FBI hates American Muslims?

[aamirah]

Some of the South Californian mosques and its parishioners became FBI’s surveillance objects and that what is really bothers American Muslim community. I came to the US long before 9/11 and I was really shocked when I saw what happened and every day I pray for the lost in this attack. But FBI and Mueller started illegal surveillance after us! They talk about America’s and its people’s security, but they are simply violating our rights with regard to our nationality and confession. Instead of tracking down the real terrorists they are looking for a sitting duck, spending money of taxpayers and making a window dressing for the public. Does the Agency facing lack of qualified personnel and financing and can’t do some real job to protect all of us? If so, not only American Muslims are in trouble...

 

[Colin]

Radicalisation of young moslems often takes place in the mosques. If moslems gave up the radicals among them, security services would not have to conduct surveillance ops. If you want full acceptance stop protecting the bad apples!

 

[Mad Scientist]

How many different web boards did you paste this on aamirah?

 

[Kalam]

Some of the South Californian mosques and its parishioners became FBI’s surveillance objects and that what is really bothers American Muslim community. I came to the US long before 9/11 and I was really shocked when I saw what happened and every day I pray for the lost in this attack. But FBI and Mueller started illegal surveillance after us! They talk about America’s and its people’s security, but they are simply violating our rights with regard to our nationality and confession. Instead of tracking down the real terrorists they are looking for a sitting duck, spending money of taxpayers and making a window dressing for the public. Does the Agency facing lack of qualified personnel and financing and can’t do some real job to protect all of us? If so, not only American Muslims are in trouble...

Salaamu 'alayki wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. It's important to understand how these people operate, ukhti. They seem to be less interested in taking proactive measures to combat extremist violence than they are in creating an illusion of competence by fighting "terrorism" that they themselves create. Look at the case of Br. Sami Samir Hassoun:

CHICAGO -- A man arrested for allegedly placing a backpack he thought contained a bomb near Chicago's Wrigley Field got the fake explosive from an FBI undercover agent, authorities say -- a tactic that has been used in other U.S. terrorism cases in recent years.

....

Authorities say the informant befriended Hassoun over the course of a year, conducting conversations in Arabic, which were taped and shared with the FBI. Hassoun waffled greatly on his plans, authorities said.

Initially, he didn't want to cause violence, suggesting setting off smoking devices in downtown locations near City Hall, authorities said.

"No killing. There is no killing," he told the informant, according to the complaint.

But his plans became more grand, as he believed bigger acts would command public attention and embarrass the mayor, according to the complaint.

FBI Says It Supplied Fake Bomb in Chicago Plot - FoxNews.com

So the FBI convinces a Muslim to kill people against his own principles, gives him what he believes are explosives, and then arrests him so they can announce another hollow victory in "the war on terrorism." They're probably keeping our masajid under surveillance in order to find more young brothers to turn into criminals. The saddest part is that we probably wouldn't be better off in any other country. All we can do is love Allah (SWT) and our brothers and sisters, make du'a, and hope for the best.

 

[Kalam]

Radicalisation of young moslems often takes place in the mosques.

Over here it seems to happen through conversations with FBI informants.

 

[High_Gravity]

Some of the South Californian mosques and its parishioners became FBI’s surveillance objects and that what is really bothers American Muslim community. I came to the US long before 9/11 and I was really shocked when I saw what happened and every day I pray for the lost in this attack. But FBI and Mueller started illegal surveillance after us! They talk about America’s and its people’s security, but they are simply violating our rights with regard to our nationality and confession. Instead of tracking down the real terrorists they are looking for a sitting duck, spending money of taxpayers and making a window dressing for the public. Does the Agency facing lack of qualified personnel and financing and can’t do some real job to protect all of us? If so, not only American Muslims are in trouble...

Salaamu 'alayki wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu. It's important to understand how these people operate, ukhti. They seem to be less interested in taking proactive measures to combat extremist violence than they are in creating an illusion of competence by fighting "terrorism" that they themselves create. Look at the case of Br. Sami Samir Hassoun:

CHICAGO -- A man arrested for allegedly placing a backpack he thought contained a bomb near Chicago's Wrigley Field got the fake explosive from an FBI undercover agent, authorities say -- a tactic that has been used in other U.S. terrorism cases in recent years.

....

Authorities say the informant befriended Hassoun over the course of a year, conducting conversations in Arabic, which were taped and shared with the FBI. Hassoun waffled greatly on his plans, authorities said.

Initially, he didn't want to cause violence, suggesting setting off smoking devices in downtown locations near City Hall, authorities said.

"No killing. There is no killing," he told the informant, according to the complaint.

But his plans became more grand, as he believed bigger acts would command public attention and embarrass the mayor, according to the complaint.

FBI Says It Supplied Fake Bomb in Chicago Plot - FoxNews.com

So the FBI convinces a Muslim to kill people against his own principles, gives him what he believes are explosives, and then arrests him so they can announce another hollow victory in "the war on terrorism." They're probably keeping our masajid under surveillance in order to find more young brothers to turn into criminals. The saddest part is that we probably wouldn't be better off in any other country. All we can do is love Allah (SWT) and our brothers and sisters, make du'a, and hope for the best.

Thats bullshit Kalam, did the FBI informant put a gun to the persons head and make them get the fake explosives? why didnt the guy just tell the FBI informant to fuck off and thats it? No one is turning these young men into terrorists, they were already on their way if they went ahead and tried to do this. Stop making excuses, no one is making these Muslim men do anything. They are not children, if they are really that simple minded to let an FBI informant talk them into getting explosives I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Kalam]

Thats bullshit Kalam, did the FBI informant put a gun to the persons head and make them get the fake explosives? why didnt the guy just tell the FBI informant to fuck off and thats it? No one is turning these young men into terrorists, they were already on their way if they went ahead and tried to do this. Stop making excuses, no one is making these Muslim men do anything. They are not children, if they are really that simple minded to let an FBI informant talk them into getting explosives I don't know what to tell you.

Do you think the informant simply approached him and said, "Hey bro, want to massacre some filthy American infidels?" The article mentions how the man befriended Hassoun and had 'conversations' with him in Arabic to win over his trust before giving him the fake explosives. Am I to believe that these conversations played no role in Hassoun's complete reversal of his position on killing people? It's obvious what the FBI was doing here.

I'm not suggesting that Hassoun was some sort of innocent saint or that the FBI held a gun to his head; he made a decision and it was an extremely stupid one. I do believe that they convinced him to commit a crime and provided the means for him to do so. It's like when cops on those stupid TV shows dress up as prostitutes or drug dealers and then arrest people who express interest in their services -- it does nothing to address the actual crimes. The FBI has the same degree of responsibility in this case that certain 'terrorist' groups have when they indoctrinate their followers and convince them to blow themselves up.

 

[High_Gravity]

Thats bullshit Kalam, did the FBI informant put a gun to the persons head and make them get the fake explosives? why didnt the guy just tell the FBI informant to fuck off and thats it? No one is turning these young men into terrorists, they were already on their way if they went ahead and tried to do this. Stop making excuses, no one is making these Muslim men do anything. They are not children, if they are really that simple minded to let an FBI informant talk them into getting explosives I don't know what to tell you.

Do you think the informant simply approached him and said, "Hey bro, want to massacre some filthy American infidels?" The article mentions how the man befriended Hassoun and had 'conversations' with him in Arabic to win over his trust before giving him the fake explosives. Am I to believe that these conversations played no role in Hassoun's complete reversal of his position on killing people? It's obvious what the FBI was doing here.

I'm not suggesting that Hassoun was some sort of innocent saint or that the FBI held a gun to his head; he made a decision and it was an extremely stupid one. I do believe that they convinced him to commit a crime and provided the means for him to do so. It's like when cops on those stupid TV shows dress up as prostitutes or drug dealers and then arrest people who express interest in their services -- it does nothing to address the actual crimes. The FBI has the same degree of responsibility in this case that certain 'terrorist' groups have when they indoctrinate their followers and convince them to blow themselves up.

The FBI and the Police do similar things to Blacks and Hispanics in the inner cities all the time, pretend to be drug suppliers and when they find someone who wants to make a big purchase, they bust him. Doesn't matter if the drugs were real or not, the intent was there to buy them and distribute. Similar situation with this young man, the intent was there. You expect Muslims to get a pass, but all the Blacks and Hispanics that get duped should be locked up? like I said, these men are not children, if a Muslim gets approached about terrorism, they should tell the informant or whoever it is to fuck off and contact the authorities.

 

[Kalam]

The FBI and the Police do similar things to Blacks and Hispanics in the inner cities all the time, pretend to be drug suppliers and when they find someone who wants to make a big purchase, they bust him. Doesn't matter if the drugs were real or not, the intent was there to buy them and distribute. Similar situation with this young man, the intent was there. You expect Muslims to get a pass, but all the Blacks and Hispanics that get duped should be locked up?

The government shouldn't be in the business of creating crimes and criminals in the first place. If drugs are a problem, efforts should be focused on improving anti-drug education and working to bring down drug-related organized crime -- not dressing up and walking around with baggies of oregano. This same basic approach can be applied to prostitution, terrorism, and most other crimes.

FWIW, a person can be black, hispanic, and a Muslim. It doesn't matter who the victims of these schemes are. They're pointless and dishonest regardless of who ends up getting thrown in jail.

like I said, these men are not children, if a Muslim gets approached about terrorism, they should tell the informant or whoever it is to fuck off and contact the authorities.

And again, I'm sure the informant made sure that they were good 'friends' before he began to bring up the topic of terrorism. And I doubt that he did so bluntly. These people have been in the brainwashing business since long before you and I were born.

 

[High_Gravity]

The FBI and the Police do similar things to Blacks and Hispanics in the inner cities all the time, pretend to be drug suppliers and when they find someone who wants to make a big purchase, they bust him. Doesn't matter if the drugs were real or not, the intent was there to buy them and distribute. Similar situation with this young man, the intent was there. You expect Muslims to get a pass, but all the Blacks and Hispanics that get duped should be locked up?

The government shouldn't be in the business of creating crimes and criminals in the first place. If drugs are a problem, efforts should be focused on improving anti-drug education and working to bring down drug-related organized crime -- not dressing up and walking around with baggies of oregano. This same basic approach can be applied to prostitution, terrorism, and most other crimes.

FWIW, a person can be black, hispanic, and a Muslim. It doesn't matter who the victims of these schemes are. They're pointless and dishonest regardless of who ends up getting thrown in jail.

like I said, these men are not children, if a Muslim gets approached about terrorism, they should tell the informant or whoever it is to fuck off and contact the authorities.

And again, I'm sure the informant made sure that they were good 'friends' before he began to bring up the topic of terrorism. And I doubt that he did so bluntly. These people have been in the brainwashing business since long before you and I were born.

The intent worries me, what if instead of an informant this was an actual terrorist who wanted to do harm? this is why they do operations like this in the first place. Whether the informant was a good friend to him made no difference, if my best friend told me he needed my help to kill someone or blow up a building, I would tell him to fuck off and contact the authorities. People are not sheep, this man is an adult and made his own decision, now he must face the consequences. Maybe Muslims needs to start saying no to terrorism in general, whether its to informant or actual terrorists.

 

[Kalam]

The intent worries me, what if instead of an informant this was an actual terrorist who wanted to do harm? this is why they do operations like this in the first place. Whether the informant was a good friend to him made no difference, if my best friend told me he needed my help to kill someone or blow up a building, I would tell him to fuck off and contact the authorities. People are not sheep, this man is an adult and made his own decision, now he must face the consequences. Maybe Muslims needs to start saying no to terrorism in general, whether its to informant or actual terrorists.

But it wasn't an actual terrorist (at least not the kind you're talking about) and Hassoun's own statements indicate that he wasn't willing to cause deaths before he was presumably convinced by the informant to change his position (we know, for example, that they promised him money.) If someone was genuinely attempting to convince people to do that sort of thing, it's highly unlikely that...

a. He'd be able to do so without being apprehended;

b. He'd have access to the type of explosives needed to cause any significant damage;

c. His lackey would be able to evade detection and see to the successful detonation of the explosives.

The FBI is practicing entrapment.

 

[High_Gravity]

The intent worries me, what if instead of an informant this was an actual terrorist who wanted to do harm? this is why they do operations like this in the first place. Whether the informant was a good friend to him made no difference, if my best friend told me he needed my help to kill someone or blow up a building, I would tell him to fuck off and contact the authorities. People are not sheep, this man is an adult and made his own decision, now he must face the consequences. Maybe Muslims needs to start saying no to terrorism in general, whether its to informant or actual terrorists.

But it wasn't an actual terrorist (at least not the kind you're talking about) and Hassoun's own statements indicate that he wasn't willing to cause deaths before he was presumably convinced by the informant to change his position (we know, for example, that they promised him money.) If someone was genuinely attempting to convince people to do that sort of thing, it's highly unlikely that...

a. He'd be able to do so without being apprehended;

b. He'd have access to the type of explosives needed to cause any significant damage;

c. His lackey would be able to evade detection and see to the successful detonation of the explosives.

The FBI is practicing entrapment.

I'm sorry but if this man took explosives from the informant, what was he planning to do? use them for the 4th of July parade? he wanted to engage in Radical Islam, if this was not his intent he would have reported the informant to the authorities. If Muslims would just tell anyone who approached them about terrorism, whether it be an informant or a real life terrorist, to fuck off and contact the authorities, everything would be fine. Young men like this have the intent to do harm, if this was not an informant but an actual terrorist reaching out to him people could have died. The blame lies at the feet of this young man, not the FBI.

 

[Kalam]

I'm sorry but if this man took explosives from the informant, what was he planning to do? use them for the 4th of July parade? he wanted to engage in Radical Islam, if this was not his intent he would have reported the informant to the authorities.

His motives actually didn't seem very religious.

Hassoun took a fake bomb given to him by undercover FBI agents and dropped it in a trash bin near the home of the Chicago Cubs baseball team, according to the complaint.

It says Hassoun waffled about motives, talking about profiting monetarily and sparking a revolution. Among multiple ideas, he allegedly spoke of assassinating Mayor Richard M. Daley.

Sami Samir Hassoun, Chicago Bomb Suspect, To Appear In Court

If Muslims would just tell anyone who approached them about terrorism, whether it be an informant or a real life terrorist, to fuck off and contact the authorities, everything would be fine. Young men like this have the intent to do harm, if this was not an informant but an actual terrorist reaching out to him people could have died. The blame lies at the feet of this young man, not the FBI.

The point is that there's almost no chance that he would have done anything had he not been entrapped by the FBI.

 

[High_Gravity]

Hassoun took a fake bomb given to him by undercover FBI agents and dropped it in a trash bin near the home of the Chicago Cubs baseball team, according to the complaint.

It says Hassoun waffled about motives, talking about profiting monetarily and sparking a revolution. Among multiple ideas, he allegedly spoke of assassinating Mayor Richard M. Daley.

Doesn't matter whether the motives were religious or not, he took the fake bomb and dropped it off in a public area, thats a crime. If the explosives were real, people could have been killed.

The point is that there's almost no chance that he would have done anything had he not been entrapped by the FBI.

This guy took a fake explosive and put in a public place, maybe if the FBI didn't do this, someone else would have got to him and people would have been hurt. 0 people were hurt in this operation, thats a win/win to me.

 

[Kalam]

This guy took a fake explosive and put in a public place, maybe if the FBI didn't do this, someone else would have got to him and people would have been hurt. 0 people were hurt in this operation, thats a win/win to me.

That being the operative word. How many bomb plots in last ten years do we know of? Of those, how many were FBI entrapment operations and how many were actual bomb plots? Of the latter group, how many were successful?

 

[High_Gravity]

This guy took a fake explosive and put in a public place, maybe if the FBI didn't do this, someone else would have got to him and people would have been hurt. 0 people were hurt in this operation, thats a win/win to me.

That being the operative word. How many bomb plots in last ten years do we know of? Of those, how many were FBI entrapment operations and how many were actual bomb plots? Of the latter group, how many were successful?

If the FBI did nothing, some of these attacks would have occured. After 9/11, the FBI and the other intel agencies have to be pro-active in dealing with terrorism, sitting around and hoping people will do the right thing is a failure.

 

[Ropey]

The peaceful Muslims were entrapped and turned into extremists by American FBI agents? We catch our criminals in the same sting operations since long before nine eleven and Muslims Kalam.

We catch more criminals with stings. Just once in a while do we find some of the extremists talking and doing. We catch them as well. They wanted to cut off the head of our Prime Minister. They are not criminals, they are terrorists. There is a great difference.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUfFdhIOoQM]Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper - I Will Defend Israel 'whatever the cost' [/ame]

We Canadians are fine with entrapment of criminals and terrorists. Remember you said that it starts in the mind Kalam. You agree that before the act is the mind and that mind is what is judged. So, as you said, then clearly their minds had been on track to harm others in extreme ways.

We don't hate them either. We just want to cull the ones who are extreme in thinking and who are willing to act.

Know?

 

[High_Gravity]

The FBI catches Italian Mafiosis, Mexican Cartel and Russian gangsters the same way, don't see any reason why this can't be used against Muslims who want to practice terror.

 

[Kalam]

If the FBI did nothing, some of these attacks would have occured. After 9/11, the FBI and the other intel agencies have to be pro-active in dealing with terrorism, sitting around and hoping people will do the right thing is a failure.

Who said they should do nothing?

 

[High_Gravity]

If the FBI did nothing, some of these attacks would have occured. After 9/11, the FBI and the other intel agencies have to be pro-active in dealing with terrorism, sitting around and hoping people will do the right thing is a failure.

Who said they should do nothing?

If you don't think sting operations like this are a good idea, what other methods should the FBI and other intel agencies use to bring in terrorists?