FDR was stupid or crazy? 71 years after PH

[whitehall]

FDR was in his 3rd term when the US Navy was crippled in Hawaii. Everyone in the freaking world knew that war with Japan was imminent. The US even provoked the volatile Bushido Japanese with an oil embargo. What did the FDR administration think would happen? The grossly over hyped Military Chief of Staff, George Marshall, who never commanded anything larger than a bunch of CCC civilians actually had the decoded Japanese message in his hand hours before the attack and he never called Pearl Harbor until (conveniently?) the message center went down and he sent a Western Union telegram which arrived the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. The US Army in the Philippines had orders to fall back from Bataan to Corrigador when the do-do hit the propeller but the US had no way to evacuate them or even resupply the Philippine Army and they were forced to surrender by April 1942.

 

[whitehall]

Historians acknowledge that the US was woefully unprepared for WW2 so why the hell did the FDR administration do it's best to get us into WW2? FDR generation "historians" have access to the same information as the rest of us in the freest Country in the world but they have been raised with certain loyalties akin to a cult and that's how they spin the information. Who was COS Marshall? In cultist terms he was the Military genius behind the throne but in real life he was a failed leader and nothing but a political puppet.

 

[Freemason9]

FDR was in his 3rd term when the US Navy was crippled in Hawaii. Everyone in the freaking world knew that war with Japan was imminent. The US even provoked the volatile Bushido Japanese with an oil embargo. What did the FDR administration think would happen? The grossly over hyped Military Chief of Staff, George Marshall, who never commanded anything larger than a bunch of CCC civilians actually had the decoded Japanese message in his hand hours before the attack and he never called Pearl Harbor until (conveniently?) the message center went down and he sent a Western Union telegram which arrived the same time as the Japanese Zeroes. The US Army in the Philippines had orders to fall back from Bataan to Corrigador when the do-do hit the propeller but the US had no way to evacuate them or even resupply the Philippine Army and they were forced to surrender by April 1942.

That was 1941. The location and movement of the Japanese fleet was unknown (there were no satellites). Scout planes had limited range and flexibility (there were no jet engines). The Japanese were already engaged in Asia (attacking the U.S. was a foolish and unpredictable move on their part). It was a Sunday (things that were already slow were moving even more slowly). Communications were iffy (Morse code was still in use). The Japanese were using diplomatic moves and espionage to divert attention.

And, a good portion of the U.S. Pacific fleet was either out of date--or not in port in Hawaii.

And EVEN IF the U.S. knew that the Japanese were likely to attack--what more were they supposed to do?

 

[whitehall]

The old excuse that the "Fleet" was out of date is interesting. Coincidentally the important and crucial Carriers were at sea at the time of the attack and more coincidentally did not run into the Japanese fleet or their scout planes and subs and escort vessels. That was a break wasn't it? All we lost was a couple of aging battleships and about 3,000 men and we got into the real war in Europe in a couple of days. All in all it was a pretty good day for the FDR administration.

 

[KissMy]

That was 1941. The location and movement of the Japanese fleet was unknown (there were no satellites). Scout planes had limited range and flexibility (there were no jet engines). The Japanese were already engaged in Asia (attacking the U.S. was a foolish and unpredictable move on their part). It was a Sunday (things that were already slow were moving even more slowly). Communications were iffy (Morse code was still in use). The Japanese were using diplomatic moves and espionage to divert attention.

And, a good portion of the U.S. Pacific fleet was either out of date--or not in port in Hawaii.

And EVEN IF the U.S. knew that the Japanese were likely to attack--what more were they supposed to do?

Sun Tzu - The Art of War. Distract your enemy. Lead them to think your move will be foolish. Catch your enemy off guard.

Our military leaders should have been prepared for the unexpected.

 

[whitehall]

You have to factor in the "Magic" decodes. Magic didn't give the US an open door to Japanese strategy but it was an incredible tool. COS George Marshall was one of the few US Military leaders who had access to "Magic". He usually showed up for work on time even on weekends especially in late November 1941 when it seemed that the Japanese were up to something big. For some reason Marshall, who was credited by historians with a near photographic memory, could not remember where he was the evening of Dec. 6. The lame reason he gave for arriving late on Dec. 7 even after his staff had been frantically looking for him for hours was that he decided to go horseback riding. There was time enough to call Pearl Harbor but Marshall read and re-read and re-re-read the decoded message that indicated an imminent attack until the Military message center went down. He could have pre-arranged a coded message and picked up a damn phone but he decided to send a Western Union telegram. A thousand Sailors were caught below deck on the Arizona as the telegram arrived at the same time as the Zeros.

 

[Freemason9]

The old excuse that the "Fleet" was out of date is interesting. Coincidentally the important and crucial Carriers were at sea at the time of the attack and more coincidentally did not run into the Japanese fleet or their scout planes and subs and escort vessels. That was a break wasn't it? All we lost was a couple of aging battleships and about 3,000 men and we got into the real war in Europe in a couple of days. All in all it was a pretty good day for the FDR administration.

First, the accusation is that FDR "let" Pearl Harbor happen--and then, you go and accuse him of having foreknowledge because it looked as if we were somewhat prepared.

Make up your mind, even.

Coincidentally the important and crucial Carriers were at sea at the time of the attack and more coincidentally did not run into the Japanese fleet or their scout planes and subs and escort vessels. That was a break wasn't it?

No, it wasn't a "break." It was entirely expected. As I mentioned earlier, reconnaissance in those days was a sketchy affair over a vast ocean with NO satellites, NO jet aircraft, NO over-the-horizon radar, and language differences; in fact, it would have been an amazing bit of luck if we had stumbled across their approaching fleet prior to the attack.