Fanatical Feminism

[Cecilie1200]

Did you have a point, other than that you can't find and keep a man?

How misogynistic of you, to equate a woman's worth with her ability to "find and keep a man".

 

[Cecilie1200]

This is a woman in a great deal of pain. I think it is unfair to judge either her or her mother...we never know the truth of what goes on behind closed doors, and even if we did, doubtless for these two, there are two different truths. Mebbe Alice Walker is the horrible person her daughter describes....mebbe there is more to it...but whatever the case, feminism ain't the problem. Sounds to me like selfishness is.

I believe Ms. Walker's point is that feminism, as practiced by her mother and many other women, IS nothing more than the encouragement and sanctioning of pathological selfishness.

 

[Madeline]

Ms. Walker's Mommy did not value and protect her daughter. She did not value her grand. (According to Ms. Walker, anyways.) That ain't feminism, Cecile.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Ms. Walker's Mommy did not value and protect her daughter. She did not value her grand. (According to Ms. Walker, anyways.) That ain't feminism, Cecile.

No, it SHOULDN'T be feminism. "Shouldn't be" and "isn't" aren't the same things.

 

[Madeline]

Strong, healthy self-respecting women do not neglect their kids, Cecilie.

 

[Luissa]

If you don't want to be a feminist, don't be. But don't attack women who do.

 

[Madeline]

What else is there for a chick to be, Luissa? Anti-woman?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Strong, healthy self-respecting women do not neglect their kids, Cecilie.

Who ever accused modern-day feminists of being strong, healthy, self-respecting women?

 

[edthecynic]

Ok, since anecdotal evidence is the rule now, let's see what the two parent family looked like through a child's eyes who lived through the era that gave rise to feminism that CON$ want to return to.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQFkBiMgxiA]YouTube - Janey's Blues - Janis Ian.mp4[/ame]

Janey's Blues
Janis Ian

Janey's down, can't get off the ground
Too low to fall, she can't come up at all
Hey, Janey's just an accident
Fatal mistake on the day after Lent
and her parents always say
"We don't need you today,
"and we expect just the same"

She's got a blues-y feeling in her eye
and it's making her sigh
Cry... cry for Janey

Well, her mother plays on the golf course every day
and her daddy, he sits at home and plays with the maid
They've found the perfect alibi
Stay together for the sake of the child
You know, divorce don't fit
and they're too young to split
Think they're martyrs, but they're killing the kid

She's got a blues-y feeling in her eye
and it's making her sigh
Cry... cry for Janey

Now they put her down,
and they knock it if she hits the ground
Next moment, grab a purse
and take her out on the town
It's either a hit or a miss in the fight
A slap by day, and a kiss at night
You know, their hating sets them free
Loving only wants to see Janey taking sides

She's got a blues-y feeling in her eye
and it's making her sigh
Cry... cry for Janey
Cry for Janey
Cry for Janey
© Taosongs Two. All rights reserved; international copyright secured.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What else is there for a chick to be, Luissa? Anti-woman?

Oh, yeah, THAT speaks really well for feminism. "Agree with us, or you're anti-woman!" And you wonder why people have such a negative view of the feminist movement.

 

[Luissa]

How about this. We will fight for the rights of women who want them, and you can live your life the way you want to.

 

[edthecynic]

Did you have a point, other than that you can't find and keep a man?

How misogynistic of you, to equate a woman's worth with her ability to "find and keep a man".

No more misogynistic than CON$ equating a woman's intelligence with whether she has a "smart guy around to keep 'em in line."

July 22, 2008
RUSH: when men are around, women get smarter and that when men leave, women get stupid? I mean, we could look at this data any way you want, folks, is what I'm trying to say here. So women who get divorced get dumber 'cause there's no smart guy around to keep 'em in line politically. Married women are obviously smarter. Married women are obviously more conservative. Single, divorced, widowed, separated women, no man around, the brain goes south.

 

[CurveLight]

1. I certainly can't argue with your experiences, they are reality. I appreciate your sharing.

2. I must have missed the turn here: "But what of the children of unhappy families? Or families that need both incomes? Isn't it rather late in the day to be arguing they are doomed?"

Not sure where the discussion of the radical form of feminism suggests that women should not have careers?
The point is that the protaganists of same wish enforced careers, as the quote that I presented earlier states.

How do 'unhappy families' fit into this discussion?

As far as 'needing two incomes,' the calculus is purely subjective; it is based on choices.

And who is doomed? And how so?


3." But what of the children of unhappy families? Or families that need both incomes? Isn't it rather late in the day to be arguing they are doomed?"
You seem to imply that I am doing this, or agreeing with this concept....I don't know where you are finding this implication. Bogus.

Nor am I attacking your generation...

4. I am only too happy to attack any 'feminists' who:

a. insist that women must have a career at the expense of the choice of having a family. The OP and related article bear witness to this path to "manufacture misery."

b. find that, commensurate with the positive changes brought about by feminism, the distruction of the family unit, and opposition to interdependance with male members thereof, and of morality is necessary.

This has been exhilarating!

I'm truely unaware of any pressure ever applied to young women to keep them from having families. Much of the work that went on was about valuing a stay at home mom's work, as well as sharing the housework and childcare duties between two working parents.

In this vein, yes I know of some extremists who "opposed relationships with men" but IRL, I don't know a single woman who found this appealing, nevermind persuasive. This "branch" of feminism came and went in a few years, and did little other than marginalize "Ms magazine".

Unhappy families fit in because in the 1950's, a single woman and her kids had very little hope. No child support, possibly no divorce, no career options, no child care.....I think things are better now, overall.

It is interesting stuff to discuss, Political Chic....your Ops always are.

1. Ubiquitous in the writing of Second Wave Feminists, let me repeat, with emphasis:
"Logical as it seems that women should be prepared for events such as divorce and widowhood, marriage and family may reduce opportunities for outside work or education. But the solution, according to Simone de Beauvoir in an interview with Betty Friedan is “No woman should be authorized to stay at home and raise her children. Society should be totally different. Women should not have that choice precisely because if there is such a choice, too many women will make that one.” “Sex, Society, and the Female Dilemma,” Saturday Review, June 14, 1975, p. 18.
a. Like all totalitarian movements, the goal is not to give more freedom, but to take away choice.

2. "...some extremists who "opposed relationships with men" but IRL, I don't know a single woman who found this appealing, nevermind persuasive."

a. From Robin Morgan (current editor of MS magazine) "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan

b. "All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French Author, "The Women's Room"

c. "Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin

d. "[Rape] is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller (Against Our Will p. 6)

3. "...I think things are better now, overall."
That is not in dispute.

I notice you didn't give a link for those quotes. Why?

You wanted to know what Flynting Feminism means? You are guilty of it. When feminists began getting traction in the legal arena the porn industry tried to fight back and headed by Larry Flynt, began a dishonest campaign to demonize feminists as much as possible. One method was to attribute quotes to feminists that they had never made and/or take quotes out of context.

The above quote attributed to Andrea Dworkin is a bullshit lie. It was actually a quote from a fictional feminist:

"The first appearance of this quote is from P: A
Novel (2003) by Andrew Lewis Conn as a quote from
the fictional feminist "Corinne Dwarfkin". The
original reads "In capsule form, my thesis is that
heterosexual intercourse is the pure, distilled
expression of men's contempt for women." In the
slightly altered form given above, the quote is
attributed in several books to Andrea Dworkin. Neil
Boyd, in Big Sister (2004) attributes the quote to
Letters from a War Zone, however, this quote, nor
any one with similar phrasing, appears in that work."
Andrea Dworkin - Wikiquote

(If you don't like wiki there are several other sources available.)

You are a self-hating woman who is ignorant of basic facts and like Flynt, showing no regard for honesty in operating your agenda of anti-feminism.

 

[CurveLight]

I can see why politicalchic didn't give a link for her quotes:

Feminism - Conservapedia

If you're too embarrassed to source it shouldn't that be enough to not use it as a source?

 

[Si modo]

True feminism is fighting for ALL choices women can make. Some choose motherhood, some choose carreer. THEY, as human beings, are the only ones who get to make that choice.

 

[Si modo]

Feminism has ruined countless lives.
As with all ideals...there are good things and bad things - American feminism expanded the bad things and only marginally effected success in the good things.

Only marginally?

Not quite.

But, now that more women are not good little wifeys and mommys, I can see how this threatens you.

 

[CurveLight]

True feminism is fighting for ALL choices women can make. Some choose motherhood, some choose carreer. THEY, as human beings, are the only ones who get to make that choice.

In a nutshell, that's it. As Wittig pointed out, a matriarchy is no less oppressive than a patriarchy; it is only the sex of the oppressor that changes.

 

[Si modo]

True feminism is fighting for ALL choices women can make. Some choose motherhood, some choose carreer. THEY, as human beings, are the only ones who get to make that choice.

In a nutshell, that's it. As Wittig pointed out, a matriarchy is no less oppressive than a patriarchy; it is only the sex of the oppressor that changes.

Shit. Curvelight and I agree.

(Nah, that's OK. I figured eventually we all will find something upon which we can agree.)

 

[editec]

We owe a debt of gratitude to Feminism for freeing our daughers and sisters from the oppressive social norms that I grew uo with.

Sadly the excesses of misandonists maquading as real feminists still leave a bad taste in our mouths and a whole lotta those manhating gals rode the wave of honest feminism into positions of real power.

I was the S.O. and then married to an honest feminist for a quarter of a century, and I have to tell you she was (is) one of the most stand up people I have ever had the previlege to know.

Real feminists are humanists who have focused their attention on the problems that plague women in this society.

They don't hate men, they just want to insure that woman are given equal opportunity in society.

Now seriously, what person who is not a misgynist can really object to that goal?

 

[Cecilie1200]

How about this. We will fight for the rights of women who want them, and you can live your life the way you want to.

Excuse me? You think you have the authority to negotiate deals "generously allowing" me to live my life the way I want to? Get the fuck over yourself. I can ALREADY live my life the way I want to, so why do I have to make any concessions to you?

How about THIS? You fight for the rights of yourself, and stop trying to pretend you're acting in my name without my permission, and I"ll go right on living my life without you pompously trying to take credit for it.