Fearful, Iraq's Sunnis leave mixed neighborhoods

[rdean]

Baghdad and the rest of Iraq are already highly segregated places. Running from bombs, death squads and their own neighbors at the height of violence in 2006 and 2007, Sunnis and Shiites fled neighborhoods that were once mixed.

That violence and the resulting migrations slowed in 2008, but tensions are again swirling as a power struggle worsens between Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and Sunni politicians who have been largely sidelined since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. And many fear increased violence could result.

Hala Abdul-Rahman's 17-year-old son was kidnapped in 2004 by Shiite militiamen while he was walking through the Sunni neighborhood of Dora in southern Baghdad. His father found the boy's body in a field days later.

Fearful, Iraq's Sunnis leave mixed areas - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day'

"I declare this day, the 31st of December, on which the withdrawal of foreign forces from Iraq is complete, as a national day," said Maliki in a televised ceremony, surrounded by security officials in dress uniforms.

"It is Iraq's day. It is a feast for all Iraqis. It is the dawn of a new day in Mesopotamia ... Your country is free."

"All of us for Iraq ... Glory is for the people," the message said. "I congratulate you and our proud Iraqi people on this great day in history ... My love and respect to you and your families. Your brother Nuri al-Maliki."

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day' - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

The biggest disgrace is that he says they are free NOW with America leaving. Not free because Saddam is dead but because we are gone. I can't even think of a bigger disaster for America than this fiasco. Help me on this people. Can any of you?

 

[ekrem]

Baghdad and the rest of Iraq are already highly segregated places. Running from bombs, death squads and their own neighbors at the height of violence in 2006 and 2007, Sunnis and Shiites fled neighborhoods that were once mixed.

That violence and the resulting migrations slowed in 2008, but tensions are again swirling as a power struggle worsens between Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and Sunni politicians who have been largely sidelined since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. And many fear increased violence could result.

Hala Abdul-Rahman's 17-year-old son was kidnapped in 2004 by Shiite militiamen while he was walking through the Sunni neighborhood of Dora in southern Baghdad. His father found the boy's body in a field days later.

Fearful, Iraq's Sunnis leave mixed areas - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day'

"I declare this day, the 31st of December, on which the withdrawal of foreign forces from Iraq is complete, as a national day," said Maliki in a televised ceremony, surrounded by security officials in dress uniforms.

"It is Iraq's day. It is a feast for all Iraqis. It is the dawn of a new day in Mesopotamia ... Your country is free."

"All of us for Iraq ... Glory is for the people," the message said. "I congratulate you and our proud Iraqi people on this great day in history ... My love and respect to you and your families. Your brother Nuri al-Maliki."

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day' - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

The biggest disgrace is that he says they are free NOW with America leaving. Not free because Saddam is dead but because we are gone. I can't even think of a bigger disaster for America than this fiasco. Help me on this people. Can any of you?

In the mixed provinces, where Sunnites are now supposedly fleeing from I suppose Shiites are in majority. As Iraq is sliding ever more into religious segregation, this is a development which can't be stopped. Each Group will try to dominate each province they are the majority in and "push" other Groups out.
This doesn't mean, that Sunnites have nowhere to go.
Sunnites have established organized rule over provinces, that are inhabited in majority by Sunnites (mostly in North and West).

Map shows election results for Iraqqiya of which Turkey is patron according to Iraq's defense minister between 2003-2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/how-iraq-can-define-its-destiny.html?_r=1

South, where Shiites constitute majority will fall into Iran's influence sphere.

 

[JStone]

Sunnis and Shiites Wipe Each Other Off The Face of the Earth



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxAKFlpdcfc]Applause - YouTube[/ame]

 

[rdean]

Baghdad and the rest of Iraq are already highly segregated places. Running from bombs, death squads and their own neighbors at the height of violence in 2006 and 2007, Sunnis and Shiites fled neighborhoods that were once mixed.

That violence and the resulting migrations slowed in 2008, but tensions are again swirling as a power struggle worsens between Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and Sunni politicians who have been largely sidelined since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. And many fear increased violence could result.

Hala Abdul-Rahman's 17-year-old son was kidnapped in 2004 by Shiite militiamen while he was walking through the Sunni neighborhood of Dora in southern Baghdad. His father found the boy's body in a field days later.

Fearful, Iraq's Sunnis leave mixed areas - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day'

"I declare this day, the 31st of December, on which the withdrawal of foreign forces from Iraq is complete, as a national day," said Maliki in a televised ceremony, surrounded by security officials in dress uniforms.

"It is Iraq's day. It is a feast for all Iraqis. It is the dawn of a new day in Mesopotamia ... Your country is free."

"All of us for Iraq ... Glory is for the people," the message said. "I congratulate you and our proud Iraqi people on this great day in history ... My love and respect to you and your families. Your brother Nuri al-Maliki."

Iraq celebrates US exit: 'Dawn of a new day' - World news - Mideast/N. Africa - Conflict in Iraq

The biggest disgrace is that he says they are free NOW with America leaving. Not free because Saddam is dead but because we are gone. I can't even think of a bigger disaster for America than this fiasco. Help me on this people. Can any of you?

In the mixed provinces, where Sunnites are now supposedly fleeing from I suppose Shiites are in majority. As Iraq is sliding ever more into religious segregation, this is a development which can't be stopped. Each Group will try to dominate each province they are the majority in and "push" other Groups out.
This doesn't mean, that Sunnites have nowhere to go.
Sunnites have established organized rule over provinces, that are inhabited in majority by Sunnites (mostly in North and West).

Map shows election results for Iraqqiya of which Turkey is patron according to Iraq's defense minister between 2003-2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/how-iraq-can-define-its-destiny.html?_r=1

South, where Shiites constitute majority will fall into Iran's influence sphere.

Which area belongs to the Christians. Oh wait, that's right. Under Bush and the Republicans, they're gone. Forgot for a moment.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Well, it seems the way you think, Christians should be gone from America as well.

Are you seriosly trying to argue that the Iraqis were better off under a bloodthirsty kleptocratic tyranny? That slavery was a better deal under Hussein than the messy semi free now?


Things aren't good. But Hussein and his ways are none done and gone.

Just because the end of a tyranny does not always result in a positive outcome does not mean we should allow tyranny to continue. Stalin was a bastard, Lenin was worse. Does that mean Russia should have stuck with the Romanovs? Putin is as autocratic as any tsar, but does that mean Russia should go back to the stagnant and terrifying days of the Soviets? Weimar was confused, messy and disorganized. Does that mean the Hohenzollerns were better? France under the Directory was corrupt and venial. Your response to that would be to bring back the Committee of Public Safety or the Burbons.

Iraq will take a while to sort out. It will not be a lovely process. Sectarian violence is part of the religious experience it seems. It happens in Ireland, it happens in XYugoslavia, it happens in Iraq. The bad old days are over. Welcome to the bad new days.

 

[JStone]

Sunni Or Later, Love Is Gonna Get Ya


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3aTwlwAnXc]THE GRASS ROOTS- "SOONER OR LATER" (WITH LYRICS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[rdean]

Well, it seems the way you think, Christians should be gone from America as well.

Are you seriosly trying to argue that the Iraqis were better off under a bloodthirsty kleptocratic tyranny? That slavery was a better deal under Hussein than the messy semi free now?


Things aren't good. But Hussein and his ways are none done and gone.

Just because the end of a tyranny does not always result in a positive outcome does not mean we should allow tyranny to continue. Stalin was a bastard, Lenin was worse. Does that mean Russia should have stuck with the Romanovs? Putin is as autocratic as any tsar, but does that mean Russia should go back to the stagnant and terrifying days of the Soviets? Weimar was confused, messy and disorganized. Does that mean the Hohenzollerns were better? France under the Directory was corrupt and venial. Your response to that would be to bring back the Committee of Public Safety or the Burbons.

Iraq will take a while to sort out. It will not be a lovely process. Sectarian violence is part of the religious experience it seems. It happens in Ireland, it happens in XYugoslavia, it happens in Iraq. The bad old days are over. Welcome to the bad new days.

They seem to think they were better off.

Who am I to tell people how to run their lives? You aren't accusing me of being a conservative are you? Cuz that's what conservatives do.

 

[Ancient lion]

Bravo Bush, son of Bush !!

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Yes, I can see some one running for office in Iraq saying "Do you miss the good old days of Saddam? Well I have my certificate from Bellevue that I am Sociopathic paranoid Schizophrenic with traces of Kleptomania and an Edophis complex. Vote for me and I will bring us back to the good old days of mass murder, shortages of medicine and food, universal conscription, secret police everywhere, and I promise that when my sons exercise their Droit de Segnior, they won't be gentle. Vote for me!" Wonder how many votes he will get.

 

[JStone]

Islime, cult of satan, must be destroyed

 

[rdean]

Yes, I can see some one running for office in Iraq saying "Do you miss the good old days of Saddam? Well I have my certificate from Bellevue that I am Sociopathic paranoid Schizophrenic with traces of Kleptomania and an Edophis complex. Vote for me and I will bring us back to the good old days of mass murder, shortages of medicine and food, universal conscription, secret police everywhere, and I promise that when my sons exercise their Droit de Segnior, they won't be gentle. Vote for me!" Wonder how many votes he will get.

Funny, if you do a google search of:

women had it better under saddam

or

gays had it better under saddam

you get all these notes from Middle Easterners who say that as bad as it was under Saddam, it's way worse now. For instance, under Saddam, women were part of the government and could teach in Universities. Now they wear Burkas and live under Islamic law by constitution. Would you consider living in a Burka a "step up"???????????

don't believe me? You sit in front of the Internet. Go look it up. Find out what they people living there think of what Republicans did to, oops, for them.

 

[JStone]

What do you say to an iraqi muslima with two black eyes? Nothing, you just told her, twice

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I'm talking about the end of a mass murderer and you are whining about dress codes.

As things go forward things will be weird there. Democratic societies don't always vote the way we like here. Heck, they don't always vote the way we like here. A more democratic society is better than any tyranny that has a veneer, a gloss of enlightenment over the evil beneath. You schoolteacher in Saddam's time better be careful about what she says in class. It won't be the PTA who gets mad if she makes an inappropriate remark.

 

[rdean]

I'm talking about the end of a mass murderer and you are whining about dress codes.

As things go forward things will be weird there. Democratic societies don't always vote the way we like here. Heck, they don't always vote the way we like here. A more democratic society is better than any tyranny that has a veneer, a gloss of enlightenment over the evil beneath. You schoolteacher in Saddam's time better be careful about what she says in class. It won't be the PTA who gets mad if she makes an inappropriate remark.

Pitiful, just pitiful.

There is way, way more mass murder going on now. Why do you think everyone is moving? Why did more than a million Christians leave?

And you call living in a burka a "dress code"?

And with all legislation based on Islam, how is it more "democratic"?

Like I said, the women there said they had it better under Saddam. How do you explain that?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

When I was going to school last year I saw them all the time. There is a large muslim community in SW portland and Oregon schools have a huge Muslim population.

Like everything else, wearing the Burqa is a matter of culture. Some women loved US dress, others hated the the over familiarity of US males. It was a nice refuge.



Your concern for Christians in Iraq is regarded with the respect it deserves. Given your hatred for them here.

Iraq used to be very badly seriously screwed up. now it is less screwed up, but it still is not that great a place.


I am in no way defending sectarian violence. But rule by election is better than rule by psycho dictator.

 

[JStone]

Like everything else, wearing the Burqa is a matter of culture.

You call islime a culture? The "culture" that sanctions physical and psychological abuse of women who wear burqas as a symbol of their irrelevance.

 

[rdean]

When I was going to school last year I saw them all the time. There is a large muslim community in SW portland and Oregon schools have a huge Muslim population.

Like everything else, wearing the Burqa is a matter of culture. Some women loved US dress, others hated the the over familiarity of US males. It was a nice refuge.



Your concern for Christians in Iraq is regarded with the respect it deserves. Given your hatred for them here.

Iraq used to be very badly seriously screwed up. now it is less screwed up, but it still is not that great a place.


I am in no way defending sectarian violence. But rule by election is better than rule by psycho dictator.

Iran is a democracy.

 

[rdean]

Like everything else, wearing the Burqa is a matter of culture.

You call islime a culture? The "culture" that sanctions physical and psychological abuse of women who wear burqas as a symbol of their irrelevance.

Someone just called it a "dress code".

 

[JStone]

Sunnis and shiites are children of satan belonging to the same cult of pedophilia islime and must be rendered extinct.

Ibn Ishaq, The Life of Muhammad...
Muhammad married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of six and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams.

 

[ekrem]

Your concern for Christians in Iraq is regarded with the respect it deserves. Given your hatred for them here.

Can you imagine a Christian Foreign Minister in today's Iraq?

He was till USA invaded:
Tariq Aziz - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now they flee.

Since the US invasion in 2003, more than one third of a Christian population that once numbered about 800,000 has fled the country.

War Refugees: Christians On the Run in Iraq - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International