Fast and furious began with bush so...

LilOlLady

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FAST AND FURIOUS BEGAN WITH BUSH.

why is bush not being investigated?

Attkisson said efforts to reach former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, who was in office when "Wide Receiver" started under the Bush administration, were unsuccessful. (Guess he's in the shadows)

Informant: ATF "gun walking" went on for years - CBS News



Purchase of massive amount of guns came about because of ring wing gun laws. Gun were bought here and transferred into the hands of drug cartels long before Fast and Furious and long after Fast and Furious. Why isn’t Congressman Issa persecuting Bush like he is persecuting Atty. Gen. Holder? Fast and Furious started with Bush administration three years before it continued into the Obama administration.



Cong. Issa asked Holder; “who ordered Fast and Furious?” He should have answered; “George W. Bush” So why are they not going after Bush? Because going after Bush would not be an attack on Obama. Lets give credit were credit is due. Bush deserved to explain.



One Fast and Furious gun killed one border agent? How many American guns did Bush allow to kill thousands of innocent Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan? And whose heads of rolling for that “mistake.” Crimes against humanity disguise as “war.” Like the invasion and occupation of America and the genocide of native Americans disguised as “discovery of the new world.” Except it was not new. How many innocent Americans are killed by right wing liberal gun laws? Issa and his buddies has more blood on their hands than Fast and Furious and a hog killing.



Persecuting Holder is a right wing witch hunt against the Obama administration. This investigation reminds me of “To Kill a Mocking Bird.”
 
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This is why many Republicans are reluctant to investigate this. They've put Party before Country.

Yeah, Obama expanded it and made it bigger, but George Bush DID start it, just under a different name.

Holder understands this and is going to use that info during any investigation unless he gets "suicided".
 
Pretty much. Bush started it, realized its failures, Obama admin came in and tried it again under a different name.

You LOLberals, while are partially right, can not fully pass the buck on this. What is right is right, Obama (and his admin.)is just as guilty. There are no two ways around that.
 
Eric Holder should be impeached, tried and then given the jail cell right next to the WTC bomber/imam in Marion, Indiana. The man is an absolute IDIOT.

And the first post in this thread is the most ignorant bunch of crap that I have ever read. Read a little. It's amazing what you can find out.
 
Pretty much. Bush started it, realized its failures, Obama admin came in and tried it again under a different name.

You LOLberals, while are partially right, can not fully pass the buck on this. What is right is right, Obama (and his admin.)is just as guilty. There are no two ways around that.

Only thing tho, if this is true is, Obama is the only one being held to account for this.
 
Whaaaa, whaaa, whaaaa..........Holder lied to Congress about his knowledge, if he had come clean, admitted the screw up, apologized to the Terry family and stepped down it would all be forgiven. His stonewalling and lying is a load of crap. Holder needs to go!! However, the longer he stays, the worse it gets for Obama. You lefties should be screaming for him to step down, several Dems in Congress are.
 
Holder's been trying to tie these previous programs to Fast & Furious for a couple years now, it's not working:

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin in House hearing
Published: 11:01 AM 06/07/2012
By Matthew Boyle

Attorney General Eric Holder yet again attempted to implicate former President George W. Bush’s administration for the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious at the beginning of Thursday’s House Judiciary Committee hearing.

“As a result of concerns raised by ATF agents we now know of several Arizona-based investigations that occurred under this administration and the previous one where inappropriate tactics were used in an attempt to stem the flow of illegal guns across the Southwest Border,” Holder said in his opening statement, according to prepared remarks.

“Although these law enforcement operations – which include Wide Receiver, Medrano, Hernandez, Fast and Furious, and others – were focused on the laudable goal of dismantling illegal gun trafficking networks, they were flawed in both concept and execution. I share your concerns about how these operations were developed and implemented. That’s why – just as Congressional leaders have called for answers – I asked the Department’s Inspector General to conduct a comprehensive investigation as well.”

The Wide Receiver, Medrano and Hernandez operations occurred under the Bush administration, while Fast and Furious occurred during the Obama administration. According to congressional Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, though, in Wide Receiver and Hernandez, the Bush administration coordinated with Mexican law enforcement authorities. According to those same Democrats, it’s unclear whether or not Bush administration officials coordinated with Mexico in the Medrano case.

During Operation Fast and Furious, the Obama administration made no efforts to coordinate with Mexico. According to Mexico’s ambassador to the United States Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico has now launched its own independent investigation into the Obama administration’s actions during Fast and Furious. Sarukhan said the Mexican people have lost faith in America, too, because of the operation.

“Regardless of whether this was or was not the intent or the design of Fast and Furious, the thinking that you can let guns walk across the border and maintain operational control of those weapons is really an outstanding lack of understanding of how these criminal organizations are operating on both sides of our common borders,” Sarukhan said at a recent event in Washington, adding that he thinks the Obama administration had significantly damaged its popularity in Mexico.

Holder and congressional Democrats have tried to argue that the Bush administration’s programs similar to Fast and Furious were just as poorly conceived and executed. But, there are no known casualties as a result of those programs. Fast and Furious, on the other hand, directly resulted in the murders of at least hundreds of Mexican citizens, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and likely Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jaime Zapata.

In his opening statement, though, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Lamar Smith painted a much different picture of Holder with regards to Fast and Furious.

“The Department of Justice still has not provided enough information about Operation Fast and Furious so that the American public and Congress can judge who in the Department bears responsibility for the decisions that led to Agent Brian Terry’s death,” Smith said according to prepared remarks. “The Justice Department refuses to comply with Congressional subpoenas that may shed light on why this program was authorized and who had knowledge of the inappropriate tactics.”

Smith also criticized Holder for stonewalling on documents related to Justice Elena Kagan’s involvement in crafting Obamacare’s legal defense while acting as the administration’s solicitor general before being appointed to the Supreme Court and for using the Justice Department to attack voter ID laws.

Rep. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said in response that “never in the career of Chairman Smith as the chair of this committee have I heard so many erroneous statements, and having never heard them before I can assure him and you that I will be going over his statements and help him arrive at a more factual and impartial conclusion.”

Read more: Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller
 
Holder's been trying to tie these previous programs to Fast & Furious for a couple years now, it's not working:

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin in House hearing
Published: 11:01 AM 06/07/2012
By Matthew Boyle

Attorney General Eric Holder yet again attempted to implicate former President George W. Bush’s administration for the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious at the beginning of Thursday’s House Judiciary Committee hearing.

“As a result of concerns raised by ATF agents we now know of several Arizona-based investigations that occurred under this administration and the previous one where inappropriate tactics were used in an attempt to stem the flow of illegal guns across the Southwest Border,” Holder said in his opening statement, according to prepared remarks.

“Although these law enforcement operations – which include Wide Receiver, Medrano, Hernandez, Fast and Furious, and others – were focused on the laudable goal of dismantling illegal gun trafficking networks, they were flawed in both concept and execution. I share your concerns about how these operations were developed and implemented. That’s why – just as Congressional leaders have called for answers – I asked the Department’s Inspector General to conduct a comprehensive investigation as well.”

The Wide Receiver, Medrano and Hernandez operations occurred under the Bush administration, while Fast and Furious occurred during the Obama administration. According to congressional Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, though, in Wide Receiver and Hernandez, the Bush administration coordinated with Mexican law enforcement authorities. According to those same Democrats, it’s unclear whether or not Bush administration officials coordinated with Mexico in the Medrano case.

During Operation Fast and Furious, the Obama administration made no efforts to coordinate with Mexico. According to Mexico’s ambassador to the United States Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico has now launched its own independent investigation into the Obama administration’s actions during Fast and Furious. Sarukhan said the Mexican people have lost faith in America, too, because of the operation.

“Regardless of whether this was or was not the intent or the design of Fast and Furious, the thinking that you can let guns walk across the border and maintain operational control of those weapons is really an outstanding lack of understanding of how these criminal organizations are operating on both sides of our common borders,” Sarukhan said at a recent event in Washington, adding that he thinks the Obama administration had significantly damaged its popularity in Mexico.

Holder and congressional Democrats have tried to argue that the Bush administration’s programs similar to Fast and Furious were just as poorly conceived and executed. But, there are no known casualties as a result of those programs. Fast and Furious, on the other hand, directly resulted in the murders of at least hundreds of Mexican citizens, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and likely Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jaime Zapata.

In his opening statement, though, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Lamar Smith painted a much different picture of Holder with regards to Fast and Furious.

“The Department of Justice still has not provided enough information about Operation Fast and Furious so that the American public and Congress can judge who in the Department bears responsibility for the decisions that led to Agent Brian Terry’s death,” Smith said according to prepared remarks. “The Justice Department refuses to comply with Congressional subpoenas that may shed light on why this program was authorized and who had knowledge of the inappropriate tactics.”

Smith also criticized Holder for stonewalling on documents related to Justice Elena Kagan’s involvement in crafting Obamacare’s legal defense while acting as the administration’s solicitor general before being appointed to the Supreme Court and for using the Justice Department to attack voter ID laws.

Rep. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said in response that “never in the career of Chairman Smith as the chair of this committee have I heard so many erroneous statements, and having never heard them before I can assure him and you that I will be going over his statements and help him arrive at a more factual and impartial conclusion.”

Read more: Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller

Gawd, I'm sick of "it's Bush's fault" and "they did it too, so it makes it OK". These are supposed to be the leaders of the strongest nation in the World and they are acting like kids on the playground. Grow up and act like you give a sh*t at least.
 

FAST AND FURIOUS BEGAN WITH BUSH.

why is bush not being investigated?

Attkisson said efforts to reach former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, who was in office when "Wide Receiver" started under the Bush administration, were unsuccessful. (Guess he's in the shadows)

Informant: ATF "gun walking" went on for years - CBS News



Purchase of massive amount of guns came about because of ring wing gun laws. Gun were bought here and transferred into the hands of drug cartels long before Fast and Furious and long after Fast and Furious. Why isn’t Congressman Issa persecuting Bush like he is persecuting Atty. Gen. Holder? Fast and Furious started with Bush administration three years before it continued into the Obama administration.



Cong. Issa asked Holder; “who ordered Fast and Furious?” He should have answered; “George W. Bush” So why are they not going after Bush? Because going after Bush would not be an attack on Obama. Lets give credit were credit is due. Bush deserved to explain.



One Fast and Furious gun killed one border agent? How many American guns did Bush allow to kill thousands of innocent Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan? And whose heads of rolling for that “mistake.” Crimes against humanity disguise as “war.” Like the invasion and occupation of America and the genocide of native Americans disguised as “discovery of the new world.” Except it was not new. How many innocent Americans are killed by right wing liberal gun laws? Issa and his buddies has more blood on their hands than Fast and Furious and a hog killing.



Persecuting Holder is a right wing witch hunt against the Obama administration. This investigation reminds me of “To Kill a Mocking Bird.”

Jeez - you have a lot of pent-up hate and anger. Why waste it on a message board? Enlist, asswipe..... enlist... !!!
 
This is why many Republicans are reluctant to investigate this. They've put Party before Country.

Yeah, Obama expanded it and made it bigger, but George Bush DID start it, just under a different name.

Holder understands this and is going to use that info during any investigation unless he gets "suicided".

And it was under strict controls with an explicit purpose under Bush. And it was nullified.

The purpose it was put to under Holder was to undermine the 2nd amendment, which the administration is hostile to. They knew it would result in death, and very likely to the death of an American, even a border agent. That American death was its sine quae non.
 
This is why many Republicans are reluctant to investigate this. They've put Party before Country.

Yeah, Obama expanded it and made it bigger, but George Bush DID start it, just under a different name.

Holder understands this and is going to use that info during any investigation unless he gets "suicided".

And it was under strict controls with an explicit purpose under Bush. And it was nullified.

The purpose it was put to under Holder was to undermine the 2nd amendment, which the administration is hostile to. They knew it would result in death, and very likely to the death of an American, even a border agent. That American death was its sine quae non.

Well, theres only a few months till election. I'm sure you should've gotten your NRA " *fill in the blank* election is happening soon. Buy your guns before they take them" email, but Obama hasnt done anything hostile toward the 2nd amendment.
 

FAST AND FURIOUS BEGAN WITH BUSH.

why is bush not being investigated?

So all of a sudden Boosh is to get credit for something started under his administration, but you dare not mention Boosh's role in the leading up to the killing of Osama Bin Laden..... :hmpf:
 
Gawd, I'm sick of "it's Bush's fault" and "they did it too, so it makes it OK". These are supposed to be the leaders of the strongest nation in the World and they are acting like kids on the playground. Grow up and act like you give a sh*t at least.

I'm sick of it too but if its true, the truth doesnt care if you are sick of it or not. No one is saying "they did it too, so it makes it ok" but what I do hear is people saying "they did it too, so it's all Obamas fault".

And thats not correct, right, factual or logical in any way.
 
This is why many Republicans are reluctant to investigate this. They've put Party before Country.

Yeah, Obama expanded it and made it bigger, but George Bush DID start it, just under a different name.

Holder understands this and is going to use that info during any investigation unless he gets "suicided".

Party before country? The stupidity in that comment is only trumped by your complete ignorance of this topic.

Yes, there WAS a program that was started under W's Administration that tried to trace the path of weapons across the border to Mexico but it was COMPLETELY different from "Fast & Furious" in two ways. First of all, Operation Gun Runner was undertaken with the complete approval and cooperation of the Mexican authorities who worked WITH us to trace weapon smuggling. Secondly, the goal of Operation Gun Runner was to halt the flow of weapons to Mexico by arresting those who sold them. The program was halted by the Bush Administration however because ATF discovered that even with the help of the Mexican government that they were unable to reliably follow the weapons. The Bush Administration HALTED their operation because it wasn't working.

So how is "Fast & Furious" different than "Gun Runner"? To start with, Eric Holder made the decision to keep the Mexican government completely in the dark about "Fast & Furious". They weren't told by us that we were going to sell thousands of weapons to buyers that we KNEW were going to transport them across the border and sell them to drug cartels. Secondly, there was no attempt to trace the weapons sold because the goal of "Fast & Furious" was not the stopping of smuggling by arresting the smugglers...oh, no...the goal of "Fast & Furious" was to change gun laws in the US by showing that thousands of guns were being sold here and transported over the border and to blame our current gun control legislation for that happening, allowing the Obama Administration to call for tougher gun control laws.

The reason that Brian Terry and hundreds of Mexican nationals have died at the hands of weapons that WE supplied to vicious drug cartels is that Eric Holder and his boss Barack Obama put progressive polices before the safety of people. They wanted stricter gun control laws and didn't CARE if a few people were killed making that happen. In the words of one the people in charge of this fiasco..."You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet."

The reason that Eric Holder is stonewalling this is that he KNOWS if it is traced back to the White House that people will be rightfully outraged at the blatant callousness of their actions.
 
Holder obstructin' justice...
:mad:
Fast and Furious contempt vote up in the air
6/18/12 : Eric Holder and Darrell Issa had appeared close to a deal late last week.
GOP Rep. Darrell Issa warned Attorney General Eric Holder late Monday that if the Justice Department failed to turn over documents he is seeking, the California Republican will go ahead with a contempt vote against Holder as planned later this week. Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has been battling with DOJ since last year over documents related to the failed Fast and Furious program. The two sides had seemed close to making a deal late last week, but Issa cautioned Holder that he will only delay the contempt vote — set for his panel on Wednesday — if DOJ makes the Fast and Furious material available by Tuesday.

Issa and Holder are scheduled to meet Tuesday afternoon in the Oversight and Government Reform Committee’s offices in the Rayburn House Office Building. “As the department has not yet produced these documents — and unless it does so tomorrow morning — I will not be able to offer you the committee’s assessment of them at tomorrow’s meeting,” Issa said in his letter to Holder, the latest in a flurry of public missives between the two sides. Issa wants information related to a Feb. 4, 2011, letter from DOJ downplaying top officials knowledge of what occurred during the Fast and Furious operation. That letter was later withdrawn by DOJ as inaccurate, and Hill Republicans have been trying to determine how the incident occurred.

Issa also dismissed what Holder has called the “extraordinary accommodation” made by DOJ in deciding to turn over “internal deliberative documents” to congressional investigators. DOJ had previously said such documents were not subject to congressional subpoenas. “There is nothing extraordinary about an offer from a federal agency to fully or partially respond to a subpoena,” Issa told Holder. “I do, however, hope the department will decide to produce the documents that would justify a postponement [of Wednesday’s vote] and will use tomorrow’s discussion to better understand what steps it can take if it sincerely seeks an outcome other than continuation of contempt proceedings.”

DOJ officials met with Issa’s investigators last week to turn over some materials, and discussions between the two sides were ongoing throughout the weekend, GOP insiders said. Maryland Rep. Elijah Cummings, the top Democrat on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee, will be part of the session with Holder. Issa — backed by Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) and other House GOP leaders — has subpoenaed thousands of pages of DOJ documents related to the Fast and Furious “gun walking” program. That operation, run jointly by DOJ and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, allowed thousands of guns purchased in the United States to reach Mexican drug cartels as federal agents attempted to track them. But the effort failed and two U.S. law-enforcement officers were killed using Fast and Furious weapons, leading to outrage on Capitol Hill.

More Fast and Furious: Eric Holder contempt vote up in the air - POLITICO.com
 
Holder's been trying to tie these previous programs to Fast & Furious for a couple years now, it's not working:

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller

Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin in House hearing
Published: 11:01 AM 06/07/2012
By Matthew Boyle

Attorney General Eric Holder yet again attempted to implicate former President George W. Bush’s administration for the tactics used in Operation Fast and Furious at the beginning of Thursday’s House Judiciary Committee hearing.

“As a result of concerns raised by ATF agents we now know of several Arizona-based investigations that occurred under this administration and the previous one where inappropriate tactics were used in an attempt to stem the flow of illegal guns across the Southwest Border,” Holder said in his opening statement, according to prepared remarks.

“Although these law enforcement operations – which include Wide Receiver, Medrano, Hernandez, Fast and Furious, and others – were focused on the laudable goal of dismantling illegal gun trafficking networks, they were flawed in both concept and execution. I share your concerns about how these operations were developed and implemented. That’s why – just as Congressional leaders have called for answers – I asked the Department’s Inspector General to conduct a comprehensive investigation as well.”

The Wide Receiver, Medrano and Hernandez operations occurred under the Bush administration, while Fast and Furious occurred during the Obama administration. According to congressional Democrats on the House Oversight Committee, though, in Wide Receiver and Hernandez, the Bush administration coordinated with Mexican law enforcement authorities. According to those same Democrats, it’s unclear whether or not Bush administration officials coordinated with Mexico in the Medrano case.

During Operation Fast and Furious, the Obama administration made no efforts to coordinate with Mexico. According to Mexico’s ambassador to the United States Arturo Sarukhan, Mexico has now launched its own independent investigation into the Obama administration’s actions during Fast and Furious. Sarukhan said the Mexican people have lost faith in America, too, because of the operation.

“Regardless of whether this was or was not the intent or the design of Fast and Furious, the thinking that you can let guns walk across the border and maintain operational control of those weapons is really an outstanding lack of understanding of how these criminal organizations are operating on both sides of our common borders,” Sarukhan said at a recent event in Washington, adding that he thinks the Obama administration had significantly damaged its popularity in Mexico.

Holder and congressional Democrats have tried to argue that the Bush administration’s programs similar to Fast and Furious were just as poorly conceived and executed. But, there are no known casualties as a result of those programs. Fast and Furious, on the other hand, directly resulted in the murders of at least hundreds of Mexican citizens, U.S. Border Patrol agent Brian Terry and likely Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent Jaime Zapata.

In his opening statement, though, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. Lamar Smith painted a much different picture of Holder with regards to Fast and Furious.

“The Department of Justice still has not provided enough information about Operation Fast and Furious so that the American public and Congress can judge who in the Department bears responsibility for the decisions that led to Agent Brian Terry’s death,” Smith said according to prepared remarks. “The Justice Department refuses to comply with Congressional subpoenas that may shed light on why this program was authorized and who had knowledge of the inappropriate tactics.”

Smith also criticized Holder for stonewalling on documents related to Justice Elena Kagan’s involvement in crafting Obamacare’s legal defense while acting as the administration’s solicitor general before being appointed to the Supreme Court and for using the Justice Department to attack voter ID laws.

Rep. John Conyers, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said in response that “never in the career of Chairman Smith as the chair of this committee have I heard so many erroneous statements, and having never heard them before I can assure him and you that I will be going over his statements and help him arrive at a more factual and impartial conclusion.”

Read more: Holder pushes Fast and Furious blame toward Bush admin | The Daily Caller

Gawd, I'm sick of "it's Bush's fault" and "they did it too, so it makes it OK". These are supposed to be the leaders of the strongest nation in the World and they are acting like kids on the playground. Grow up and act like you give a sh*t at least.

Frankly both parties are acting like spoiled children who don't get what they want. How many times during President Bushes term did we hear it's all Clintons fault? Or even the faithful cons blaming Carter for the housing bubble or it's burst? Nope you get as good as you give. Dems deserve it and the GOP deserve it too.
 
The only complaints I remember about Clinton off the top of my head had to do with his nonchalant attitude about Osama bin Laden.

It's time to change out as many lifetime folks in Congress as we can and Presidents that behave as the last one's have only deserve one term. Their second term is always lame and hurts the American People. There is no benefit for keeping a President today.
 

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