FACTS on Dubya's great recession

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Is that why the Republican-led Congress didn't pass a single bill with oversight of the GSE's between 2003 and 2006?

dear capitalists don't want oversight they want to eliminate liberal interference in the free market.

The dear capitalists got that and it led to the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression.

they got it??? Fan Fred Fed SEC FHA etc etc were eliminated?? do you know anything??

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I can't believe you guys are still arguing with Derp on this.

 

[Faun]

dumbto3 strikes again. Bush was a liberal interventionist and dumbto3 likes liberal intervention, but he hates Bush who he should love? See why we are positive a liberal will be very very slow? Is any other conclusion possible?

Anyone calling Bush a Liberal at any level really has no business calling others dumb.

Just sayin'

of course if so you would not be so afriad to tell us what conservative things he did. What does your fear teach you?

To name a few off the top of my head ...

• Cut taxes
• Cut tariffs
• Cut overtime pay
• Supply side economics
• Restricted abortions
• Increased military
• His USSC picks
• Opposition to same-sex marriage

One of the things which cracks me up the most about the Conservative cult is how quickly its members try to distance themselves from the losers from within their own ranks. Usually by casting them as Liberals (which doesn't actually make them Liberals). Seems to me that Conservatism is a blind ideology where it truly believes it is perfect, meaning any imperfections aren't really a blight on the cause -- they're just Librul behavior.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Seems to me that Conservatism is a blind ideology where it truly believes it is perfect,

well freedom is perfect to the extend a concept like that can be. Certainly its perfect compared to liberal socialism which recently killed 120 million by slow starvation. Our Founders were for freedom from liberal govt because liberal govt had been the source of evil on earth. If you are opposed to freedom why not present your most important reason?

Are you afraid to try?

 

[Faun]

Seems to me that Conservatism is a blind ideology where it truly believes it is perfect,

well freedom is perfect to the extend a concept like that can be. Certainly its perfect compared to liberal socialism which recently killed 120 million by slow starvation. Our Founders were for freedom from liberal govt because liberal govt had been the source of evil on earth. If you are opposed to freedom why not present your most important reason?

Are you afraid to try?

First and foremost .... Conservatism does note equate to freedom. Who knows where you get that idea from. Try telling that to the women who want to be free to choose what they want to do with their pregnancies. Tell that nonsense to the gays who want to be free to marry the person they love. Tell that to the illegal aliens who want to stay in the U.S. These are just a few examples of where Conservatism opposes freedom rather than embracing it.

I get the feeling you think American Liberalism is the same form of Communism which starved millions. Heaven help you if you do. At any rate, who knows why you think I fear your questions? I answered your first one and now I'll answer this one....

The founders of our nation sought freedom from a theocratic monarchy, which was actually Conservative, not Liberal; and established a government to protect that freedom because they were smart enough to know that a neutral body (the government) was needed to ensure everyone has equal protection of that freedom. Because they knew even a neutral body like a federal government would become corrupt, if allowed, they established a system of checks and balances by creating different branches to limit the powers of any one branch as well as a system which allows us to participate in who our leaders are.

I don't fear freedom as long as that freedom is protected for everyone. That's what American Liberalism seeks. American Conservatism seeks to strip away those protections so that capitalism, and not individuals, can enjoy the complete and total freedom you speak of. A completely free capitalist society, left to its own accords, will eventually devour itself and turn society into a two class system of haves and have not; with the haves being a select few and most everyone else, a have not enslaved to corporations. Capitalism without regulations cannot survive. Socialism without capitalism cannot survive. We are amidst a great social experiment where both are working together as a system of checks and balances much like our system of government and much for the same reason.

 

[edthecynic]

Seems to me that Conservatism is a blind ideology where it truly believes it is perfect,

well freedom is perfect to the extend a concept like that can be. Certainly its perfect compared to liberal socialism which recently killed 120 million by slow starvation. Our Founders were for freedom from liberal govt because liberal govt had been the source of evil on earth. If you are opposed to freedom why not present your most important reason?

Are you afraid to try?

First and foremost .... Conservatism does note equate to freedom. Who knows where you get that idea from. Try telling that to the women who want to be free to choose what they want to do with their pregnancies. Tell that nonsense to the gays who want to be free to marry the person they love. Tell that to the illegal aliens who want to stay in the U.S. These are just a few examples of where Conservatism opposes freedom rather than embracing it.

I get the feeling you think American Liberalism is the same form of Communism which starved millions. Heaven help you if you do. At any rate, who knows why you think I fear your questions? I answered your first one and now I'll answer this one....

The founders of our nation sought freedom from a theocratic monarchy, which was actually Conservative, not Liberal; and established a government to protect that freedom because they were smart enough to know that a neutral body (the government) was needed to ensure everyone has equal protection of that freedom. Because they knew even a neutral body like a federal government would become corrupt, if allowed, they established a system of checks and balances by creating different branches to limit the powers of any one branch as well as a system which allows us to participate in who our leaders are.

I don't fear freedom as long as that freedom is protected for everyone. That's what American Liberalism seeks. American Conservatism seeks to strip away those protections so that capitalism, and not individuals, can enjoy the complete and total freedom you speak of. A completely free capitalist society, left to its own accords, will eventually devour itself and turn society into a two class system of haves and have not; with the haves being a select few and most everyone else, a have not enslaved to corporations. Capitalism without regulations cannot survive. Socialism without capitalism cannot survive. We are amidst a great social experiment where both are working together as a system of checks and balances much like our system of government and much for the same reason.

You have to remember in CON$ervoFascism you ARE free........ free to CONFORM.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

First and foremost .... Conservatism does note equate to freedom.

wow are you slow. Conservatives are for freedom from liberal govt. When the liberal govt has power the individual does not. Can you grasp that? Liberal govt was the source of evil on earth. That is why our founders gave us freedom from big liberal govt. Do you understand now?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."-Thomas Jefferson

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison

Welcome to your first lesson in American History!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I get the feeling you think American Liberalism is the same form of Communism which starved millions.

American liberalism is the communism our liberals can get away with in a free Republican country. Our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb when Stalin was slowly killing 60 million through slow starvation. And, they just elected Obama who supports single payer, had 3 communist parents and voted to left of Bwernie Sanders the only open communist in the Congress.

Norman Thomas quotes: http://quotes.liberty-
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.


This was precisely the tactic of “infiltration” advocated by Lenin and Stalin.[3] As Communist International General Secretary Georgi Dimitroff told the Seventh World Congress of the Comintern in 1935:
"Comrades, you remember the ancient tale of the capture of Troy. Troy was inaccessible to the armies attacking her, thanks to her impregnable walls. And the attacking army, after suffering many sacrifices, was unable to achieve victory until, with the aid of the famous Trojan horse, it managed to penetrate to the very heart of the enemy’s camp."[4]

C. S. Lewis on Diabolical Democracy, Socialism, and Public Education « Conservative Colloquium


Buckley endorsed Chambers’ analysis of modern liberalism as a watered-down version of Communist ideology. The New Deal, Chambers insists, is not liberal democratic but “revolutionary” in its nature and intentions, seeking “a basic change in the social and, above all, the power relationships within the nation.”

"I am for socialism, disarmament, and, ultimately, for abolishing the state itself... I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class, and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal."
--- Roger Nash Baldwin

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The founders of our nation sought freedom from a theocratic monarchy,

of course that is 100% idiotic and liberal. They fought for freedom from big liberal govt the source of evil on earth.

Here are 100 general quotes from our Founders about freedom from govt, notice not one mentions freedom from theocratic monarchy. Our founders were historians who knew about all the liberal big govts in human history. They gave us freedom from all of them.

Again welcome to your first lesson in American history!! Enjoy

13)That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.
13)"The path we have to pursue[when Jefferson was President ] is so quiet that we have nothing scarcely to propose to our Legislature."

-14)The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.

-15)The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

“I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.”
― James Madison



" 16)the natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to grain ground; that the greater the government the stronger the exploiter and the weaker the producer; that , therefore, the hope of liberty depends upon local self-16)governance and the vigilance of the producer class."


-17)A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor (read-taxes) and bread it has earned -- 18)this is the sum of good government.

-19)Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

-20)History, in general, only informs us of what bad government is.

-21)I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

-22)I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.

-23)My reading of history convinces me that bad government results from too much government.

-24)Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence.

-25)Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question.

-26)The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.

-27)Most bad government has grown out of too much government.

-28)Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread.

-29)Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms [of government] those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.

-30)I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious
31)"Agriculture, manufactures, commerce and navigation, the four
pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when left most
free to individual enterprise. Protection from casual
embarrassments, however, may sometimes be seasonably interposed."
--32)Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801.

33)"The policy of the American government is to leave their citizens
free, neither restraining nor aiding them in their pursuits."
--34)Thomas Jefferson to M. L'Hommande, 1787.

"[Ours is a] policy of not embarking the public in enterprises
better managed by individuals, and which might occupy as much
of our time as those political duties for which the public functionaries are particularly instituted. Some money could be
lent them [the New Orleans Canal Co.], but only on an assurance that it would be employed so as to secure the public objects."
--35)Thomas Jefferson to W. C. C. Claiborne, 1808.

"The rights of the people to the exercise and fruits of their own industry can never be protected against the selfishness of rulers
not subject to their control at short periods." --Thomas 36:Jefferson
to Isaac H. Tiffany, 1816.

"Our wish is that...[there be] maintained that state of property,
equal or unequal, which results to every man from his own industry
or that of his fathers." --37)Thomas Jefferson: 2nd Inaugural
Address, 1805.

"To take from one because it is thought that his own industry and that of his father's has acquired too much, in order to spare to
others, who, or whose fathers have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of
association--the guarantee to every one of a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." --38)Thomas Jefferson: Note
in Tracy's "Political Economy," 1816.

"Private enterprise manages so much better all the concerns to which it is equal." --Thomas 39)Jefferson: 6th Annual Message, 1806.

"The merchants will manage [commerce] the better, the more they are left free to manage for themselves." --39)Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800.


"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface." --40)Thomas Jefferson to William T. Barry, 1822. ME 15:389


Some] seem to think that [civilization's] advance has brought on too complicated a state of society, and that we should gain in happiness by treading back our steps a little way. I think, myself, that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. I believe it might be much simplified to the relief of those who maintain it." --50)Thomas Jefferson to William Ludlow, 1824. ME 16:75

The parties of Whig and Tory are those of nature. They exist in all countries, whether called by these names or by those of Aristocrats and Democrats, Cote Droite and Cote Gauche, Ultras and Radicals, Serviles and Liberals. The sickly, weakly, timid man fears the people, and is a Tory by nature. The healthy, strong and bold cherishes them, and is formed a Whig by nature." --51)Thomas Jefferson to Lafayette, 1823. ME 15:492

"Agriculture, manufactures, commerce and navigation, the four pillars of our prosperity, are the most thriving when left most free to individual enterprise. Protection from casual embarrassments, however, may sometimes be seasonably interposed." --52)Thomas Jefferson: 1st Annual Message, 1801. ME 3:337

"The power given to Congress by the Constitution does not extend to the internal regulation of the commerce of a State (that is to say, of the commerce between citizen and citizen) which remain exclusively with its own legislature, but to its external commerce only; that is to say, its commerce with another State, or with foreign nations, or with the Indian tribes." --53)Thomas Jefferson: Opinion on Bank, 1791. ME 3:147

"Our tenet ever was that Congress had not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but were restrained to those specifically enumerated, and that, as it was never meant that they should provide for that welfare but by the exercise of the enumerated powers, so it could not have been meant they should raise money for purposes which the enumeration did not place under their action; consequently, that the specification of powers is a limitation of the purposes for which they may raise money. ." - Thomas Jefferson

54)
"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin

55)"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."

-- 56)Thomas Paine


When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- 57)Benjamin Franklin

"We still find the greedy hand of government thrusting itself into every corner and crevice of industry, and grasping at the spoil of the multitude. Invention is continually exercised to furnish new pretenses for revenue and taxation. It watches prosperity as its prey and permits none to escape without a tribute."
-58)Thomas paine

"If the government robs Peter to pay Paul, it can always count on the support of Paul." [in America to bottom 45% pay no Federal taxes]
-Winston Churchhill

59)"The government of the United States [federal government] is a definite government confined to specified objects [powers]. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. CHARITY IS NO PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE DUTY OF THE GOVERNMENT."
-60)James madison
Jefferson: "Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated."


61)Patrick Henry
Tell me when did liberty ever exist when the sword and the purse were given up?

62)Thomas Jefferson
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."



64)I see,... and with the deepest affliction, the rapid strides with which the federal branch of our government is advancing towards the usurpation of all the rights reserved to the States, and the consolidation in itself of all powers, foreign and domestic; and that, too, by constructions which, if legitimate, leave no limits to their power... It is but too evident that the three ruling branches of [the Federal government] are in combination to strip their colleagues, the State authorities, of the powers reserved by them, and to exercise themselves all functions foreign and domestic."
-- 65)Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1825. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson


James Madison: "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions."

66)James Madison: "The government of the United States is a definite government, confined to specific objectives. It is not like state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government."

67)James Madison in Federalist paper NO. 45: "The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce."

68)

I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." - 70)Benjamin Franklin

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-Benjamin Franklin

"The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself." - Benjamin Franklin


One single object... [will merit] the endless gratitude of the society: that of restraining the judges from usurping legislation.
Thomas Jefferson, letter to Edward Livingston, March 25, 1825
Our peculiar security is in the possession of a written Constitution. Let us not make it a blank paper by construction.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Wilson Nicholas, September 7, 1803


That these are our grievances which we have thus laid before his majesty, with that freedom of language and sentiment which becomes a free people claiming their rights as derived from the laws of nature, andnot as the gift of their chief magistrate.

Thomas Jefferson, Rights of British America,
1774

The Constitution... is a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary which they may twist and shape into any form they please.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to Judge Spencer Roane, September 6, 1819


The principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Taylor, May 28, 1816

They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which may be good for the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please...Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.

Thomas Jefferson, Opinion on National Bank, 1791

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. A completely free capitalist society, left to its own accords, will eventually devour itself and turn society into a two class system of haves and have not;

of course thats utter lunacy !!! For Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to make money in a free society they have to make stuff everyone can afford! Have nots cannot afford to make the rich, rich. Do you understand now?? And, the beauty of capitalism is that if you make too much money you inspire competition until eventually your profits are reduced to $ 0. This is why 10,000 companies go bankrupt each month due to natural capitalist regulation.

Welcome to your first lesson n Econ 101!! This has been a great day for you!!

 

[edthecynic]

. A completely free capitalist society, left to its own accords, will eventually devour itself and turn society into a two class system of haves and have not;

of course thats utter lunacy !!! For Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to make money in a free society they have to make stuff everyone can afford! Have nots cannot afford to make the rich, rich. Do you understand now?? And, the beauty of capitalism is that if you make too much money you inspire competition until eventually your profits are reduced to $ 0. This is why 10,000 companies go bankrupt each month due to natural capitalist regulation.

Welcome to your first lesson n Econ 101!! This has been a great day for you!!

The end result of Capitalism is monopoly.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

. A completely free capitalist society, left to its own accords, will eventually devour itself and turn society into a two class system of haves and have not;

of course thats utter lunacy !!! For Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to make money in a free society they have to make stuff everyone can afford! Have nots cannot afford to make the rich, rich. Do you understand now?? And, the beauty of capitalism is that if you make too much money you inspire competition until eventually your profits are reduced to $ 0. This is why 10,000 companies go bankrupt each month due to natural capitalist regulation.

Welcome to your first lesson n Econ 101!! This has been a great day for you!!

The end result of Capitalism is monopoly.

of course if that was true you'd be able to say why. You're a useful idiot Marxist without a clue about who's making you say the things you say.

 

[Dad2three]

of course thats utter lunacy !!! For Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to make money in a free society they have to make stuff everyone can afford! Have nots cannot afford to make the rich, rich. Do you understand now?? And, the beauty of capitalism is that if you make too much money you inspire competition until eventually your profits are reduced to $ 0. This is why 10,000 companies go bankrupt each month due to natural capitalist regulation.

Welcome to your first lesson n Econ 101!! This has been a great day for you!!

The end result of Capitalism is monopoly.

of course if that was true you'd be able to say why. You're a useful idiot Marxist without a clue about who's making you say the things you say.

Thank you for putting that in terms us libs can understand.

We are now crystal clear on your completely false understanding of finances

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The end result of Capitalism is monopoly.

of course if that was true you'd be able to say why. You're a useful idiot Marxist without a clue about who's making you say the things you say.

Thank you for putting that in terms us libs can understand.

We are now crystal clear on your completely false understanding of finances

of course if false you would not be so afriad to explain why its false. What does your fear teach you?

 

[edthecynic]

of course thats utter lunacy !!! For Bill Gates and Steve Jobs to make money in a free society they have to make stuff everyone can afford! Have nots cannot afford to make the rich, rich. Do you understand now?? And, the beauty of capitalism is that if you make too much money you inspire competition until eventually your profits are reduced to $ 0. This is why 10,000 companies go bankrupt each month due to natural capitalist regulation.

Welcome to your first lesson n Econ 101!! This has been a great day for you!!

The end result of Capitalism is monopoly.

of course if that was true you'd be able to say why. You're a useful idiot Marxist without a clue about who's making you say the things you say.

Because as you have admitted competition is an essential ingredient in Capitalism which results in the losers in the competition going bankrupt thus eliminating the competition. You don't even understand the stuff you post.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Because as you have admitted competition is an essential ingredient in Capitalism which results in the losers in the competition going bankrupt thus eliminating the competition. You don't even understand the stuff you post.

dear, when one competitor goes bankrupt 2 others take their place. This is why there are 40 million corporations after 250 years of capitalism. Sorry.

 

[edthecynic]

Because as you have admitted competition is an essential ingredient in Capitalism which results in the losers in the competition going bankrupt thus eliminating the competition. You don't even understand the stuff you post.

dear, when one competitor goes bankrupt 2 others take their place. This is why there are 40 million corporations after 250 years of capitalism. Sorry.

 

[edthecynic]

Because as you have admitted competition is an essential ingredient in Capitalism which results in the losers in the competition going bankrupt thus eliminating the competition. You don't even understand the stuff you post.

dear, when one competitor goes bankrupt 2 others take their place. This is why there are 40 million corporations after 250 years of capitalism. Sorry.

If the market could not support the one competitor, what makes you think it will suddenly support two?

Competition is a sin, therefore you must destroy it.
John D. Rockefeller

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Because as you have admitted competition is an essential ingredient in Capitalism which results in the losers in the competition going bankrupt thus eliminating the competition. You don't even understand the stuff you post.

dear, when one competitor goes bankrupt 2 others take their place. This is why there are 40 million corporations after 250 years of capitalism. Sorry.

dear we can all post links!! Cant the liberal express herself??

 

[edthecynic]

dear, when one competitor goes bankrupt 2 others take their place. This is why there are 40 million corporations after 250 years of capitalism. Sorry.

dear we can all post links!! Cant the liberal express herself??

When you just make shit up, you get a link.
What does your fear tell you!