Federal Judge: Late-term abortion ban unconstitutional

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Originally posted by dilloduck
So are you saying that because " the cooking" occurs in the womans body that she should be the only one who is responsible for taking care of it and the only one who has the now legal right to determine if it lives or dies?

I remember in a college class, a woman declaring that a fetus was a parasite. So we all called her the host creature. Just brought back some fond memories.


Alot of interesting thoughts on this thread. My own view is that abortion should be legal up to the time the fetus is viable outside the womb. I'd also be in favor of giving the man a "veto" on the theory that if the child has a parent that wants it, then the child should be born. Of course, the pro-life folks would want to set this up so women would have to get a waiver from the guy, and the pro-life people wont hear of it. No way to implement any sane idea in a sensible fashion on this subject. The status quo isnt really that bad--we need better, cheaper, safer, easier to use birth control, but some people resist birth control to the extent of not even wanting to talk about it in school, which is just insane.
 
I just want to understand the double standard of the abortionists.

A guy has no say if the baby (fetus, whatever) lives or not, yet if the woman - who has all the rights - decides to keep the child, then the guy - who had no say, remember - is now responsible.....

Plese explain..... not computing.......:p:
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1
I just want to understand the double standard of the abortionists.

A guy has no say if the baby (fetus, whatever) lives or not, yet if the woman - who has all the rights - decides to keep the child, then the guy - who had no say, remember - is now responsible.....

Plese explain..... not computing.......:p:

All I can think of is as I posted-----womens rights issue that has run amok. Certain feminists discovered the my baby-my body issue and the Supreme Court bought it. No offense to women but it is a cruel way to attempt to attain the equality you so deserve!
 
Originally posted by dilloduck
All I can think of is as I posted-----womens rights issue that has run amok. Certain feminists discovered the my baby-my body issue and the Supreme Court bought it. No offense to women but it is a cruel way to attempt to attain the equality you so deserve!

The US Supreme Court has apparently decided no life in preborn and women have right to decide about their own bodies that which man cannot decide for them..
 
Originally posted by ajwps
The US Supreme Court has apparently decided no life in preborn and women have right to decide about their own bodies that which man cannot decide for them..

Still doesn't answer why the double standard. If the "right" to live or die belongs to the woman, then she should take full responsibility. Either that, or maybe women should have to pay the man a "fine" for aborting the child..... Kinda in keeping with your interpretation of Exodus.....
 
Originally posted by ajwps
The US Supreme Court has apparently decided no life in preborn and women have right to decide about their own bodies that which man cannot decide for them..

Hence women now have the power to ;

1 Decide whether the fetus lives or dies.

2 Force the father to financially support her and her child for 18 years should she chose to have the baby.

Ever seen a family court in action?
 
Originally posted by ajwps
You are again playing with words (symantics). Why do you use the word 'children' when referencing the Creator. You may think that a man-god can be measured, weighed, seen on a cross or come down in a Holy Ghost form to father human-god babies. Unfortunately G-d cannot be seen and is not a human being and does not have children through sex with a engaged woman. The Creator of the universe does not have 'children' for that word is used as a metaphor for one of His CREATIONS. You are not a kid, an offspring of nor a blood relative of the Creator.
I don't want to continue this discussion. It's just too difficult, now that I know that you and I worship two distinct Gods. Thanks for your insight, though. One thing I enjoy about religious discussions is finding out all the different takes and beliefs that people have.

-Douglas
 
Originally posted by Jule
The status quo isnt really that bad--we need better, cheaper, safer, easier to use birth control, but some people resist birth control to the extent of not even wanting to talk about it in school, which is just insane.

Better, Cheaper, Easier to use birth control has been around for milllinium. its called Chastity.
 
Originally posted by ajwps
The US Supreme Court has apparently decided no life in preborn and women have right to decide about their own bodies that which man cannot decide for them..

The supreme court has no authority over the Constitution.

Therefore, they are invalid in making such a decision.
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1

Still doesn't answer why the double standard. If the "right" to live or die belongs to the woman, then she should take full responsibility. Either that, or maybe women should have to pay the man a "fine" for aborting the child..... Kinda in keeping with your interpretation of Exodus.....

Again what makes you think that the woman is deciding life and death of her unborn fetus? You like many people automatically take it into their heads that they personally know the answer to the question of when is a life more than a forming group of potential body parts that appears to move and react.

You have every right to decide this question for yourself but as you say, the woman actually takes personal responsibility for her own actions in this life just as you do with yours.

The man hasn't lost a potential worker in his farm fields (unless he is a farmer in a country without tractors) and usually enjoyed his little delivery into the woman, why should he be payed for his pleasures?

Anti-abortionists are in truth morally responsible for the death of human beings. When there was no federal law (Roe vs Wade) allowing lawful abortions, many women had their abortions in back rooms or in garages with coat hangers resulting in massive infections and or hemmorhage resulting in the death of a living human being (the woman). Is this what you wish to be responsible for during your lifetme?

Let women be responsible for their own actions instead of a man centered world making decisions for woman.
 
Originally posted by NewGuy
The supreme court has no authority over the Constitution.

Therefore, they are invalid in making such a decision.

Please be so kind as to point out in the US Constitution just where it says that women have no right to have abortions? That would be a real coup alright.

By the way, the Constitution does give the right to the Supreme Court to define the meanings in this document and to pass make decisions that affect all American's lives.
 
Originally posted by dilloduck
Hence women now have the power to ;

1 Decide whether the fetus lives or dies.

YES

2 Force the father to financially support her and her child for 18 years should she chose to have the baby.

YES

Ever seen a family court in action?


YES
 
Originally posted by ajwps
Anti-abortionists are in truth morally responsible for the death of human beings. When there was no federal law (Roe vs Wade) allowing lawful abortions, many women had their abortions in back rooms or in garages with coat hangers resulting in massive infections and or hemmorhage resulting in the death of a living human being (the woman). Is this what you wish to be responsible for during your lifetme?

Let women be responsible for their own actions instead of a man centered world making decisions for woman.
In one paragraph you blame Anti-abortionists for be responsible for a woman trying to kill her baby by using a coat hanger for an abortion, but in the next one you're saying let women be responsible for their own actions. Wouldn't the woman with the coat hanger trying to kill her unborn child be responsible for that too? I'm not a doctor but I think it's a pretty bad idea to shove a coat hanger inside myself, therefore if I did it, I would be responsible for it wouldn't I?
 
you still ignore the crux of my question. If it is the woman's right to decide whether the child lives or dies (she decides this since she has the right to decide if the unborn makes it to term or not) then why the double standard? The man should then be absolved of all responsibility. That would make the most sense and would follow logic since the woman says it is her choice. That is all I am getting at. I am not going to debate abortion as everybody has their own view. I just want to know why the double standard.
 
Originally posted by Hannitized
In one paragraph you blame Anti-abortionists for be responsible for a woman trying to kill her baby by using a coat hanger for an abortion, but in the next one you're saying let women be responsible for their own actions. Wouldn't the woman with the coat hanger trying to kill her unborn child be responsible for that too? I'm not a doctor but I think it's a pretty bad idea to shove a coat hanger inside myself, therefore if I did it, I would be responsible for it wouldn't I?

Let me clear this up for you Mr. Shawn:

You are confusing two different statements.

1) Women never or rarely used a coat hanger to abort themselves but lay people (non-physicians) did exactly that. The abortion procedure with a foreign object had a high mortality rate even during the time of Jesus Christ. Abortions in the United States before Roe vs Wade were greater in number than they are today when it is legal.

2) With legal abortions (Roe vs Wade) now the law of the land, each pregnant women or teenage girl can choose to terminate the forming shell that has no LIFE (soul) in it.

That is because what everyone does is between themselves and their G-d.

You have to keep your thoughts straight and not get them mixed up with two very different concepts.
 
Originally posted by ajwps
Again what makes you think that the woman is deciding life and death of her unborn fetus? You like many people automatically take it into their heads that they personally know the answer to the question of when is a life more than a forming group of potential body parts that appears to move and react.

You have every right to decide this question for yourself but as you say, the woman actually takes personal responsibility for her own actions in this life just as you do with yours.

The man hasn't lost a potential worker in his farm fields (unless he is a farmer in a country without tractors) and usually enjoyed his little delivery into the woman, why should he be payed for his pleasures?

Anti-abortionists are in truth morally responsible for the death of human beings. When there was no federal law (Roe vs Wade) allowing lawful abortions, many women had their abortions in back rooms or in garages with coat hangers resulting in massive infections and or hemmorhage resulting in the death of a living human being (the woman). Is this what you wish to be responsible for during your lifetme?

Let women be responsible for their own actions instead of a man centered world making decisions for woman.

The problem is that in deciding to abort, the woman makes a decision for the unborn AND the father. Your portrayal of fatherhood as child slavery is despicable!!:puke3:
 
Originally posted by freeandfun1
you still ignore the crux of my question. If it is the woman's right to decide whether the child lives or dies (she decides this since she has the right to decide if the unborn makes it to term or not) then why the double standard? The man should then be absolved of all responsibility. That would make the most sense and would follow logic since the woman says it is her choice. That is all I am getting at. I am not going to debate abortion as everybody has their own view. I just want to know why the double standard.

Let me requote your original thought so that there is no mistake about your question.

Still doesn't answer why the double standard. If the "right" to live or die belongs to the woman, then she should take full responsibility. Either that, or maybe women should have to pay the man a "fine" for aborting the child..... Kinda in keeping with your interpretation of Exodus.....

You still are not making clear your 'double standard' posit.

If a woman decides to terminate her pregnancy before the child has a HUMAN LIFE or a HUMAN SOUL, then she is taking an action for which she has to take responsbility based on any belief she might have which is between her and her own G-d.

The man should understand that he does not possess or control the unborn fetus to which he contributed only half of his gene pool. If the man does not believe in abortion, then he must understand that he only is responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of a full term LIVE HUMAN BEING. Otherwise he should not have caused a woman to have to carry and incubate a possible human being.

If this does not answer your 'double standard' question, then reword it for it be more clearly be defined and understood.
 
Originally posted by dilloduck
The problem is that in deciding to abort, the woman makes a decision for the unborn AND the father. Your portrayal of fatherhood as child slavery is despicable!!:puke3:

Actually I did not portray fatherhood and/or child slavery in any way to be similar or fact.

But the fact is that abortion is probably as old as recorded history and no amount of mental gymnastics about who decides what and when is moot.
 
Mr. Shawn? I'm "Hannitized" not "Hannity". But thanks for the compliment.
I need to keep MY thoughts straight? I was going off of YOUR post. One paragraph right after another.

Originally posted by ajwps
Anti-abortionists are in truth morally responsible for the death of human beings. When there was no federal law (Roe vs Wade) allowing lawful abortions, many women had their abortions in back rooms or in garages with coat hangers resulting in massive infections and or hemmorhage resulting in the death of a living human being (the woman). Is this what you wish to be responsible for during your lifetme?

Let women be responsible for their own actions instead of a man centered world making decisions for woman.

You even asked "is this what you wish to be responsible for during your lifetime?" meaning (and this is how it looks to me) that if abortion should be made illegal again, then women are going to go around having abortions with coat hangers and it would be the anti-abortionists fault. Is that not what you were saying? Why not blame the woman whose allowing a coat hanger to be shoved up in her?
Next line you want to let women be responsible for their own actions, well hell, if they're actions lead them to a coat hanger up their ass then shouldn't they be responsible for it?
Originally posted by ajwps
Women never or rarely used a coat hanger to abort themselves but lay people (non-physicians) did exactly that.
It doesn't matter who guided the hanger, they allowed a hanger to be used.
So first it's the anti-abortionists fault, then the lay people, and the responsiblility never falls on the women who did this? Way to "pass the buck". I'm glad I'm female, I don't have to take responsibility for shit. WooHoo!
Originally posted by ajwpsAbortions in the United States before Roe vs Wade were greater in number than they are today when it is legal.
So, more women had abortions because they were illegal? Is this what you're saying?
 
Originally posted by ajwps
Otherwise he should not have caused a woman to have to carry and incubate a possible human being.
Holy shit! Now she's not even responsible if she gets pregnant?
Damn men should know how to control their sperm!! Bastards!
:rolleyes:
 

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