Failure of Creation

[Indeependent]

That’s why God said, “Let us make MAN”.
Man is culmination of all of the elements of creation.

He also says that in the plural: "Let us..."

As an artist speaks to his tools.

That is one interpretation, and a good one, yes.

There are an infinite number of interpretations; God’s word is never simple.

You mean it is vague and can be taken to mean almost anything? Yet Hindu culture which is very specific and detailed is obviously nonsense?
Anything with an infinite number pf interpretations is meaningless.

I never said vague.
And you can’t read Hebrew so you’re missing what the English can’t capture.

 

[Taz]

It's a book of fiction, take it any way you want.

Not that I want to get into this to any degree because I don't, but seriously, Taz, do any of you atheistic asses ever know what you are talking about? Many of the people, places and events have been historically and archeologically documented and confirmed. Up to you whether to believe in Jesus or God, but the man Jesus lived and his life has been well researched. But I admit, written after the fact, there are many contradictions and gaping questions left in the Bible, but then, seeing that it was written nearly 2000 years by ancient man FOR ancient man and translated several times, not really surprised.

Yes places are probably real, like when Stephen King writes about NYC in his book, it's still a book of fiction even if you use the name of real places. None of the big things claimed can be proven.

Do yourself a favor and stick to subjects you can at least pretend to know a tiny bit about. If you knew jack, you'd know that they've traced Jesus's life down to the many people surrounding his life, the very streets he walked and the approximate place where he was crucified.

I can see that jesus possibly existed, but I'm talking about all the big things/miracles in the bible. Like, no proof Jesus turned water into wine, or walked on water, or was resurrected... No proof of a 40 day worldwide flood... I can go on and on as you know...

Jesus definitely existed. But I agree, how do you prove these things happened? All we have is recorded stories and no way to prove whether they were literal, figurative or what. Maybe Jesus was just a magician from another planet who did illusions like David Blaine, right? So you either take them on faith in your heart or you do not.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Faith is like wishful thinking. Might as well believe in Santa as well while you're at it.

 

[toobfreak]

I’m sure you’d love

Why are you sure of anything?

You do realize that the only Indians allowed out of India belong to the top 2 castes and the rest are literally relegated to defecating in the street.

Do you realize that doesn't have SQUAT to do with anything we've talked about? And I couldn't give a flying crap about India.

 

[toobfreak]

I never said vague.

You just said it.

And you can’t read Hebrew.

How would you know?

 

[toobfreak]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Only if you are trying to prove them. I'm still waiting for proof that Hillary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary, that Al Gore really invented the internet and that Barack Obama isn't the Kenyan-born person he claimed for seventeen years. Claiming that all life, knowledge, consciousness and wisdom just spontaneously "happened" from dust colliding is space is another extraordinary claim. Prove it.

Faith is like wishful thinking.

Faith is faith. Just like the faith you had in everything your parents told you from a child until you were old enough to think for yourself. Some things simply cannot be proven or answered through direct experiment. 84% of the world (5.6 billion people) fill in the gaps with some system or belief they trust and have faith in. The remainder fill it in with another faith-driven belief system: atheism. That neither makes it right nor wrong.

 

[Indeependent]

I never said vague.

You just said it.

And you can’t read Hebrew.

How would you know?

What does vague have to do with God’s infinite ability to pack a few words with wisdom that can be studied for an eternity?
I presume you’ve never been to a Jewish bookstore.

This topic has plenty to do with India.
Their “religious” writings have produced a culture of stratified Totalitarianism.

 

[james bond]

The proof of Resurrection is by inference. Like the Trinity, one has to remember the three truths -- 1) There was the evidence of the giant stone in front of the tomb of Jesus being moved aside and the tomb where the body of Jesus laid was empty witnessed by women who went to visit, 2) There were different eyewitnesses to seeing Lord Jesus alive again including his wounds; he was there in the flesh, and 3) The rise and continuity of Christianity to this day. If the religion of Christianity is destroyed, then so is Jesus, but this has not happened despite what Jesus' enemies, especially his equal Satan, have tried.

 

[Picaro]

like it's my fault you can't really dispute what I said.

Where did I ever say that? Just no point arguing with an idiot talking out his ass.

See, when you can't cite anything for your own claims,

Never made any claims, moron. And I linked you to enough material thinking you actually had an interest to know more that if you pursued all the available material would explain anything you wanted to know. Didn't realize I had another USMB pinhead.

we know you're just dissembling when you babble on about how 'it's just too complex for you other people to understand',

More bullshit I never said. You honestly can't read at the HS level, can you? All I ever said is that it takes years of study to understand (much like the Bible) so you can't give 5 second soundbiters and expect to get anything out of it.

and hoping we get all intimidated n stuff.

Right Jerkoff. I brought up the oldest religion on the planet in order to "intimidate" you.

You're just projecting your own insecurity here; we're also not intimidated by that tactic, either.

Clearly you are. I'm not the one defensively attacking anything or anyone, you are.

And, as I've said before, I'm not a Christian.

Obviously not. You're not qualified to be on any thread talking about any religion.

Your inability to deal with anything outside whatever slots you have to organize your assorted indoctrinations into already limit your ability to appreciate just how sophisticated the Bible is compared to navel watching and the comic book superstitions of pagans like Hindus and narcissists like Buddhists.

Blow it out your ass, faggot. I was baptized a Lutheran and have forgotten more about the world's religions than you'll ever know, jackass. Eat shit and Drop dead.

Oh noes, the troll got all mad n shit, went total faggot on us. lol that's what happens when you tards troll people who read and know a lot more than you do. Trying to disavow your own posts is also a pretty stupid tactic when you're too dumb to delete it first, like this troll did.

Blow me, asshole. The only one trolling here is you. Your "religion" is so frail and weak, you feel the need to go out and attack even the mention of any others! You're an "expert" on Hinduism despite knowing nothing about it and an even bigger expert on Christianity despite not even being one! AMAZING! You're a fucking Genie ass!

lol all I did was ask you to cite something you brought up, amid your usual dissembling rubbish. I never claimed to be an 'expert' on anything, all I have to do is show that you or any other bullshitter don't know a thing about you're braying about, which is very easy to, no expertise required, just basic knowledge, like you getting all butt hurt over being asked for a cite, since you announced yourself as being some sort of Big Giant Vedic Scholar N Stuff. Pipe down tard.

 

[toobfreak]

like it's my fault you can't really dispute what I said.

Where did I ever say that? Just no point arguing with an idiot talking out his ass.

See, when you can't cite anything for your own claims,

Never made any claims, moron. And I linked you to enough material thinking you actually had an interest to know more that if you pursued all the available material would explain anything you wanted to know. Didn't realize I had another USMB pinhead.

we know you're just dissembling when you babble on about how 'it's just too complex for you other people to understand',

More bullshit I never said. You honestly can't read at the HS level, can you? All I ever said is that it takes years of study to understand (much like the Bible) so you can't give 5 second soundbiters and expect to get anything out of it.

and hoping we get all intimidated n stuff.

Right Jerkoff. I brought up the oldest religion on the planet in order to "intimidate" you.

You're just projecting your own insecurity here; we're also not intimidated by that tactic, either.

Clearly you are. I'm not the one defensively attacking anything or anyone, you are.

And, as I've said before, I'm not a Christian.

Obviously not. You're not qualified to be on any thread talking about any religion.

Your inability to deal with anything outside whatever slots you have to organize your assorted indoctrinations into already limit your ability to appreciate just how sophisticated the Bible is compared to navel watching and the comic book superstitions of pagans like Hindus and narcissists like Buddhists.

Blow it out your ass, faggot. I was baptized a Lutheran and have forgotten more about the world's religions than you'll ever know, jackass. Eat shit and Drop dead.

Oh noes, the troll got all mad n shit, went total faggot on us. lol that's what happens when you tards troll people who read and know a lot more than you do. Trying to disavow your own posts is also a pretty stupid tactic when you're too dumb to delete it first, like this troll did.

Blow me, asshole. The only one trolling here is you. Your "religion" is so frail and weak, you feel the need to go out and attack even the mention of any others! You're an "expert" on Hinduism despite knowing nothing about it and an even bigger expert on Christianity despite not even being one! AMAZING! You're a fucking Genie ass!

lol all I did was ask you to cite something you brought up, amid your usual dissembling rubbish. I never claimed to be an 'expert' on anything, all I have to do is show that you or any other bullshitter don't know a thing about you're braying about, which is very easy to, no expertise required, just basic knowledge, like you getting all butt hurt over being asked for a cite, since you announced yourself as being some sort of Big Giant Vedic Scholar N Stuff. Pipe down tard.

Fuck off retard. Like an idiot, you asked me to site things which are derived from a broad variety of sources, not in any one place I know I can easily lay my hands on, and when I linked you to some material so that you could do your own research into it and make your own determinations, you chumped out braying that you needed to have everything handed you on a silver spoon while balancing on one leg or it was all rubbish. Then you go into a tirade about things you don't know the first thing about while admitting you don't know the first thing. Go get stuffed.

 

[Taz]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Only if you are trying to prove them. I'm still waiting for proof that Hillary was named after Sir Edmund Hillary, that Al Gore really invented the internet and that Barack Obama isn't the Kenyan-born person he claimed for seventeen years. Claiming that all life, knowledge, consciousness and wisdom just spontaneously "happened" from dust colliding is space is another extraordinary claim. Prove it.

Faith is like wishful thinking.

Faith is faith. Just like the faith you had in everything your parents told you from a child until you were old enough to think for yourself. Some things simply cannot be proven or answered through direct experiment. 84% of the world (5.6 billion people) fill in the gaps with some system or belief they trust and have faith in. The remainder fill it in with another faith-driven belief system: atheism. That neither makes it right nor wrong.

Except I grew up and then could tell what my parents were telling was bs or not.

And I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm enjoying watching where science is going with all this. I have my own theories, but so does everyone. But saying that it's an invisible superbeing in another dimension with zero proof just sounds kind of stupid to me.

 

[toobfreak]

Except I grew up and then could tell what my parents were telling was bs or not.

People grow up and decide on their own values of truth or not, but few people often truly know whether their beliefs are truth or still just beliefs.

But saying that it's an invisible superbeing in another dimension with zero proof just sounds kind of stupid to me.

Not sure who says that. But I share your skepticism in that regard. I don't believe in invisible, vengeful gods either. I need proof. The irony is that "seeing God" doesn't come like ordering a pizza. I know some lifelong priests never have their faith confirmed! Yet sometimes he just decides to reveal himself, to a peasant, to a pauper, to a rich man, to a skeptic. I started out life a total skeptic. The only thing I can say is that once you see him, there is no doubt about what you saw. I know that drives the skeptics nuts.

 

[james bond]

Except I grew up and then could tell what my parents were telling was bs or not.

And I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm enjoying watching where science is going with all this. I have my own theories, but so does everyone. But saying that it's an invisible superbeing in another dimension with zero proof just sounds kind of stupid to me.

I would guess your parents gave up on you. If someone gives your their answer whether it's scientific, rational, or something else, then you have to evaluate to see whether you believe them or not. Instead, you keep asking the same people the same questions. Now, that is stupid. However, I know you have a puny brain so cannot process this.

As for the invisible superbeing in another dimension, you do not have any evidence against it, either. By your logic, that should be kind of stupid to you, too. Thus, it's a wash and based on one's worldview, and some of that is based on "faith-based" beliefs.

 

[james bond]

BTW, here is someone making an offer for free trips to Scotland for life by providing inductive evidence. I just explained the Resurrection using inductive evidence. There you go.

You can get free holidays in Scotland for life - if you can prove Nessie exists

 

[Taz]

Except I grew up and then could tell what my parents were telling was bs or not.

People grow up and decide on their own values of truth or not, but few people often truly know whether their beliefs are truth or still just beliefs.

But saying that it's an invisible superbeing in another dimension with zero proof just sounds kind of stupid to me.

Not sure who says that. But I share your skepticism in that regard. I don't believe in invisible, vengeful gods either. I need proof. The irony is that "seeing God" doesn't come like ordering a pizza. I know some lifelong priests never have their faith confirmed! Yet sometimes he just decides to reveal himself, to a peasant, to a pauper, to a rich man, to a skeptic. I started out life a total skeptic. The only thing I can say is that once you see him, there is no doubt about what you saw. I know that drives the skeptics nuts.

So what did you see?

 

[BreezeWood]

The creation has failed and can't be saved. I hope I am wrong, but look at these three Bible verses. Your take?

Revelation 21:1 1Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

Isaiah 65:17 17"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

HAPPENING IN THE SAME TIME AS:

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

So, everything will end without a trace or even memory, and a new one will be created. Looks like the effort of salvation portrayed in Romans 8:20 has failed.

Is this good news or bad? I think probably good.

Your take?

Just find it interesting that what you quote was likewise predicted independently 3,000 years earlier in the Vedas.

Have a link to those Vedic passages? I would be interested in seeing them, if you have a source available.

Lots of religions claim to have books that are tens of millions of years old...I'd like to see one of them.

Who says that? The New testament didn't happen until about 700AD. The Books of course were known to The Church long before then but only by about 600 years. .

Greg

All the books were 'known' by the 60'sA.D., when they went from the oral traditions onto manuscripts. An early attempt to counter some Gnostic rubbish resulted in a list around 150A.D.. There was no 'cannon', it wasn't necessary, as the church was still small then, and in any case the only books that matter as 'cannon' are the four Gospels and some might throw in Revelation; the rest are histories and the like, or edifying literature, not critical to the theology. The term 'cannon' is a mis-used word re the NT. There are far more than enough copies around that it would be impossible for anyone to get away with fakes, unlike the case with Buddhism, Hinduism, and the pagan cults. Books didn't come along until later. Almost no books were disputed at Nicea and the later Council; Hebrews and a couple of others,The Shepherd Of Herma another, many were not included because they were redundant, or their provenances were suspect, but were fine for private reading. Not many were banned; that's why we have the 'Apocrypha' books still around, and included in many printings. There is also more than enough evidence the Gospels and the others were around from the beginning, and not fakes written later; there are no anachronisms at all in them, for one. Nobody in the fourth century could get away with that. Doesn't stop a lot of tards from claiming 'Constantine rewrote a lot of stuff', and also ignoring that none of the church leaders attending those Councils would have been intimidated into changing anything, most had already been tortured and crippled by the Romans, and weren't the least afraid of Emperors, and in any event too many copies were around for them to get away with that even if they wanted to.

.

All the books were 'known' by the 60'sA.D., when they went from the oral traditions onto manuscripts.

Almost no books were disputed at Nicea and the later Council;

many were not included because they were redundant, or their provenances were suspect

There is also more than enough evidence the Gospels and the others were around from the beginning, and not fakes written later; there are no anachronisms at all in them, for one.

sicko's living testament ... who needs links when they are the eyewitness.

There is also more than enough evidence the Gospels and the others were around from the beginning, and not fakes written later; there are no anachronisms at all in them, for one. Nobody in the fourth century could get away with that.

- and also ignoring that none of the church leaders attending those Councils would have been intimidated into changing anything, most had already been tortured and crippled by the Romans, and weren't the least afraid of Emperors, and in any event too many copies were around for them to get away with that even if they wanted to.

you misspelled forgeries - the same religious leaders that were tortured prior to the revisionist christian bible that was rewritten during the full length of the 4th century, just short of 100 years ... and lived to tell about it. give credit though, sicko covered all the basses for a 100 year rewrite making christianity the state religion of the roman empire (no coercion at all). .

not one original document is in existence and nothing ever written by the primary character.

 

[Picaro]

[
Fuck off retard. Like an idiot, you asked me to site things which are derived from a broad variety of sources, not in any one place I know I can easily lay my hands on, and when I linked you to some material so that you could do your own research into it and make your own determinations, you chumped out braying that you needed to have everything handed you on a silver spoon while balancing on one leg or it was all rubbish. Then you go into a tirade about things you don't know the first thing about while admitting you don't know the first thing. Go get stuffed.

lol so you were lying about any of that Hindu crap 'preceding the OT by thousands of years'. Okay, we got that pages ago, loser. Are you going to fall on the ground and threaten to hold your breath next?

 

[toobfreak]

[
Fuck off retard. Like an idiot, you asked me to site things which are derived from a broad variety of sources, not in any one place I know I can easily lay my hands on, and when I linked you to some material so that you could do your own research into it and make your own determinations, you chumped out braying that you needed to have everything handed you on a silver spoon while balancing on one leg or it was all rubbish. Then you go into a tirade about things you don't know the first thing about while admitting you don't know the first thing. Go get stuffed.

lol so you were lying about any of that Hindu crap 'preceding the OT by thousands of years'. Okay, we got that pages ago, loser. Are you going to fall on the ground and threaten to hold your breath next?

Do us all a favor and take your bloviating grade-school bullshit word games you copy from the other assholes who keep dragging this forum down to the kindergarten level and shove them where the sun doesn't shine. Either try to at least pretend like you can say something halfway intelligent about the topic or get off the thread.