FDR's Progressive Doctrine vs The Union of Soviet Socialist Republic's Constitution

[Dragon]

None of those Democrats can reasonably be called "far left."

Here are some genuine far leftists, so you can make a proper comparison.

About the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA

The Militant - a socialist newspaper - November 14, 2011 -- front page

 

[Navy1960]

Interesting thread, although, I suppose it can be said like was mentioned in another thread that the founding fathers had no clue who Karl Marx was or for that matter Adam Smith. So if the presumption is was FDR, doing something unAmerican, or perhaps unConstitutional in his proposed "second bill of rights" then the answer would be a resounding no. The reason is a very simple one. Any Amendment to the constitution would have required it to be ratified by the states and thus in order to become part of the constitution it would have to have the approval of the citizens of this land, exactly the way the founders had intended. The Supreme Soviet was basically a rubber stamp of the communist party and in so doing would pass along the will of the party by law. Further it did not exist until 1938, and I might point out that the revolution was in 1917. That said, if this "second bill of rights" had been passed it would have been no less constitutional than the first. I might add too that just about all these rights were included in the rewriting of the constitutions of the defeated axis powers at the end of WW2. So does this make FDR progressive, of course it does, does it make him like the USSR, of course not as I pointed out. While perhaps similar in wording, there is a huge difference in who has the real power to have made this a reality and further to enforce it. In my humble opinion, that is what makes this nation so great and it is the vision that those who created crafted and that is the ability for the people here to choose.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

There's no such thing as the Far Left, right?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

None of those Democrats can reasonably be called "far left."

Here are some genuine far leftists, so you can make a proper comparison.

About the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA

The Militant - a socialist newspaper - November 14, 2011 -- front page

Most Liberal Members of Congress - Carrie Mihalcik - NationalJournal.com


they are all on the list of the most liberal members.

 

[JakeStarkey]

This is hard for some far righties: liberal and Dem and lefty are not interchangable terms. They each mean something specific.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Even the former ChiCom are to the right of the Dem Progressive Liberal Leftists

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, Crusader, you are to the left of the chicoms.

 

[Dragon]

None of those Democrats can reasonably be called "far left."

Here are some genuine far leftists, so you can make a proper comparison.

About the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA

The Militant - a socialist newspaper - November 14, 2011 -- front page

Most Liberal Members of Congress - Carrie Mihalcik - NationalJournal.com

they are all on the list of the most liberal members.

Someone HAS to be the most liberal member of Congress. That doesn't make him or her "far left."

The far left -- the real far left -- is not represented in Congress at all.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

None of those Democrats can reasonably be called "far left."

Here are some genuine far leftists, so you can make a proper comparison.

About the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA

The Militant - a socialist newspaper - November 14, 2011 -- front page

Most Liberal Members of Congress - Carrie Mihalcik - NationalJournal.com

they are all on the list of the most liberal members.

Someone HAS to be the most liberal member of Congress. That doesn't make him or her "far left."

The far left -- the real far left -- is not represented in Congress at all.

I can understand that opinion coming from someone who stands on the left of the issues such as yourself.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bernie Sanders is a far lefty in Congress.

 

[Dragon]

I can understand that opinion coming from someone who stands on the left of the issues such as yourself.

There's actually an important objective point to be made here involving the meaning of the terms "far left" and "far right." I could make a similar observation w/r/t the Republicans by looking at militia organizations, the KKK, or other out-there whack-job outfits. By that standard, no Republican is "far right" anymore than any Democrat is "far left." The real far left and far right are both unelectable.

That said, however, we CAN say something about the ideological centers of gravity of both parties on economic issues and on social issues, relative to the U.S. national center as reflected in issue polls.

On social issues, the Democrats range center-left while the Republicans range center-right.

On economic issues, both parties range center-right, with the GOP going further to the right than the Republicans.

The national center on economic issues is to the left of most Democrats -- let alone most Republicans.

For that reason, I strongly disagree with Jake's implication that the voters need to chop off the left and right ends of both parties and triangulate between them. That isn't going to happen because that's not where the voters are coming from. When a progressive platform is believably offered to the voters, as happened in 2008, they vote progressive. When it is not, as in 2010, most of them don't vote, and the right wins by default.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I can understand that opinion coming from someone who stands on the left of the issues such as yourself.

There's actually an important objective point to be made here involving the meaning of the terms "far left" and "far right." I could make a similar observation w/r/t the Republicans by looking at militia organizations, the KKK, or other out-there whack-job outfits. By that standard, no Republican is "far right" anymore than any Democrat is "far left." The real far left and far right are both unelectable.

That said, however, we CAN say something about the ideological centers of gravity of both parties on economic issues and on social issues, relative to the U.S. national center as reflected in issue polls.

On social issues, the Democrats range center-left while the Republicans range center-right.

On economic issues, both parties range center-right, with the GOP going further to the right than the Republicans.

The national center on economic issues is to the left of most Democrats -- let alone most Republicans.

Not so at all, I think. But to you have any polling to satisfy your statement.

 

[Dragon]

Not so at all, I think. But to you have any polling to satisfy your statement.

I've posted some of it before. A majority of the people want a single-payer health care, believe the banks aren't regulated enough, want more taxes on the rich, want wealth distribution similar to Sweden's, over a third prefer socialism to capitalism. You can find all this yourself easily enough with a search.

There are a few Democrats who are in touch with the people on economic issues (the ones you would call "far left," plus Bernie Sanders who is not a Democrat). Most however are to the right of the national center on all of these issues.

The reason why they are, while on social issues the parties are more representative of the people (Democrats center-left, Republicans center-right) is because both parties' pols are corrupted by the influence of campaign donations and lobbyists. Very few Democrats dare go against their campaign funders even when to do so is what the people want. But the donors don't particularly care about social issues, so those are more representative of the voters positions.

 

[JakeStarkey]

If the people wanted what you say they do, they would keep voting until they got the folks they want.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

If the people wanted what you say they do, they would keep voting until they got the folks they want.

Sorta like how the teapartiers did in 2010?

Who knows maybe occupy will bring change to the democrats in the house/senate...that would be cool to get rid of some of the incumbents and put new people with hopefully new and better ideas in there.