Fascism and the left wing

[Wiseacre]

Wiseacre -

As you can see from the graphic, the extreme left and extreme right are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Bein in Nazi Germany no doubt felt more like being in Communist Russia than it did like the US or EU today.

But this does not mean they are the same - there are very key differences, as explained in the OP.

Conservatism champions small government, but the further to the right you go, the larger the government will be. All very powerful right wing governments - Franco, Antonescu, Hitler, Pinochet, Cristiani - have had massive bureacracies.

The right is for individual rights, less taxes, less regulations, and smaller gov't - all of which is the polar opposite of fascism. Fascism is all about total gov't control, the exact antithapy of the right; instead, it is the goal of the left. Can't see how you can possibly say the far right wants more gov't than the center right does, that makes no sense. Actually, it's the other way around, have you not heard of the Tea Party groups, who are demanding smaller and less intrusive gov't? These guys are not the center right, not even close.

Any kind of huge gov't with a large bureaucracy is by definiton a left wing gov't, with total or near total control of the citizenry. The far right wants the exact opposite, NO gov't control or very little, with an emphasis on individual liberties and rights. Such as property rights, do you think any of those regimes you mentioned allowed much in the way of property rights? NO - in each case the gov't made all the decisions about who gets what. NOBODY on the right, no matter how extreme you get, wants that.

By your definition, when is the last time we had a right wing president? It surely wasnt either Bush or Reagan, since all three expanded the government.

I would counter than both Bushes and Reagan had to deal with the democrats as well as moderates in their own party who were loathe to give up earmarks and other goodies to their constituents and backers. Probably the last repub president that actually didn't expand the size of gov't might have been Coolidge. None of which alters the fact the ideologically speaking the right wing is for smaller gov't than the left is.

Let me ask you 2 questions:

1. How much would Reagan have cut the size of gov't if the democrats had not lied about making spending cuts after they got their tax increases?

2. How much bigger would the size of gov't had been under Clinton if he had not had to work with Gingrich and the repub Congress? Do you think we would have had the budget surplus if he been able to spend more? I don't think so.

 

[Sallow]

The notion that a woman doesn't have control of her own body screws up the whole "indivdual liberty" thing. As does the whole Patriot Act.

Conservatives are laughable.

 

[bripat9643]

You’ll need to edit the bolded to match the rest of your post and graph.

Yes, Fascism in on the right side of the political spectrum; to suggest fascism is ‘left wing’ is ignorant idiocy.

Spoken like a true idiot. You proved exactly nothing.

 

[bripat9643]

Don't know where the graph came from, but it's bogus. Fascism/nazism are about gov't control, something the right is absolutely against. The right is for the opposite, smaller and less intrusive gov't. Any kind of totalitarianism is a far left form of gov't. The extreme right is for as little gov't as possible or no gov't at all. IOW, anarchy.

That's bullshit.

The right seeks a powerful central government which is homogeneous, rooted in tradition and religion.

No it doesn't, moron.

 

[Saigon]

The notion that a woman doesn't have control of her own body screws up the whole "indivdual liberty" thing. As does the whole Patriot Act.

Conservatives are laughable.

It is strange that conservatives talk so much about small government, but want to regulate who can marry who, who can sleep with who, and what the woman can do with the pregnancy.

 

[Sallow]

Don't know where the graph came from, but it's bogus. Fascism/nazism are about gov't control, something the right is absolutely against. The right is for the opposite, smaller and less intrusive gov't. Any kind of totalitarianism is a far left form of gov't. The extreme right is for as little gov't as possible or no gov't at all. IOW, anarchy.

That's bullshit.

The right seeks a powerful central government which is homogeneous, rooted in tradition and religion.

No it doesn't, moron.

Says the guy who longs for a powerful central government, which is homogeneous and rooted in tradition and religion.

Don't forget I remember that you think the best form of government is monarchy.

 

[bripat9643]

Correct.

The right, as with fascism, also works to stifle dissent, is fearful of diversity, and demands conformity.

More idiocy. If anyone attempts to stifle dissent, it's leftists. The right didn't invent campus speech codes, political correctness or race baiting.

The rest of your spiel is equally wrong and idiotic.

 

[Middleoftheroad]

The right is for individual rights, less taxes, less regulations, and smaller gov't - all of which is the polar opposite of fascism. Fascism is all about total gov't control, the exact antithapy of the right; instead, it is the goal of the left. Can't see how you can possibly say the far right wants more gov't than the center right does, that makes no sense. Actually, it's the other way around, have you not heard of the Tea Party groups, who are demanding smaller and less intrusive gov't? These guys are not the center right, not even close.

Any kind of huge gov't with a large bureaucracy is by definiton a left wing gov't, with total or near total control of the citizenry. The far right wants the exact opposite, NO gov't control or very little, with an emphasis on individual liberties and rights. Such as property rights, do you think any of those regimes you mentioned allowed much in the way of property rights? NO - in each case the gov't made all the decisions about who gets what. NOBODY on the right, no matter how extreme you get, wants that.

By your definition, when is the last time we had a right wing president? It surely wasnt either Bush or Reagan, since all three expanded the government.

I would counter than both Bushes and Reagan had to deal with the democrats as well as moderates in their own party who were loathe to give up earmarks and other goodies to their constituents and backers. Probably the last repub president that actually didn't expand the size of gov't might have been Coolidge. None of which alters the fact the ideologically speaking the right wing is for smaller gov't than the left is.

Let me ask you 2 questions:

1. How much would Reagan have cut the size of gov't if the democrats had not lied about making spending cuts after they got their tax increases?

2. How much bigger would the size of gov't had been under Clinton if he had not had to work with Gingrich and the repub Congress? Do you think we would have had the budget surplus if he been able to spend more? I don't think so.

Actually I don't think you have to go all the way back to Coolidge, I think IKE did cut the government some. My premise is this, modern republicans expand the government for THEIR stuff (military in particular) while trying to repeal democrats stuff (such as regulations). But neither side actually shrinks the government. Republicans are for smaller taxes in the belief that it stimulates the economy and makes up for it in growth. Democrats don't believe it stimulates the economy (or at least not very much).

to answer #1 the dem congress got the budget within 1% every year of what Reagan asked them to. If spending was going to be higher then this, Reagan should have known, the guy had economic advisors working for him after all.

2) Clinton was much more of a moderate dem as southern dems tend to be. He actually did want to reform welfare, just not in the way republicans did, in the end they compromised, although I think the republicans got more of what they were asking for then Clinton did. Yet, I think most of the savings in government spending came from a massive reduction in defense spending, which he shrank down to 3% of GDP, the lowest since pre-WWII.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

Given you are one of the posters who I have seen make this mistake on this board, I'd like to see you acknowledge the point.

 

[bripat9643]

Wiseacre -

As you can see from the graphic, the extreme left and extreme right are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Bein in Nazi Germany no doubt felt more like being in Communist Russia than it did like the US or EU today.

But this does not mean they are the same - there are very key differences, as explained in the OP.

Conservatism champions small government, but the further to the right you go, the larger the government will be. All very powerful right wing governments - Franco, Antonescu, Hitler, Pinochet, Cristiani - have had massive bureacracies.

Left-wingers are constantly trying to explain away the similarities between Communism and fascism. In the end, their attempts always fail. The differences are trivialities.

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.

Given you are one of the posters who I have seen make this mistake on this board, I'd like to see you acknowledge the point.

I've been arguing precisely the opposite my entire life.

 

[Sallow]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

Given you are one of the posters who I have seen make this mistake on this board, I'd like to see you acknowledge the point.

Given that his preferred form of government is Monarchy..Fascism..is left of that.

So for him..it's not a mistake.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.
.

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

And of course no amoint of information, dictionary definitions or sources could convince you of the fact that you are so obviously wrong.

The dictionaries are wrong. You are right.

Brilliant.


Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

Definition of fascism - political system, politics and practice

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Wiseacre -

As you can see from the graphic, the extreme left and extreme right are closer to each other than they are to the centre.

Bein in Nazi Germany no doubt felt more like being in Communist Russia than it did like the US or EU today.

But this does not mean they are the same - there are very key differences, as explained in the OP.

Conservatism champions small government, but the further to the right you go, the larger the government will be. All very powerful right wing governments - Franco, Antonescu, Hitler, Pinochet, Cristiani - have had massive bureacracies.

The right is for individual rights, less taxes, less regulations, and smaller gov't - all of which is the polar opposite of fascism. Fascism is all about total gov't control, the exact antithapy of the right; instead, it is the goal of the left. Can't see how you can possibly say the far right wants more gov't than the center right does, that makes no sense. Actually, it's the other way around, have you not heard of the Tea Party groups, who are demanding smaller and less intrusive gov't? These guys are not the center right, not even close.

Any kind of huge gov't with a large bureaucracy is by definiton a left wing gov't, with total or near total control of the citizenry. The far right wants the exact opposite, NO gov't control or very little, with an emphasis on individual liberties and rights. Such as property rights, do you think any of those regimes you mentioned allowed much in the way of property rights? NO - in each case the gov't made all the decisions about who gets what. NOBODY on the right, no matter how extreme you get, wants that.

The ‘right’ is not for individual rights with regard to privacy concerning abortion, the right of same-sex couples to equal protection of the law, or due process rights for immigrants and the citizen children of immigrants.

 

[bripat9643]

Says the guy who longs for a powerful central government, which is homogeneous and rooted in tradition and religion.

I don't long for that. I would cut our central government by 90%. I am also an atheist. Where did you get the idea that I'm religious?

Don't forget I remember that you think the best form of government is monarchy.

Every monarchy that existed in the 19th Century was far less powerfull than our current government. They certainly spent a far smaller percentage of the GDP.

 

[Middleoftheroad]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.

Yet, Hitler had all the socialists assassinated out of the Nazi party.

The truth is, it doesn't truly fit anywhere in with american left or right, actually, you would need a totally different scale.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

Given you are one of the posters who I have seen make this mistake on this board, I'd like to see you acknowledge the point.

Given that his preferred form of government is Monarchy..Fascism..is left of that.

So for him..it's not a mistake.

Yes, perhaps so!

Bring back Henry VIII!!

 

[bripat9643]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.
.

Oh dear.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

And of course no amoint of information, dictionary definitions or sources could convince you of the fact that you are so obviously wrong.

The dictionaries are wrong. You are right.

Brilliant.


Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]

an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices: this is yet another example of health fascism in action

Definition of fascism - political system, politics and practice

Dictionaries are written by liberals. Anything in them that is even remotely political is bullshit.

 

[Saigon]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.

Yet, Hitler had all the socialists assassinated out of the Nazi party.

The truth is, it doesn't truly fit anywhere in with american left or right, actually, you would need a totally different scale.

Many Political Philosophers do agree with that. some have suggested other models which basically seek to cut Fascism out of the spectrum altogether, but I don't agree with that myself.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Bripat -

Do you accept that fascism is actually right wing?

No. Fascism is a form of socialism.

Given you are one of the posters who I have seen make this mistake on this board, I'd like to see you acknowledge the point.

I've been arguing precisely the opposite my entire life.

lol - obviously you’re one of the two.



This is not to say, of course, that today’s American conservatives are ‘fascists’ or ‘Nazis,’ but they both share the roots of the same political family tree.