Federal Reserve Won't Say Who They Gave $2 Trillion To?

[Oddball]

The Fed will have no better luck outlawing cash than the fedgubmint has had outlawing booze or cocaine.

Like it or not, organic markets will always outlast tyrants.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The Fed will have no better luck outlawing cash than the fedgubmint has had outlawing booze or cocaine.

Like it or not, organic markets will always outlast tyrants.

I don't disagree. Just like with the implementation of fiat currency, the more astute observers and those that equated wealth with more than paper notes, continued to trade in commodities. But sure as sunshine, great numbers of people who, like yourself, vowed that gold notes would never be replaced by the new currency, eventuall caved in, died off and their vows were lost. Now trade in paper currency is the norm for the great majority of the population. Only the elite, the ones that can afford to not use it, don't. And so it will be for debit accounts. This paper currency will fade away and become as scarce as a Gold certificate is today. And many thought it would NEVER happen. But it did.

 

[Oddball]

Specie-backed currency didn't die off....It was outlawed by legal tender laws.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Specie-backed currency didn't die off....It was outlawed by legal tender laws.

Well yes, the currency. I was speaking of the numbers of people who clung to the idea. Not the notes themselves. Of course, the notes didn't die, they were killed.

The EFT act was the begining and the Federal Reserve admits that their long term solution to the problem of reconciling electronic credits against cash is the standardized use of the debit card.

Cash may be used and traded on the black market but it has no intrinsic value so it's use even there will be very limited. The bottom line is, if the government declares cash no good, it is no good. It has been done before.

 

[Oddball]

Paper cash, sure....

You have no idea about how so-called "junk" silver coin is currently being hoarded...do you??

 

[Sweet Willy]

Paper cash, sure....

You have no idea about how so-called "junk" silver coin is currently being hoarded...do you??

Dude, I make note of the fact that many will trade in comodities, the same as when coming off the gold standard. The gold certificates were spent quickly on fears of abolition, but the gold coins? Shit, I'll be a sweet heart and give you $25 each for every $20 US gold piece you bring me.

 

[Oddball]

The fact that even raggediest of $20.00 gold pieces from back in the day are worth in the neighborhood of $1,000 FRN "dollars" oughtta tell you something, Bubba.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The fact that even raggediest of $20.00 gold pieces from back in the day are worth in the neighborhood of $1,000 FRN "dollars" oughtta tell you something, Bubba.

Yes. I think we're chatting from the same note book, different pages.

I bought a few $20 pieces for $400 - $600 a while back.

 

[Oddball]

The value of my MS coin collection has e-x-p-l-o-d-e-d...let alone my junk "survival" rolls.

Do yourself a favor....Don't be a politically polarized dumbass, like bozo.

None of the assholes in the District of Criminals gives a ratsass about you....Best deal with the fact now.

 

[DamnYankee]

The Federal Reserve has a solution to the cash problems. They have done this before, they know how to handle it.

When the Gold Standard was removed, there were still US backed gold and silver certificates floating around. Part of the job of converting over to a fiat system was to collect all these gold and silver backed notes. The Depression helped most Americans get off of the gold and silver notes they were holding. Then they were declared ILLEGAL to posess. Nearly everyone spent their notes before they were declared illegal. What this did was to relieve the obligation to reconcile the notes with the gold they were purported to represent.

Fast forward to today. There is a vast amount of electronic currency floating around. Credits and debits. Just like with the gold standard, it is a very, very dangerous propositon if we were to ever see a large movement to reconcile electronic credits with actual currency or products. There simply have been too many electronic dollars created by fractional reserve policy. There is no actual value, much less currency attached to them.

The Federal Reserve plan to cure this is the same as the Gold plan. It has already begun. Switch everyone over to electronic currency and outlaw cash. Thus, there is no day of reckoning for reconciling our cash against the imaginary electronic money they have issued. They get away with the next heist of the century. And they are even more crafty about it this time. Hoards of Americans have already fallen for direct deposit and debit cards. You never even hold your money. You take a government credit redeemable in goods, not a measure of gold, not a denomination of cash, goods only.

It is the future and there is no stopping it. It has, for all intents, already happened. The wealthy and the few smart enough to find the cracks in the system will still deal in precious comodities. The masses will trade in worthless blips of electrons and actually PAY for the priviledge of doing so.

You have a link for that? It's my understanding that it was/is illegal to PRINT any additional bonds/certificates.

 

[editec]

how about we just do away with the FED, and put the gold back as backing to the U.S. dollar

Who do you think has all the gold? The good guys?!

This gold standard is a stupid idea that only stays alive because people do not understand how destructive the gold standard really is to working people.

We all understand why inflation and fiat dollars are so bad, but few of you seem to understand why the gold standard inevitably leads to continuous deflation.

Why you cannot get this through your libertarian skuills I cannot understand.

It's a simple concept, but I guess concepts aren't really your thing.

There is a finate amount of gold.

There is an infinite amount of good and services.

Since the amount of gold (in gold standard economy) reaimins basically static, but the amount of good and services rises in a healthy economy, that would inevitably lead to a continuous state of DEflation.

Now I have asked some of the board's gold bugs to explain to me how their system could fuction in a state of coninuous deflation and to date not a single one of you has a clue.

Wake up!

The gold standard cannot work in a vibrant growing economy.

And as long as the population continues to grow, we must have a growing amount of specie in order to have a CAPITALISTIC system.

If you want to live in a static feudal society, the gold standard will work just fine.

Is that what you guys want?

 

[sealybobo]

how about we just do away with the FED, and put the gold back as backing to the U.S. dollar

Who do you think has all the gold? The good guys?!

This gold standard is a stupid idea that only stays alive because people do not understand how destructive the gold standard really is to working people.

We all understand why inflation and fiat dollars are so bad, but few of you seem to understand why the gold standard inevitably leads to continuous deflation.

Why you cannot get this through your libertarian skuills I cannot understand.

It's a simple concept, but I guess concepts aren't really your thing.

There is a finate amount of gold.

There is an infinite amount of good and services.

Since the amount of gold (in gold standard economy) reaimins basically static, but the amount of good and services rises in a healthy economy, that would inevitably lead to a continuous state of DEflation.

Now I have asked some of the board's gold bugs to explain to me how their system could fuction in a state of coninuous deflation and to date not a single one of you has a clue.

Wake up!

The gold standard cannot work in a vibrant growing economy.

And as long as the population continues to grow, we must have a growing amount of specie in order to have a CAPITALISTIC system.

If you want to live in a static feudal society, the gold standard will work just fine.

Is that what you guys want?

I don't know if what you are saying is right or wrong. But, how about this. How about if there is 100 gold bars and 100 people, each bar is worth $100. And if the population grows to 200, can't they just increase the value of those gold bars? Or decrease the value when necessary?

Gold prices go up and down.

 

[Sweet Willy]

how about we just do away with the FED, and put the gold back as backing to the U.S. dollar

Who do you think has all the gold? The good guys?!

This gold standard is a stupid idea that only stays alive because people do not understand how destructive the gold standard really is to working people.

We all understand why inflation and fiat dollars are so bad, but few of you seem to understand why the gold standard inevitably leads to continuous deflation.

Why you cannot get this through your libertarian skuills I cannot understand.

It's a simple concept, but I guess concepts aren't really your thing.

There is a finate amount of gold.

There is an infinite amount of good and services.

Since the amount of gold (in gold standard economy) reaimins basically static, but the amount of good and services rises in a healthy economy, that would inevitably lead to a continuous state of DEflation.

Now I have asked some of the board's gold bugs to explain to me how their system could fuction in a state of coninuous deflation and to date not a single one of you has a clue.

Wake up!

The gold standard cannot work in a vibrant growing economy.

And as long as the population continues to grow, we must have a growing amount of specie in order to have a CAPITALISTIC system.

If you want to live in a static feudal society, the gold standard will work just fine.

Is that what you guys want?

I don't know if what you are saying is right or wrong. But, how about this. How about if there is 100 gold bars and 100 people, each bar is worth $100. And if the population grows to 200, can't they just increase the value of those gold bars? Or decrease the value when necessary?

Gold prices go up and down.

No, the gold standard doesn't work that way. That would defeat the entire purpose. A gold certificate or note, is worth a measure of gold. A note that is worth one ounce when it is printed, must be worth one ounce forever. Otherwise, you aren't on a gold standard. What has the value, the paper notes or the gold?

 

[DamnYankee]

Put another log on the fire.....


CNBC's Rick Santelli says Geithner was lying when he told the Chinese there is no risk of monetizing debt in the United States.



RealClearPolitics - Video - Santelli: Geithner Is "Lying To The American Public"

 

[sealybobo]

Who do you think has all the gold? The good guys?!

This gold standard is a stupid idea that only stays alive because people do not understand how destructive the gold standard really is to working people.

We all understand why inflation and fiat dollars are so bad, but few of you seem to understand why the gold standard inevitably leads to continuous deflation.

Why you cannot get this through your libertarian skuills I cannot understand.

It's a simple concept, but I guess concepts aren't really your thing.

There is a finate amount of gold.

There is an infinite amount of good and services.

Since the amount of gold (in gold standard economy) reaimins basically static, but the amount of good and services rises in a healthy economy, that would inevitably lead to a continuous state of DEflation.

Now I have asked some of the board's gold bugs to explain to me how their system could fuction in a state of coninuous deflation and to date not a single one of you has a clue.

Wake up!

The gold standard cannot work in a vibrant growing economy.

And as long as the population continues to grow, we must have a growing amount of specie in order to have a CAPITALISTIC system.

If you want to live in a static feudal society, the gold standard will work just fine.

Is that what you guys want?

I don't know if what you are saying is right or wrong. But, how about this. How about if there is 100 gold bars and 100 people, each bar is worth $100. And if the population grows to 200, can't they just increase the value of those gold bars? Or decrease the value when necessary?

Gold prices go up and down.

No, the gold standard doesn't work that way. That would defeat the entire purpose. A gold certificate or note, is worth a measure of gold. A note that is worth one ounce when it is printed, must be worth one ounce forever. Otherwise, you aren't on a gold standard. What has the value, the paper notes or the gold?

Well maybe we just need to raise the value of gold if their isn't enough. Our worthless dollar seems to be raising the price of gold. And I believe gold's value would go up if we went back to the gold standard. Anyways, i haven't heard all the pros and cons to be able to intelligently decide, so I'll trust you that it can't be done.

Regardless! I want to take the Federal Reserve away from the private bankers that own and profit from it. And then bail themselves out with our tax dollars after they go too far. And it was our long term savings they fucked!!! Who's bailing us out?

Bankers will still run it. Like Geitner and Bernaeke. But bankers won't own it anymore. Just like we shouldn't let blackwater in Iraq because they are war for profit and so will never want the war to end. The bankers want us to keep doubling the debt.

And we shouldn't be paying interest on the debt. If we owe China money, then we should have to pay interest to them, but not interest on the debt we own. If we owned it, we wouldn't charge ourselves interest.

And we shouldn't be paying taxes on our labor. But because of all the spending, they need it. The GOP socialized all the losses and privatized all the profits.

Back in the day the corporations paid the taxes on their income/profits and labor didn't. But the government loves to overspend so they were easily convinced to pass this unconstitutional tax. I think it was to pay for WW1 and 2. But of course they never ended the income tax. It was too good to get rid of.

 

[Navy1960]

WASHINGTON — Despite broad Republican opposition, the Democratic-controlled Congress gave final approval Friday night of President Obama's $787 billion stimulus bill designed to jumpstart the nation's economy.
The Senate voted 60-38, to pass the bill — the minimum needed for approval. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid held off the final vote until Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, could return from his mother's memorial services to cast the deciding vote.
Congress passes $787B economic stimulus bill - USATODAY.com

DENVER -- President Barack Obama signed his $787 billion economic stimulus package into law Tuesday, with an upbeat speech emphasizing the road to recovery.

Obama Signs Stimulus Into Law - WSJ.com

Funny thing I didnt see George Bush there at the signing ceremony, I could be wrong though he might have been lurking in the audience somewhere. the fact remains that the 750 billion your talking about here was an Obama led charge as was the Auto Bail-Outs and many others. However if your talking about TARP then I stand corrected.

The budget deficit this year is projected to reach $1.85 trillion, equivalent to 13 percent of the nation’s economy, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rve-wont-say-who-they-gave-2-trillion-to.html

Given the fact that President Obama has nationalized GM and presided over the destrustion of two american car companies, and has forgiven more than 40 billion dollars in debt to them and is poised to give GM 50 billion more and couple that with the fact the debt has quadrupled under his short term in office. Still further he plans to institue an almost Trillion dollar healthcare plan. It sort of makes George W. Bush look like a financial titan. Which we all know is far from the truth as well.

 

[Sweet Willy]

Given the fact that President Obama has nationalized GM and presided over the destrustion of two american car companies, and has forgiven more than 40 billion dollars in debt to them and is poised to give GM 50 billion more and couple that with the fact the debt has quadrupled under his short term in office. Still further he plans to institue an almost Trillion dollar healthcare plan. It sort of makes George W. Bush look like a financial titan. Which we all know is far from the truth as well.

See that bolded lie?

The debt has not quadrupled. It is just over 11 trillion dollars. Just about what it was when Bush left.

Not to say that we will not incur further debt, but claiming it has reached 40 trillion is just a tad bit over the top.


Sealy, to understand the gold standard, you just have to imnagine that money is actually worthless. Only gold has value. The paper money just represents the gold. A $100 certificate would always be worth the same as a $100 gold coin. It's the gold, you see.

I do agree the Fed is a joke and should be replaced with a Federal Owned central bank. There is no reasonable explanation for why a handful of wealthy elites own the means of monetary distribution in the US.

 

[Navy1960]

The Federal Government’s flood of red ink hit another high-water mark as the Treasury Department quietly reported today that the National Debt hit $11-trillion for the first time ever.

To be exact, the Debt now stands at $11,033,157,578,669.78. Divide it by the U.S. population and it comes up to over $36,000 in debt for every man, woman and child among us.

And the government is running up mountains of debt with increasing speed. It took just over 5 ½ months for Uncle Sam to go another trillion dollars deeper in debt since hitting $10-trillion last September 30th. It’s the fastest jump in U.S. history.
National Debt Hits Record $11 Trillion | Political Hotsheet - CBS News
On Friday, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said this year’s budget deficit is now nearly $1.7 trillion, more than $400 billion larger than it forecast two months ago. Next year’s deficit will be nearly $1.1 trillion, $430 billion more than its prior forecast. And that doesn’t count President Obama’s budget plans to cut taxes and increase spending.

Although the deepening recession is partly to blame for the increase, the nonpartisan CBO says the increases are largely due to the sharp rise in spending (think fiscal stimulus package) and the higher cost of saving the financial system.
CBO: US deficit ballooning to record $1.7 trillion | csmonitor.com
The US federal deficit is set to quadruple this year to a breathtaking 12.3 per cent of gross domestic product under Barack Obama's first budget – designed simultaneously to haul the country out of the crippling recession and serve as a springboard for the biggest overhaul of the national economy since Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal.

Obama's economic kick-start will quadruple US debt - Americas, World - The Independent

If thats not clear enough I can add more if you like? Had I wanted to day National Debt I would have.

 

[Sweet Willy]

The Federal Government’s flood of red ink hit another high-water mark as the Treasury Department quietly reported today that the National Debt hit $11-trillion for the first time ever.

To be exact, the Debt now stands at $11,033,157,578,669.78. Divide it by the U.S. population and it comes up to over $36,000 in debt for every man, woman and child among us.

And the government is running up mountains of debt with increasing speed. It took just over 5 ½ months for Uncle Sam to go another trillion dollars deeper in debt since hitting $10-trillion last September 30th. It’s the fastest jump in U.S. history.
National Debt Hits Record $11 Trillion | Political Hotsheet - CBS News
On Friday, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said this year’s budget deficit is now nearly $1.7 trillion, more than $400 billion larger than it forecast two months ago. Next year’s deficit will be nearly $1.1 trillion, $430 billion more than its prior forecast. And that doesn’t count President Obama’s budget plans to cut taxes and increase spending.

Although the deepening recession is partly to blame for the increase, the nonpartisan CBO says the increases are largely due to the sharp rise in spending (think fiscal stimulus package) and the higher cost of saving the financial system.
CBO: US deficit ballooning to record $1.7 trillion | csmonitor.com
The US federal deficit is set to quadruple this year to a breathtaking 12.3 per cent of gross domestic product under Barack Obama's first budget – designed simultaneously to haul the country out of the crippling recession and serve as a springboard for the biggest overhaul of the national economy since Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal.

Obama's economic kick-start will quadruple US debt - Americas, World - The Independent

If thats not clear enough I can add more if you like? Had I wanted to day National Debt I would have.

Navy, please do keep adding until you get to 40 trillion.

You claimed that Obama has already quadrupled the debt in his short time in office. It was over 10 trillion when he came in. For the sake of argument, let's just say 10 trillion.

Show us this 40 trillion dollar claim of yours.

I don't beleive you.

 

[sealybobo]

WASHINGTON — Despite broad Republican opposition, the Democratic-controlled Congress gave final approval Friday night of President Obama's $787 billion stimulus bill designed to jumpstart the nation's economy.
The Senate voted 60-38, to pass the bill — the minimum needed for approval. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid held off the final vote until Sen. Sherrod Brown, D-Ohio, could return from his mother's memorial services to cast the deciding vote.
Congress passes $787B economic stimulus bill - USATODAY.com

DENVER -- President Barack Obama signed his $787 billion economic stimulus package into law Tuesday, with an upbeat speech emphasizing the road to recovery.

Obama Signs Stimulus Into Law - WSJ.com

Funny thing I didnt see George Bush there at the signing ceremony, I could be wrong though he might have been lurking in the audience somewhere. the fact remains that the 750 billion your talking about here was an Obama led charge as was the Auto Bail-Outs and many others. However if your talking about TARP then I stand corrected.

The budget deficit this year is projected to reach $1.85 trillion, equivalent to 13 percent of the nation’s economy, according to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...rve-wont-say-who-they-gave-2-trillion-to.html

Given the fact that President Obama has nationalized GM and presided over the destrustion of two american car companies, and has forgiven more than 40 billion dollars in debt to them and is poised to give GM 50 billion more and couple that with the fact the debt has quadrupled under his short term in office. Still further he plans to institue an almost Trillion dollar healthcare plan. It sort of makes George W. Bush look like a financial titan. Which we all know is far from the truth as well.

Nice right wing spin on this.

Are you confusing the $750 billion bailout to the stimulus bill? I think you are.

And why do you care about $750 billion when I'm showing you that the Federal Reserve gave themselves/the bankers $2 TRILLION last year when Bush was in office. That's 2000 billions dummy.

Where's your teabag now?