FDR: Abandon Italy to Anoint Russia

PoliticalChic

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1. "The irony of it all is that the Soviet empire is largely one of our own creation."
General Albert C. Wedemeyer, (one of the war's senior strategists,)




How so?

2. Franklin Roosevelt was in thrall of the far more brilliant, Joseph Stalin. The aims of the Roosevelt administration included turning over at least half of the continent of Europe to Stalin's tender mercies at the war's end.

Yeah....that's a fact.




3. Pivotal to this endeavor was the insistence that the Allied attack on Fortress Europa had to be via Normandy, the northwestern edge of the continent, and not the more logical southern vantage, Italy.

The Allies owned Italy: what sense to leave the continent to re-invade the continent?

a. In Kerry-like terms, General Eisenhower 'was for the Italy invasion before he voted against it.'
Of course, the received an extra star for changing his view.





4. Let's go back to that time: many in government and many analysts saw the communist control of the Roosevelt administration, and warned of dire outcomes, outcomes that have come to pass. The hope was that the Allies would defeat Germany and take control of post-war Europe.
The Left needed central Europe left to the Red Army, and, therefore beat the drum for a Normandy invasion.


5. Get a sense of the time from the NYTimes...

" ALLIED FRONT IN ITALY NOT SO FAR FROM REICH; In Other Words, It Is Just as Close to Germany From Any Peninsula Point As It Is From Dnieper THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE"
By EDWIN L. JAMES
September 12, 1943
Pay Articles from September 1943 Part 4 - Site Map - The New York Times

6. The point made by the Times' Russia correspondent was that the distance from the toe of Italy to Germany's southern border was about the same as from Russia's western edge, the Dnieper River, and Germany's eastern border.

So, if the Allies proceeded from Italy, "the British and Americans are in a position to get to Germany just as rapidly as are the Russians." And, he opined, there was no longer reason for concern among "those addicted especially to worry about Moscow government's role in post war affairs..." and that "Moscow would gain control of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and France."

You see, the cognoscenti understood the threat of a growing communism.

So....no danger.....unless, of course, Roosevelt and Stalin abandoned Italy and invaded via northwestern France.....




7. Poor Edwin James.....he continues: "The point is that the political implications of the Russians having the only army ready to march into a deflated Nazi Reich no longer exist. So far as geographical considerations go, Americans, British, and Russians all have a chance."
Ibid.


If he read that, Stalin would have laughed so hard, he would have burst a коронарной артерии!
 
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8. BTW....Eisenhower halted US forces before they could liberate Berlin, Prague, and Vienna.
Who told him to do that?.....

.And why do you suppose?


Do the names Stalin, Roosevelt, Harry Hopkins, and George Marshall come to mind?
 
Who can fathom the thinking of Franklin Roosevelt? He did everything he could to prop up the most homicidal regime in history.



He could have done as advisers told him to, and allowed Hitler and Stalin to beat each other senseless....and then supported democracy in the Soviet Union.
Instead, he was determined to handed half of Europe to the communist tyrant.



9. Evidence that the Roosevelt administration had every intention of handing over Europe to Stalin can be seen in a document which Stalin spy and Roosevelt live-in adviser, Harry Hopkins, took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,"....

"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



BTW....that is the reason that Stalin/Harry Hopkins had no intention of allowing Germany to surrender while they still had industrial/military capacity.

They would not allow any potential resistance to Stalin after the war.
 
Who can fathom the thinking of Franklin Roosevelt? He did everything he could to prop up the most homicidal regime in history.



He could have done as advisers told him to, and allowed Hitler and Stalin to beat each other senseless....and then supported democracy in the Soviet Union.
Instead, he was determined to handed half of Europe to the communist tyrant.



9. Evidence that the Roosevelt administration had every intention of handing over Europe to Stalin can be seen in a document which Stalin spy and Roosevelt live-in adviser, Harry Hopkins, took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,"....

"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



BTW....that is the reason that Stalin/Harry Hopkins had no intention of allowing Germany to surrender while they still had industrial/military capacity.

They would not allow any potential resistance to Stalin after the war.

Just one hard-core Socialist scratching the back of another hard-core Socialist. While Stalin was rapidly burning Russia into Communist submission FDR chose to take the "slow boil" route. And here we are with one of his disciples (Obama) still following the marching orders.
 
Who can fathom the thinking of Franklin Roosevelt? He did everything he could to prop up the most homicidal regime in history.



He could have done as advisers told him to, and allowed Hitler and Stalin to beat each other senseless....and then supported democracy in the Soviet Union.
Instead, he was determined to handed half of Europe to the communist tyrant.



9. Evidence that the Roosevelt administration had every intention of handing over Europe to Stalin can be seen in a document which Stalin spy and Roosevelt live-in adviser, Harry Hopkins, took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,"....

"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



BTW....that is the reason that Stalin/Harry Hopkins had no intention of allowing Germany to surrender while they still had industrial/military capacity.

They would not allow any potential resistance to Stalin after the war.

Just one hard-core Socialist scratching the back of another hard-core Socialist. While Stalin was rapidly burning Russia into Communist submission FDR chose to take the "slow boil" route. And here we are with one of his disciples (Obama) still following the marching orders.




"Socialist" is far too kind.
 
Who can fathom the thinking of Franklin Roosevelt? He did everything he could to prop up the most homicidal regime in history.



He could have done as advisers told him to, and allowed Hitler and Stalin to beat each other senseless....and then supported democracy in the Soviet Union.
Instead, he was determined to handed half of Europe to the communist tyrant.



9. Evidence that the Roosevelt administration had every intention of handing over Europe to Stalin can be seen in a document which Stalin spy and Roosevelt live-in adviser, Harry Hopkins, took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Robert Sherwood's book, "Roosevelt and Hopkins: An Intimate History,"....

"Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



BTW....that is the reason that Stalin/Harry Hopkins had no intention of allowing Germany to surrender while they still had industrial/military capacity.

They would not allow any potential resistance to Stalin after the war.

Just one hard-core Socialist scratching the back of another hard-core Socialist. While Stalin was rapidly burning Russia into Communist submission FDR chose to take the "slow boil" route. And here we are with one of his disciples (Obama) still following the marching orders.




"Socialist" is far too kind.

I know ... I'm just a nice guy. :D
 
10. To continue with real history- not the Rooseveltian hagiography that passes for history......


Remember that as far back as 1933, Roosevelt knew about the genocides, massacres, blood purges that were the hallmark of the Soviet regime.




So....what did he do?
He went right ahead and recognized the evil empire, in 1933, and then did everything he could to support Stalin throughout the war.

His plan was to reward Stalin by turning over most of Europe to him.

What???? Yup.....

The Edwin James article in the OP, published in the NYTimes, was dated September 12, 1943.
Can we know FDR's intentions re: Soviet domination of Europe post-war, prior to that?




Sure can!

We know for a documented fact that Roosevelt regarded Soviet conquest in Europe as a fait accompli.

On September 3, 1943, Cardinal Spellman spent 90 minutes with Roosevelt, and wrote up a memorandum in which he quoted Roosevelt as saying exactly that!
Spellman quoted FDR: "The European people will simply have to endure the Russian domination in the hope that in ten or twenty years they will be able to live well with the Russians."
"The Cardinal Spellman Story," by Robert I. Gannon, p.224





Now get this:
a. "Finland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Bessarabia, the eastern half of Poland, Czecho-Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Croatia, Germany – FDR conceded all to Communist régimes or Soviet protection!
What is most weird and most disturbing about Roosevelt’s obdurate fatalism is that the entire Red Army at this time was still inside the USSR."
West, "American Betrayal," p.266


Get that? Roosevelt had planned to hand millions of human beings to communist oppression before the Soviets had even entered those nations!!
 
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I don't think PC will ever get over her rage at FDR for stomping the Nazis instead of allying with them.



If you weren't such a proven imbecile I'd challenge you to confront any of the sourced and linked data that I have provided.



But even the less than imbecilic Roosevelt supporters know better than to doubt anything Iv'e posted.


Now, I'm going to go stand outside...so, if anyone asks, you just tell 'em I'm outstanding.
 
I don't think PC will ever get over her rage at FDR for stomping the Nazis instead of allying with them.
Agreed. She does seem put out that America won the war. Lest we forget, the right back then both admired and in many cases supported the Nazis. Some things never change.
 
1. "The irony of it all is that the Soviet empire is largely one of our own creation."
General Albert C. Wedemeyer, (one of the war's senior strategists,)




How so?

2. Franklin Roosevelt was in thrall of the far more brilliant, Joseph Stalin. The aims of the Roosevelt administration included turning over at least half of the continent of Europe to Stalin's tender mercies at the war's end.


7. Poor Edwin James.....he continues: "The point is that the political implications of the Russians having the only army ready to march into a deflated Nazi Reich no longer exist. So far as geographical considerations go, Americans, British, and Russians all have a chance."
Ibid.


If he read that, Stalin would have laughed so hard, he would have burst a коронарной артерии!


Who was FDR right hand man? It was Harry Hopkins, confirmed later as a Communist Party Member. Our history books are better than Stalin's, but headed in Stalin's direction (censorship)
 
I don't think PC will ever get over her rage at FDR for stomping the Nazis instead of allying with them.
Agreed. She does seem put out that America won the war. Lest we forget, the right back then both admired and in many cases supported the Nazis. Some things never change.



Congrats!


You just worked yourself into the imbecile class as well!


Now....if you had any education and or knowledge about the events mentioned in the thread....you would certainly reveal same....

...rather than deal in lies and slander.



Or....you may simply remain the renewable energy source for hot air balloons.
 
1. "The irony of it all is that the Soviet empire is largely one of our own creation."
General Albert C. Wedemeyer, (one of the war's senior strategists,)




How so?

2. Franklin Roosevelt was in thrall of the far more brilliant, Joseph Stalin. The aims of the Roosevelt administration included turning over at least half of the continent of Europe to Stalin's tender mercies at the war's end.


7. Poor Edwin James.....he continues: "The point is that the political implications of the Russians having the only army ready to march into a deflated Nazi Reich no longer exist. So far as geographical considerations go, Americans, British, and Russians all have a chance."
Ibid.


If he read that, Stalin would have laughed so hard, he would have burst a коронарной артерии!


Who was FDR right hand man? It was Harry Hopkins, confirmed later as a Communist Party Member. Our history books are better than Stalin's, but headed in Stalin's direction (censorship)




Absolutely true.


Victor Kravchenko, one of the first and most influential Soviet defectors to the United States, who had written "I Chose Freedom," a searing account of life under Stalin.

In it he spoke of the 'education' that Russians had to endure....and similar indoctrination can be seen in our schools.


1. "Shamelessly, without so much as an explanation, it revised half a century of Russian history. I don't mean simply that it falsified some facts or gave a new interpretation of events. I mean that it deliberately stood history on its head, expunging events and inventing facts. It twisted the recent past--a past still fresh in millions of memories--into new and bizarre shapes, to conform with the version of affairs presented by the blood-purge trials and the accompanying propaganda...

2. The roles of leading historical figures were perverted or altogether erased.... More than that, living witnesses, as far as possible, were removed. The directing staff of the Institute of Marx, Engels and Lenin in Moscow, repository of ideological truth, were removed and the more important people among them imprisoned or shot.

3. The new history" became possible. To brand the shame more deeply on our minds, "study" of the new version was made obligatory for all responsible Party people. History classes met nearly every night in this period and lecturers from Sverdlovsk came to our town to help hammer home the lies, while most of us fumed inwardly. Whatever human dignity remained in our character was humiliated.

4. But even the most gigantic lie, by dint of infinite repetition, takes root; Stalin knew this before Hitler discovered it. As I looked on I could see terrible falsehoods, at first accepted under pressure, become established as unquestioned "facts," particularly among younger people without personal experience to the contrary to bother them." Text collection



And you can see the results in several of the comments to this thread.
They don't debate....they slander.
 
I don't think PC will ever get over her rage at FDR for stomping the Nazis instead of allying with them.

Are you saying that allying with Stalin was any better?



If there is any difference between Hitler and Stalin, it was that Stalin was far worse....and far more successful.


The uninitiated don't realize the kinship between the two.


A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...."
NYTimes, November 27, 1925

The article itself can be seen here, at about the 17 minute mark:
- The Soviet Story (Docu) - Full Movie / English - LivingScoop
- The Soviet Story (Docu) - Full Movie / English - LivingScoop
 
11. It would be a mistake to omit mention of the essential cornerstone of Marxism, which is materialism, in connection with the Roosevelt-Harry Hopkins- Stalin view of "realpolitik" (German for "politics of reality"),.... "foreign politics based on practical concerns rather than theory or ethics."


Do we not wish ethics to be at least one consideration in the way our nation acts?



If the world is all about materialism, and nothing else, then human beings are reduced to that level- they are simply 'things', like cars, or coins.
Hence, the Marxist view that 'one can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.....'
Human slaughter, then, is simply the equivalent of breaking a few eggs.



In the last century, Marxism, communism, every permutation of same, has been responsible for the slaughter of over 100 million human beings.....an awful toll of broken eggs.






12. Along came President Roosevelt, with the typical progressive blind eye to human suffering and slaughter. .. Joseph Stalin wanted to ensure that after the war he didn't have to contend with anti-communists in Europe. Toward that end, he demanded that the Allies give him any who had tried to escape his tyrannical rule.

Get that? Turn over all the enemies of Stalin to his 'tender mercies.'



a. When the Allies succumbed to Stalin's demands at Yalta, all those refugees, from generals of armies to intellectuals, Cossacks, kulaks, teachers, peasants, and workers, would be repatriated to Stalin's gulags and firing squads.



But, then.....Franklin Roosevelt had intended that all along.
 
I don't think PC will ever get over her rage at FDR for stomping the Nazis instead of allying with them.

Are you saying that allying with Stalin was any better?



If there is any difference between Hitler and Stalin, it was that Stalin was far worse....and far more successful.


The uninitiated don't realize the kinship between the two.


A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...."
NYTimes, November 27, 1925

The article itself can be seen here, at about the 17 minute mark:
- The Soviet Story (Docu) - Full Movie / English - LivingScoop
- The Soviet Story (Docu) - Full Movie / English - LivingScoop

The saddest thing about all of this is that this history is not a mystery, but for the fact of the insidious subversion of popular culture and a corrupt, brain-dead education system.
 
1. "The irony of it all is that the Soviet empire is largely one of our own creation."
General Albert C. Wedemeyer, (one of the war's senior strategists,)




How so?

2. Franklin Roosevelt was in thrall of the far more brilliant, Joseph Stalin. The aims of the Roosevelt administration included turning over at least half of the continent of Europe to Stalin's tender mercies at the war's end.

Yeah....that's a fact.




3. Pivotal to this endeavor was the insistence that the Allied attack on Fortress Europa had to be via Normandy, the northwestern edge of the continent, and not the more logical southern vantage, Italy.

The Allies owned Italy: what sense to leave the continent to re-invade the continent?

a. In Kerry-like terms, General Eisenhower 'was for the Italy invasion before he voted against it.'
Of course, the received an extra star for changing his view.





4. Let's go back to that time: many in government and many analysts saw the communist control of the Roosevelt administration, and warned of dire outcomes, outcomes that have come to pass. The hope was that the Allies would defeat Germany and take control of post-war Europe.
The Left needed central Europe left to the Red Army, and, therefore beat the drum for a Normandy invasion.


5. Get a sense of the time from the NYTimes...

" ALLIED FRONT IN ITALY NOT SO FAR FROM REICH; In Other Words, It Is Just as Close to Germany From Any Peninsula Point As It Is From Dnieper THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE"
By EDWIN L. JAMES
September 12, 1943
Pay Articles from September 1943 Part 4 - Site Map - The New York Times

6. The point made by the Times' Russia correspondent was that the distance from the toe of Italy to Germany's southern border was about the same as from Russia's western edge, the Dnieper River, and Germany's eastern border.

So, if the Allies proceeded from Italy, "the British and Americans are in a position to get to Germany just as rapidly as are the Russians." And, he opined, there was no longer reason for concern among "those addicted especially to worry about Moscow government's role in post war affairs..." and that "Moscow would gain control of Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and France."

You see, the cognoscenti understood the threat of a growing communism.

So....no danger.....unless, of course, Roosevelt and Stalin abandoned Italy and invaded via northwestern France.....


7. Poor Edwin James.....he continues: "The point is that the political implications of the Russians having the only army ready to march into a deflated Nazi Reich no longer exist. So far as geographical considerations go, Americans, British, and Russians all have a chance."
Ibid.


If he read that, Stalin would have laughed so hard, he would have burst a коронарной артерии!

I'm glad you posted this. I wrote in a recent post that FDR was not a hardcore Marxist/communist, though ol' Eleanor was to be sure. The fact of matter is that I've never been able to reconcile that view with the facts of the disastrous Yalta Agreement, among other things. One thing's for sure, FDR's administration was riddle with Marxist subversives, true thugs, even the OSS under this administration was riddled with them.
 
The logical place for a break in to Fortress Europe was NW Europe not Italy.

PC simply misdefines words, terms, and concepts, then weaves a fantasy.
 
The logical place for a break in to Fortress Europe was NW Europe not Italy.

PC simply misdefines words, terms, and concepts, then weaves a fantasy.






*Sneeze* Oh, excuse me! I'm allergic to stupidity.




Did you imagine someone called for a moron to enter, stage left?

Sorry....no call for you.

Ply your trade elsewhere, dunce.
 

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