CDZ Federal government furloughs should be permanent.

[rightwinger]

Spent 33 years working for DoD

Saw some of the best and some of the worst in terms of employee incentives
I saw what happens when you save money by slashing employee benefits and compensation. Saw what happens when you offer graduating engineers $22,000 while the private sector is offering $35,000. Private sector gets the A and B students while the Government gets the C students. Government ends up hiring the people cut lose by the private sector

So in negotiating with defense contractors you are sending Junior Engineers to deal with the Defense Industries top people

 

[alang1216]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

The gov't has a real hard time keeping employees. They can generally make more in the private sector so the young, the competent, and the ambitious ones leave. What does that leave?

 

[rightwinger]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

The gov't has a real hard time keeping employees. They can generally make more in the private sector so the young, the competent, and the ambitious ones leave. What does that leave?

If you can't compete for the best, you end up with the leftovers

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This thread isn't serious?

Yep, lets fire people that maintain our country, help people, regulate our air, water and food. Republicans are not serious people but fools that think that sitting around with their fingers in their butts that we will somehow be great.

Dumb

Don't berate yourself so.

Most of them do nothing but push paper, in duplicate.

 

[rightwinger]

This thread isn't serious?

Yep, lets fire people that maintain our country, help people, regulate our air, water and food. Republicans are not serious people but fools that think that sitting around with their fingers in their butts that we will somehow be great.

Dumb

Don't berate yourself so.

Most of them do nothing but push paper, in duplicate.

These are the people given the responsibility to spend trillions of the taxpayer dollars
Want to cut corners? What do you think will happen?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This thread isn't serious?

Yep, lets fire people that maintain our country, help people, regulate our air, water and food. Republicans are not serious people but fools that think that sitting around with their fingers in their butts that we will somehow be great.

Dumb

Don't berate yourself so.

Most of them do nothing but push paper, in duplicate.

These are the people given the responsibility to spend trillions of the taxpayer dollars
Want to cut corners? What do you think will happen?

Did I say corners?

Or are you still coming down from last night's trip?

 

[rightwinger]

This thread isn't serious?

Yep, lets fire people that maintain our country, help people, regulate our air, water and food. Republicans are not serious people but fools that think that sitting around with their fingers in their butts that we will somehow be great.

Dumb

Don't berate yourself so.

Most of them do nothing but push paper, in duplicate.

These are the people given the responsibility to spend trillions of the taxpayer dollars
Want to cut corners? What do you think will happen?

Did I say corners?

Or are you still coming down from last night's trip?

No idea what you are babbling about

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

This thread isn't serious?

Yep, lets fire people that maintain our country, help people, regulate our air, water and food. Republicans are not serious people but fools that think that sitting around with their fingers in their butts that we will somehow be great.

Dumb

Don't berate yourself so.

Most of them do nothing but push paper, in duplicate.

These are the people given the responsibility to spend trillions of the taxpayer dollars
Want to cut corners? What do you think will happen?

Did I say corners?

Or are you still coming down from last night's trip?

No idea what you are babbling about

That is why you fail.

 

[Toronado3800]

Many Americans including myself believe the Federal Government is overstaffed and overpaid. This is due in part to lack of oversight within government departments which has allowed empire building to bloat the payrolls.

There is also redundancy that could easily be eliminated through consolidation (e.g. the 17 intelligence agencies). Add to that the salaries levels are out of control. I thought GS 15 was the maximum salary level. It is not. There are senior level pay scales that top out at over $200 thousand per year.
Executive Schedule (ES)

• 2017
• 2016
• 2015
• 2014

ES Level Education Level Salary
ES Level 1 Ph.D. $207,800
ES Level 2 Ph.D. $187,000
ES Level 3 Ph.D. $172,100
ES Level 4 Ph.D. $161,900
ES Level 5 Ph.D. $151,700

What are these people doing that merit these salary levels all paid with our tax dollars?

I propose that along with looking at layoffs within each department and consolidation, all departments implement an across the board furlough of 1 day off without pay for every 20 days worked.

That would result in an immediate 5% cut in the Federal payroll with zero impact to services. This IMO is a no-brainer that should be implemented immediately along with other cost cutting measures that includes layoffs and shutting down and consolidation of departments and agencies.

Here is the big problem. As outsiders we do not know who is accomplishing something and who is not.

Personally I'd like to start with just the Corps of Engineers. IMO they have failed us economically and environmentally. The only thing this Corps accomplishes is welfare for land developers, welfare for the the descendants of farmers and welfare for barge traffic.

BUT, wouldn't you know it, the descendants of farmers lobbyists and the barge industry lobbyists are going to fight against any cuts to the Corps.

As a longer term more minor problem releasing government employees may lead to a lowering of salaries. A part of capitalism is what competition does to prices. When there is more competition for fewer jobs the cost of labor will go down. Great for companies and 1%ers. Bad for people with jobs and I THINK they economy as a whole. The lowering of wages does not keep me from loving your idea. It makes me want to take it on slowly though.

 

[alang1216]

Many Americans including myself believe the Federal Government is overstaffed and overpaid. This is due in part to lack of oversight within government departments which has allowed empire building to bloat the payrolls.

There is also redundancy that could easily be eliminated through consolidation (e.g. the 17 intelligence agencies). Add to that the salaries levels are out of control. I thought GS 15 was the maximum salary level. It is not. There are senior level pay scales that top out at over $200 thousand per year.
Executive Schedule (ES)

• 2017
• 2016
• 2015
• 2014

ES Level Education Level Salary
ES Level 1 Ph.D. $207,800
ES Level 2 Ph.D. $187,000
ES Level 3 Ph.D. $172,100
ES Level 4 Ph.D. $161,900
ES Level 5 Ph.D. $151,700

What are these people doing that merit these salary levels all paid with our tax dollars?

I propose that along with looking at layoffs within each department and consolidation, all departments implement an across the board furlough of 1 day off without pay for every 20 days worked.

That would result in an immediate 5% cut in the Federal payroll with zero impact to services. This IMO is a no-brainer that should be implemented immediately along with other cost cutting measures that includes layoffs and shutting down and consolidation of departments and agencies.

Here is the big problem. As outsiders we do not know who is accomplishing something and who is not.

Personally I'd like to start with just the Corps of Engineers. IMO they have failed us economically and environmentally. The only thing this Corps accomplishes is welfare for land developers, welfare for the the descendants of farmers and welfare for barge traffic.

BUT, wouldn't you know it, the descendants of farmers lobbyists and the barge industry lobbyists are going to fight against any cuts to the Corps.

As a longer term more minor problem releasing government employees may lead to a lowering of salaries. A part of capitalism is what competition does to prices. When there is more competition for fewer jobs the cost of labor will go down. Great for companies and 1%ers. Bad for people with jobs and I THINK they economy as a whole. The lowering of wages does not keep me from loving your idea. It makes me want to take it on slowly though.

I don't think you understand how our government works. The fact is that the Corps is one of the best run agencies in the gov't. It is Congress that allocates money and tells the Corps which projects to work on. If you have a problem with what the Corps does, take it up with Congress. The Corps then writes contracts to do the work. Almost all the work is done by private firms, not by the gov't itself. The Corps is how Congress does its' pork.

As for a 5% across the board cut (the military too?), don't expect zero impact to services. In fact, just the opposite will occur as everything will become more wasteful and expensive to do.

 

[rightwinger]

Many Americans including myself believe the Federal Government is overstaffed and overpaid. This is due in part to lack of oversight within government departments which has allowed empire building to bloat the payrolls.

There is also redundancy that could easily be eliminated through consolidation (e.g. the 17 intelligence agencies). Add to that the salaries levels are out of control. I thought GS 15 was the maximum salary level. It is not. There are senior level pay scales that top out at over $200 thousand per year.
Executive Schedule (ES)

• 2017
• 2016
• 2015
• 2014

ES Level Education Level Salary
ES Level 1 Ph.D. $207,800
ES Level 2 Ph.D. $187,000
ES Level 3 Ph.D. $172,100
ES Level 4 Ph.D. $161,900
ES Level 5 Ph.D. $151,700

What are these people doing that merit these salary levels all paid with our tax dollars?

I propose that along with looking at layoffs within each department and consolidation, all departments implement an across the board furlough of 1 day off without pay for every 20 days worked.

That would result in an immediate 5% cut in the Federal payroll with zero impact to services. This IMO is a no-brainer that should be implemented immediately along with other cost cutting measures that includes layoffs and shutting down and consolidation of departments and agencies.

Here is the big problem. As outsiders we do not know who is accomplishing something and who is not.

Personally I'd like to start with just the Corps of Engineers. IMO they have failed us economically and environmentally. The only thing this Corps accomplishes is welfare for land developers, welfare for the the descendants of farmers and welfare for barge traffic.

BUT, wouldn't you know it, the descendants of farmers lobbyists and the barge industry lobbyists are going to fight against any cuts to the Corps.

As a longer term more minor problem releasing government employees may lead to a lowering of salaries. A part of capitalism is what competition does to prices. When there is more competition for fewer jobs the cost of labor will go down. Great for companies and 1%ers. Bad for people with jobs and I THINK they economy as a whole. The lowering of wages does not keep me from loving your idea. It makes me want to take it on slowly though.

I don't think you understand how our government works. The fact is that the Corps is one of the best run agencies in the gov't. It is Congress that allocates money and tells the Corps which projects to work on. If you have a problem with what the Corps does, take it up with Congress. The Corps then writes contracts to do the work. Almost all the work is done by private firms, not by the gov't itself. The Corps is how Congress does its' pork.

As for a 5% across the board cut (the military too?), don't expect zero impact to services. In fact, just the opposite will occur as everything will become more wasteful and expensive to do.

The Army Corps of Engineers has a major impact on our infrastructure. Many state and local governments are incapable of filling the void

 

[task0778]

They remind me of your average CEO who gets 300 times the pay as the people actually doing an ounce of work.

The average CEO does not make 300 times the pay of the average worker. Actually, the last I looked it was only about 4 times as much.

The Clinton campaign did not respond to our inquiry about the statement, but the campaign told the Washington Post Fact Checker that Clinton got the statistic from a study by the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. According to the EPI study, released in June 2014, average compensation for CEOs of the top 350 U.S. firms in 2013 was $15.2 million. That’s 295.9 times higher than the compensation paid to the typical workers at those firms, the study concluded. By comparison, the ratio was 20-to-1 in 1965 and grew to a peak of 383.4-to-1 in 2000. When considering CEO compensation, EPI considered salary and stock options as well as “bonuses, restricted stock grants, and long-term incentive payouts.”
But that study only looked at the CEOs of the top 350 U.S. companies. That represents a fraction of the CEOs in the U.S. In April 2013, Bloomberg looked at the Standard & Poor’s 500 Index of companies and found that “the average multiple of CEO compensation to that of rank-and-file workers is 204, up 20 percent since 2009.”
.
.
In fact, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that there were 246,240 chief executives in the U.S. in May 2014 (a little less than 1 percent of all workers). The median annual wage of those executives was $173,320 (the average wage was $180,700). That’s a little less than five times the median annual wage for all workers, including chief executives, which was $35,540 then. (The ratio is closer to 4-to-1 if comparing the average wage of CEOs to the average wage of all workers, $47,230.)
The BLS data are wages and not total compensation, which can include items such as stock options, bonuses and benefits. So this isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison with the figures from the EPI report, but it is further evidence that when all CEOs are included, the pay disparity is far smaller than that cited by Clinton.
Drilling down, the mean wage for the 21,550 chief executives at “management of companies and enterprises” was $216,100. The ratio for these executives is closer to 4.5-to-1 if considering average pay. (We were not able to exclude chief executive pay from the BLS data on all workers; if we could, the disparity between chief executive pay and that of all other workers would likely be larger.)
In other words, the “average American CEO” earns far less than the average CEO at the biggest 350 firms, and the ratio between the pay of the “average American CEO” and the average American worker is far smaller than the figure cited by Clinton.


Clinton Misuses Stat on CEO Pay - FactCheck.org

 

[rightwinger]

 

[task0778]

Kinda cherrypickin', aren'tcha? What about the other 246k or so CEOs out there? Say you go after those 350 CEOs, do you really think it'll make a damn bit of overall difference?

 

[rightwinger]

Kinda cherrypickin', aren'tcha? What about the other 246k or so CEOs out there? Say you go after those 350 CEOs, do you really think it'll make a damn bit of overall difference?

Depends what you consider a "cherry"

Your statistics are flooded with quasi-CEOs who are responsible for corporations with less than a 100 employees
They carry a CEO title but not CEO responsibilities

 

[Dekster]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

You get $75K a year and get 12 extra days off a year for that $75K a year. It would encourage more people to sign onto the payrolls. If you want to lower costs, you have to lower salaries and not try to do symbolic things that would make no net difference.

 

[rightwinger]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

You get $75K a year and get 12 extra days off a year for that $75K a year. It would encourage more people to sign onto the payrolls. If you want to lower costs, you have to lower salaries and not try to do symbolic things that would make no net difference.

You think someone raising a family ENJOYS unpaid leave?

Those unpaid days cost you $3500 a year

 

[Dekster]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

You get $75K a year and get 12 extra days off a year for that $75K a year. It would encourage more people to sign onto the payrolls. If you want to lower costs, you have to lower salaries and not try to do symbolic things that would make no net difference.

You think someone raising a family ENJOYS unpaid leave?

Those unpaid days cost you $3500 a year

The reduce their number of hours worked per year and lower their salary from the beginning instead of this nonsense.

 

[rightwinger]

So you are a respected accountant or engineer working for the Government. They tell you that you will be sent home one day a month without pay and you must still meet your performance objectives

Why do you want to continue working for the Government?

You get what you pay for

You get $75K a year and get 12 extra days off a year for that $75K a year. It would encourage more people to sign onto the payrolls. If you want to lower costs, you have to lower salaries and not try to do symbolic things that would make no net difference.

You think someone raising a family ENJOYS unpaid leave?

Those unpaid days cost you $3500 a year

The reduce their number of hours worked per year and lower their salary from the beginning instead of this nonsense.

So you end up with a partial workforce and have to schedule furlough days where they least impact the mission