang/scream/run or walk in circles for hours.

Some of this of course is a result of parents not institutionalizing children as was done years ago, a very good thing. I applaud that. However, should providing respite/child care in the schools the way would should be doing this? I don't have the answers, but I am guessing that when the school's responsibility time runs out, these children then fall under social security. Why is it until 18 they are the local municipalities responsibility?

That's about how this situation is. the really strange and frustrating part is, I offered a compromise. The school would hire someone to essentially take care of this child at her own home, which was already set up for her care, but no that wasn't good enough for the parents, they wanted t heir child in school with other children, never mind the fact that she doesn't interact with the other kids at all. So we had to buy special equipment to care for her, hire a full time teacher to teach her, because a nurse doesn't qualify as a teacher, and hire a nurse to take care of her, because a teacher won't do that part of the job. PLUS she has to be in her own room for most of the day because delicate medical equipment can't be somewhere where children might upset it. It's just ridiculous. I have no problem with providing educational opportunities to the disabled, who can actually benefit from said education, but think at some point a wiser use of resources would be to call it what it is, babysitting, and go from there.
 
How about a story I read somewhere last week about a CA town and its beach life guards building. Small two story place only used by the guards as a locker room, place to spend their break time, bathroom, etc. Only life guards though. And the city was insisting a boatload of money be spent to make the place wheelchair accessible.

Like what would be wrong with waiting until they hired their first chair-bound life guard?
 
How about a story I read somewhere last week about a CA town and its beach life guards building. Small two story place only used by the guards as a locker room, place to spend their break time, bathroom, etc. Only life guards though. And the city was insisting a boatload of money be spent to make the place wheelchair accessible.

Like what would be wrong with waiting until they hired their first chair-bound life guard?

What if they hire a supervisor or something that is in a wheelchair?
 
How about a story I read somewhere last week about a CA town and its beach life guards building. Small two story place only used by the guards as a locker room, place to spend their break time, bathroom, etc. Only life guards though. And the city was insisting a boatload of money be spent to make the place wheelchair accessible.

Like what would be wrong with waiting until they hired their first chair-bound life guard?

What if they hire a supervisor or something that is in a wheelchair?

Come on now, what happened to common sense? If you're not qualified you're not qualified. Take my career for instance, one of the requirements was the PT test, should people who weren't capable of passing said test be allowed to have whatever they needed to get themselves equal to those who could or should common sense prevail and say "no you just aren't capable of doing that job?"
 
Did they also make text books available to the blind students?

They can have braille or audiobooks, there choice.

This was not about the schools not supplying stuff to blind students, it was about them not supplying Kindles to sighted ones.
 
How about a story I read somewhere last week about a CA town and its beach life guards building. Small two story place only used by the guards as a locker room, place to spend their break time, bathroom, etc. Only life guards though. And the city was insisting a boatload of money be spent to make the place wheelchair accessible.

Like what would be wrong with waiting until they hired their first chair-bound life guard?

What if they hire a supervisor or something that is in a wheelchair?

Come on now, what happened to common sense? If you're not qualified you're not qualified. Take my career for instance, one of the requirements was the PT test, should people who weren't capable of passing said test be allowed to have whatever they needed to get themselves equal to those who could or should common sense prevail and say "no you just aren't capable of doing that job?"

I vote for common sense, which puts me in the minority.
 
What if they hire a supervisor or something that is in a wheelchair?

Come on now, what happened to common sense? If you're not qualified you're not qualified. Take my career for instance, one of the requirements was the PT test, should people who weren't capable of passing said test be allowed to have whatever they needed to get themselves equal to those who could or should common sense prevail and say "no you just aren't capable of doing that job?"

I vote for common sense, which puts me in the minority.

Obviously. Some of these fools would insist that fat lazy slow people have a right to be in the miltary to. no they don't.

Reminds me of when my kid was younger and I coached Little League, well every kid has to play and I did play them gladly, but the parents of the worst kids wanted those kids to play short stop or first base, and you'd try to explain to them that their child would be killed if you put them there, they just aren't capable, but they'd scream that it was their "right" . I never gave in. if you're outfield material, you're outfield material, such is life.
 

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