FDR and Pearl Harbor

[CrusaderFrank]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

 

[Navy1960]

Kimmel and Lieutenant General Short through their posthumous advancement on the retired
lists to their highest wartime grades. Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN (Ret.), former Chief of
Naval Operations, sent a letter to the secretary of Defense in July 1991 recommending the
posthumous promotion. In October 1991, 36 prominent Navy Admirals signed a letter to
President Bush urging him to nominate Kimmel and Short to the U.S. Senate for
posthumous promotion.

http://www.pearlharbor911attacks.com/old/docs/RESOLUTION_66_USNA.pdf

I think before you implicate Gen. Short or Adm. Kimmel in any sort of Conspiracy, you may want to read this. Yes, it's true that both Gen. Short and Adm. Kimmel had they been better prepared and averted some of their decisions then the disaster at Pearl Harbor could have been mitigated some, although the burden of those decisions should have not been their alone to bear. If FDR had been in come sort of conspiracy with both Adm. Kimmel or Gen. Short then he would never have reduced them in grade or called for a congressional investigation.

 

[ginscpy]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

Did LBJ really say that? re quote on Thurgood Marshall in bold type

 

[Oddball]

I watched a documentary on the Military Channel about Pearl Harbor a few weeks ago.

Part of it dealt with the American military insiders being incredulous of the reports from General Chennault, commander of the AVG "Flying Tigers", as to the performance characteristics -or even existence- of the A6M Zero.

This was well in advance of 7 Dec '41.

Draw your own conclusions.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

Did LBJ really say that? re quote on Thurgood Marshall in bold type

He absolutely said it.

He called the Civil Rights Bill, the "****** Bill" and when he was President he told he fellow Democrats not to worry about passing Ike's Civil Rights Bill as his own because he'd "have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Kimmel and Lieutenant General Short through their posthumous advancement on the retired
lists to their highest wartime grades. Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN (Ret.), former Chief of
Naval Operations, sent a letter to the secretary of Defense in July 1991 recommending the
posthumous promotion. In October 1991, 36 prominent Navy Admirals signed a letter to
President Bush urging him to nominate Kimmel and Short to the U.S. Senate for
posthumous promotion.

http://www.pearlharbor911attacks.com/old/docs/RESOLUTION_66_USNA.pdf

I think before you implicate Gen. Short or Adm. Kimmel in any sort of Conspiracy, you may want to read this. Yes, it's true that both Gen. Short and Adm. Kimmel had they been better prepared and averted some of their decisions then the disaster at Pearl Harbor could have been mitigated some, although the burden of those decisions should have not been their alone to bear. If FDR had been in come sort of conspiracy with both Adm. Kimmel or Gen. Short then he would never have reduced them in grade or called for a congressional investigation.

They were prepared! That's the whole point! They were prepared until the orders came in on Dec 6th

They were prepared and would have thwarted the attack and had the carriers been sent on patrol TOWARD the invading fleet instead of AWAY from it the Arizona and three other battleships would never have been sunk. FDR, on advise of genuine Communist spies, wanted to present the American people a gory, devastating scene to get us to war with the Russians natural enemy, the Japanese

 

[ginscpy]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

Did LBJ really say that? re quote on Thurgood Marshall in bold type

He absolutely said it.

He called the Civil Rights Bill, the "****** Bill" and when he was President he told he fellow Democrats not to worry about passing Ike's Civil Rights Bill as his own because he'd "have them ******* voting Democrat for the next 200 years"

Thats what I thought.

 

[candycorn]

I think the Interent is the problem a lot of folks have with believing that we were surprised.

When you're not on a war footing, you never think you're going to be attacked. Especially by Japan.

We live in a society where you can know what is on television (if you want to that is) in Sydney. In 1941, you didn't have any such access to information. Having such cultural differences didn't lend itself to intel gathering either.

All in all, the stories are interesting but I don't think there was any conspiracy. It was just one of those dang deals. Those with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight shouldn't judge the men on the ground too harshly.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

someone farted in here.

precisely at 1:36pm today.

 

[Toro]

This conspiracy theory is right up there with "Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and let it happen so we could steal the Arabs oil."

Outstanding.

 

[Oddball]

I think the Interent is the problem a lot of folks have with believing that we were surprised.

When you're not on a war footing, you never think you're going to be attacked. Especially by Japan.

We live in a society where you can know what is on television (if you want to that is) in Sydney. In 1941, you didn't have any such access to information. Having such cultural differences didn't lend itself to intel gathering either.

All in all, the stories are interesting but I don't think there was any conspiracy. It was just one of those dang deals. Those with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight shouldn't judge the men on the ground too harshly.

The U.S. has broken the Japanese code months prior.

The AVG, flying under the nationalist Chinese flag, were a direct provocation.

FDR needed the Japanese to attack so he could intervene in Europe.

 

[Oddball]

This conspiracy theory is right up there with "Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and let it happen so we could steal the Arabs oil."

Outstanding.

Actually, there is far more direct and verifiable evidence to back up this one.

War is the health of the state, baby.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

anyways in all seriousness geting back to the topic here.great thread,yeah there is this book out that documents and proves all this to be true that FDR provoked the japenese into bombing us cutting off their oil to get support for the war and the admiral of the fleet strongly objected to the fleet being put in hawaii because it would be much easier to attack rather than have the fleet stationed in california like he strongly urged and recommeded to Roosevelt.

He was hot headed with FDR about that as well and got into a very heated argument with him about it and FDR fired him for not going along with his plans which is why that admiral in later years rightly so called Roosevelt a traitor to his country.There is a great book out that documents all this and is based on over 10,000 previously classified documents and interviews with navel officers that prove all this that Crusader Frank talks about to be true called DAY OF DECEIT.great book that everybody here should read.If they would,they would understand that Bush did the same thing that FDR did,they both ignored multiple warnings that they were endangering their country.Both presidents committed treason that they should have been prosected for.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

This conspiracy theory is right up there with "Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and let it happen so we could steal the Arabs oil."

Outstanding.

Actually, there is far more direct and verifiable evidence to back up this one.

War is the health of the state, baby.

forget it,your wasting your breath with this troll.You would have better luck talking to a wall.This troll is a paid agent sent here to try and derail truth discussions such as 9/11,the kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbour.Your just giving him the attention he seeks by replying to him.

Best thing to do is put him on ignore.He seeks attention so badly he will quote you and address you as though you are reading his ramblings despite the many times you tell him you have him on ignore.pretty pathetic really.

 

[Oddball]

Don't need any help, Bubba.

 

[whitehall]

It's good to deal with FDR's blunders even though his legacy has been protected by the liberal media for almost a hundred years. How much evidence do you need to admit that FDR wanted the US to be attacked by Japan so the US would get into the "real war" in Europe? His own words? I doubt if FDR set up the Pearl Harbor attack. He was a slick politician but he just wasn't that smart. I think FDR and the entire government suffered from terminal bigotry with respect to the Japanese. There are several examples of profound ignorance regarding the Japanese including the administration's opinion that they were poor in math skills to build a ship that would float and too nearsighted to fly a plane. In other words the FDR administration thought the Japanese would be a pushover and a minor inconvenience on the road to war with Germany.

 

[westwall]

By now you are all aware that FDR had genuine Soviet spies in high offices and as key advisers. Part of their mission was to turn the USA and Japan on a collision course toward war.

The last time the Japanese and the Russian crossed swords in 1905, the Japanese mopped the floor up with the Rooskies ((Russo-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) because you Progressives never believe anything happened unless its in Wiki) and the Soviet spies advising FDR got him to start a real life shooting war with Russia's natural and deadly enemy, the Japanese. I give the Soviets an enormous amount of credit for their geo-political victory here, it cannot be underestimated and should be applauded. They played FDR for a total patsy.

By now you also know that FDR provoked and goaded and all but invited the Japanese to attack us and in fact, since we had cracked the Japanese codes, we were well aware the invasion fleet was inbound to Pearl Harbor on Dec 7.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Clearly, Gen Short must have gotten an order, maybe from FDR personally, to leave Pearl Harbor vulnerable and insure maximum damage to the fleet (but not the carriers) at Pearl.

While I agree with you about FDR's cabinet (he was a well known fan of Uncle Joe you know) I ascribe General Shorts actions to sheer incompetence. I do believe that FDR knew what was coming. There is ample circumstantial evidence to show that.

However, the generals of that era were pretty damned stupid. Look at what Macarthur did AFTER the Pearl Harbor attacks had occured. He did the EXACT SAME THING! Lined his aircraft up wingtip to wingtip because he and his staff felt the Japanese were incompetent monkeys and couldn't possibly reach them from their bases in Formosa.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[Toro]

This conspiracy theory is right up there with "Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and let it happen so we could steal the Arabs oil."

Outstanding.

Actually, there is far more direct and verifiable evidence to back up this one.

War is the health of the state, baby.

No there's not.

It's the exact same lame argument the twoofers make.

 

[Toro]

This conspiracy theory is right up there with "Bush knew 9/11 was going to happen, and let it happen so we could steal the Arabs oil."

Outstanding.

Actually, there is far more direct and verifiable evidence to back up this one.

War is the health of the state, baby.

forget it,your wasting your breath with this troll.You would have better luck talking to a wall.This troll is a paid agent sent here to try and derail truth discussions such as 9/11,the kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbour.Your just giving him the attention he seeks by replying to him.

Best thing to do is put him on ignore.He seeks attention so badly he will quote you and address you as though you are reading his ramblings despite the many times you tell him you have him on ignore.pretty pathetic really.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Look who's backing you, Frank!

It's 9/11 inside nutjob!

rofl

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I think the Interent is the problem a lot of folks have with believing that we were surprised.

When you're not on a war footing, you never think you're going to be attacked. Especially by Japan.

We live in a society where you can know what is on television (if you want to that is) in Sydney. In 1941, you didn't have any such access to information. Having such cultural differences didn't lend itself to intel gathering either.

All in all, the stories are interesting but I don't think there was any conspiracy. It was just one of those dang deals. Those with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight shouldn't judge the men on the ground too harshly.

On Nov 27, 1941 George Marshall ordered a "War warning" and directed the base at Pearl to "undertake reconnaissance" a sensible precaution. However, suddenly, on December 6 Gen Short ordered the fighter to "Stand down" gave pilots THAT VERY Weekend off, ordered the mobile AA guns BACK TO BARRACKS, dispersed the aircraft from the protective bunkers and stacked them up on the runway (the only thing he didn't do was spray them with lighter fluid and leave matches nearby) insuring maximum damage would be inflicted on the ships at Pearl, but not the carriers, which were also sent out on patrol far away from the inbound Japanese strike force.

Did you gloss over that part of the OP?