Facts about the Jewish Nation

[jillian]

America *gave* Israel weapons? You mean sold, right?

Same as they gave weapons to Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and the palestinians. You complaining about that?

Of course not...because jews are supposed to die and not defend themselves.

 

[Reality]

You don't think attributing that particular rabbi's viewpoint to Jews, in general, isn't anti-semitic.

Gee... if I had to bet, I'd say if I said all Muslims were terrorists you'd be among the first to say that was anti-muslim and terrorists represent only a small minority.

So yes, it was anti-semitic.

As to your other question, I assume you're referring to the attack on the King David Hotel which was the base of British military operations at the time. So terrorists? Not by definition since terrorism requires targeting civilians (not killing some civilians collaterally).

Was the colonial army terrorists?

Ah the collateral damage argument. If you bomb a place where you know civilians are but also kill someone in a uniform in the meantime the murder is justified.

The King David Hotel is a rather stark example, because the pimp Begin, a terrorist who the Israeli people elected as prime minister before his administration provided support for one of the most horrible terrorist attacks in modern times (he was thankfully chased out of office for his crimes by the very noble peace movement in Israel) was just fine with killing the Jews that worked in the building.

But there are others. Deir Yassin. I guess the children whom were thrown into wells were dangerous or had just mysteriously appeared there. I guess the Irgun terrorist organization inflated the numbers of dead not for striking panic into the Arabs (which is what they actually later said) and thus TERRORIZING the wider population, but was for some noble and peace loving reason.

We can play the tit for tat game all you would like. There are plenty of acts of terrorism on both sides for a long time.

What it comes down to is Israel is a state via terror and the Palestinian movement is trying to erect a state via terror. There isn't much to respect from the leadership of either side (excluding Rabin, who turned from a terrorist into a man of peace before the right wing assassinated him). But I do support enfranchisement on both sides through something resembling a democratic process. You, quite clearly, do not.

 

[Reality]

Palistinians don't belong living in Israel any more than I belong living in Belarus.

And that's where the anti-semitism comes in. It's not about having no where else to go. It's about holding Israeli's to a standard different from any other people

Generally, when someone wins land in defensive battle, they keep it.

You will never get any resolution that subjugates Jews to Arabs. Two states, side by side? Yes. But the pals and their boys in Hamas don't want that.

As for hte misstatements, I guess it depends on whether you've learned about middle east politics from the deciples of the great palestinian educator (propagandist).... or from people who know what they're talking about.

You know, the same people who spout trash like "jews run everything'....

The exploitation of anti semitism is really just disgusting.

 

[dilloduck]

America *gave* Israel weapons? You mean sold, right?

Same as they gave weapons to Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon and the palestinians. You complaining about that?

Of course not...because jews are supposed to die and not defend themselves.

no --we GAVE them all weapons. We just make sure Israel has more. Now Isreal is getting pretty good at making and exporting weapons.

 

[dilloduck]

The exploitation of anti semitism is really just disgusting.

Similar to Sharpton and Jacksons exploitation of racism.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The exploitation of anti semitism is really just disgusting.

The Jews will never allow palastinians to become citizens. Asking for it is a waste of time. Just as we would never allow a hostile population that exceeded our own to become US Citizens.

The Arabs that DID stay in Israel are citizens with all the same protections as Jews. They serve in every field and every walk of life there.

The ONLY thing preventing a two State solution is the terrorists on the Arab side. They do NOT want a two State solution. They want Israel destroyed and the Jews killed or driven out.

You want movement on peace? quit supporting terrorists who have as their reason for existing the murder of every Jew. Stop supporting Terrorists that want Israel to cease to exist.

Pretty damn simple concept. Israel has tried for YEARS now to get the Arabs to form and run their own Country. They GIVE them Money to do so. There are two sides, one wants peace, the other wants genocide. And people like you keep them going.

 

[Reality]

no --we GAVE them all weapons. We just make sure Israel has more. Now Isreal is getting pretty good at making and exporting weapons.

The US also GIVES them a billion a year.

 

[Reality]

The Jews will never allow palastinians to become citizens. Asking for it is a waste of time. Just as we would never allow a hostile population that exceeded our own to become US Citizens.

The Arabs that DID stay in Israel are citizens with all the same protections as Jews. They serve in every field and every walk of life there.

The ONLY thing preventing a two State solution is the terrorists on the Arab side. They do NOT want a two State solution. They want Israel destroyed and the Jews killed or driven out.

You want movement on peace? quit supporting terrorists who have as their reason for existing the murder of every Jew. Stop supporting Terrorists that want Israel to cease to exist.

Pretty damn simple concept. Israel has tried for YEARS now to get the Arabs to form and run their own Country. They GIVE them Money to do so. There are two sides, one wants peace, the other wants genocide. And people like you keep them going.

Thanks for the talking points. Now reality.

Both sides are pressured into truces or cease fires or some sort of deescalation in violence. And all is well and we are gonna play peace now. Then something happens. Israel decided to drop a bomb on a city street and kill somebody who they think was involved in some killing some time bla bla bla. So then one of the fractured Palestinian groups start lobbing rockets over the border and then it goes to shit... basically what happened last week. Not to say the Israelis always start it, but something stupid happens and everyone starts flexing their muscles. Aside from Abbas, who is basically marginalized, the right wing is rather firmly in control on both sides. They don't want peace, so they sabotage the process and then the wider populations start clamoring for bloodshed. The two people are remarkably the same.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Thanks for the talking points. Now reality.

Both sides are pressured into truces or cease fires or some sort of deescalation in violence. And all is well and we are gonna play peace now. Then something happens. Israel decided to drop a bomb on a city street and kill somebody who they think was involved in some killing some time bla bla bla. So then one of the fractured Palestinian groups start lobbing rockets over the border and then it goes to shit... basically what happened last week. Not to say the Israelis always start it, but something stupid happens and everyone starts flexing their muscles. Aside from Abbas, who is basically marginalized, the right wing is rather firmly in control on both sides. They don't want peace, so they sabotage the process and then the wider populations start clamoring for bloodshed. The two people are remarkably the same.

I suggest you review your FACTS. Israel has never broken a ceasefire until the other side did so repeatedly. Israel has never broken an agreement till forced to by the murderous actions of the Terrorists.

 

[editec]

Thanks for the talking points. Now reality.

Both sides are pressured into truces or cease fires or some sort of deescalation in violence. And all is well and we are gonna play peace now. Then something happens. Israel decided to drop a bomb on a city street and kill somebody who they think was involved in some killing some time bla bla bla. So then one of the fractured Palestinian groups start lobbing rockets over the border and then it goes to shit... basically what happened last week. Not to say the Israelis always start it, but something stupid happens and everyone starts flexing their muscles. Aside from Abbas, who is basically marginalized, the right wing is rather firmly in control on both sides. They don't want peace, so they sabotage the process and then the wider populations start clamoring for bloodshed. The two people are remarkably the same.

Yeah, that pretty much desribes it, I think.

There are vested interests on BOTH sides who are not willing to allow peace to happen. Innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians pay the price.

The levels of Jew hating and Arab hating (ironically both are anti-Semitism, BTW) manifesting here is truly disgusting.

Racist asshats on both sides, you all ought to grow the hell up.

You both come at these issues with your half truthes and your outright historical lies and then you demand that we cower before you rightous racist indignations or you'll call us jew haters or jew lovers?.

Freaking morons, go fuck yourselves.

 

[Reality]

I suggest you review your FACTS. Israel has never broken a ceasefire until the other side did so repeatedly. Israel has never broken an agreement till forced to by the murderous actions of the Terrorists.

Aug 19 2006 cross border raid into Lebanon breaking ceasefire of Aug 14. Thanks for playing.

 

[jillian]

Aug 19 2006 cross border raid into Lebanon breaking ceasefire of Aug 14. Thanks for playing.

after hezbollah rockets sent into Israel....

Thank *you* for playing... do study up some.

 

[Reality]

after hezbollah rockets sent into Israel....

Thank *you* for playing... do study up some.

I know you think you are both the intellectual and moral high ground here, but unfortunately if you had done a quick search you would have learned that no rockets were fired from the 14th to the 19th and that the Israeli incursion allegedly was aimed at preventing Hizballah from receiving a weapons shipment. Somehow the Israelis didn't find any weapons but did manage to kill a few people, which really should surprise no one.

Make up a problem and call it outside of the ceasefire. Naturally the other side reacts and then you can blame them. But when an Arab does anything and calls it outside the cease fire its cause for rolling tanks over houses.

 

[Reality]

1. Israel became a state circa 1030 B.C., more than two millennia before Islam.

Very good young skywalker. Judaism is in fact the first of the monotheistic religions. Of course most Jews were expelled from Jerusalem in 596 B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar, a tyrant and colonialist by any modern standard. See that was wrong too, just as the purging of some Palestinians and the refusal to allow the rest to return to their homes after the '48 war. If Zionists would like to model themselves after the Jewish people's greatest oppressor next to Hitler, they deserve no support.

2. Arabs from Israel first began to be called “Palestinians” in 1967 by Yasser Arafat and other Arab leaders, two decades after modern Israeli statehood.

Well at least you got all the way to #2 before stating a blatant falsehood. Herodotus wrote of an area of Syria called Palestine some 2467 years before 1967. While the people may not have taken their nationalistic identity from Palestine, they certainly would have qualified as residents of the area of Syria called Palestine. Romans also referred to it as such. There was no Jordan until the colonialist Brits and French created it, so I guess that means there is no Jordanians. Or no Lebanese. Or no Americans, since this is tribal native land.

3. After conquering the land in about 1250 B.C., Jews ruled it for more than 1,300 years and have maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

Not so much. Nebuchadnezzar. Not that his crimes make it right, but its just reality.

4. For over 3,000 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (East) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

It was in fact the administrative capital of the region called Palestine under the Ottomans. Palestine had its own governor. Sorry again.

5. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Qur’an.

But Al-Ard Al-Muqadassah, or the "Holy Land" is mentioned seven times in the Qur'an, once in reference to Moses and the Israelites.

6. King David founded Jerusalem; Mohammed never set foot in it.

And George Washington never visited Hawaii. Do you have a point?

7. Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

As already said in this thread.

Mohammedians originally prayed in the direction of Jerusalem. Humans have only one head and one arse, that is anatomy!

8. In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence—some 70% of them fled without ever being ordered by Israel to leave, most of those without ever having seen an Israeli soldier.

First of all, there is no way you can even begin to estimate 70%. And I guess purging 30% is the moral high ground? And for the record, Rabin wrote explicitly about Ben Gurion ordering, with a flick of the wrist, the expulsion of Arabs. It was censored by the oh-so transparent and democratic Israeli military, but later leaked.

9. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

You mean when Palestinian refugees were flooding into those same countries? Again, where is the moral high ground?

10. Some 650,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while about 850,000 Jews were forced to leave Muslim countries.

"Left" and "forced to leave" is nice juxtaposition. Some left on their own and some were forced out on both sides. Nice attempt at objectiveness.

11. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees from Palestine were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War II, they are the only group to have never integrated with their coreligionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than New Jersey.

And expansion continues to this day. I don't think anyone has any use for the Maronite fascists in Lebanon or the Jordanians. But hey, nice race baiting.

12. There are 22 Arab countries (with 800 times the land mass of Israel), not counting the Palestinian territories. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

That is just laughable. Should every religious minority use this argument? Should the Scientologists be able to just declare then need their own country in Oregon because they don't have a state?

If you honestly believe that Arabs started all five wars you need a new reading list. If you call the Israelis being the whore of the Brits and French during the Suez Crisis the Arabs starting it, or being ordered to leave "or else" by Eisenhower a victory, then you do that. Also, don't eat any more of the bad acid.

13. The Fatah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel has agreed under several proposals to cede most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian Authority, and even supported the arming of its police force after the Oslo Accords in 1993.

And the Zionist movement has never defined what "the promised land" actually is or where "Greater Israel" will stop.

Since Shas has 12 seats in Knesset and supports the "Greater Israel" idea,

as well as NRP which specifically states that "there will be one state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea" with its 9 seats,

and UTJ with its 6 seats also opposes any Palestinian state and also claims that "any Jew has the right to live anywhere in Israel," which means all of British mandated Palestine,

it seems like there are plenty of crazies on the Israeli side who support the destruction of the idea of a Palestinian state.

14. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths and maintained in good order at Israel’s expense.

Oh really? More often then not Muslim men older than their middle teens are not even permitted in Jerusalem, never mind to the holy sites. Yes, vandalizing holy sites it stupid and wrong, but Israelis hardly have the moral high ground.

15. Out of 175 United Nations Security Council resolutions up to 1990, 97 were against Israel; out of 690 General Assembly resolutions, 429 were against Israel;

Have your cake and eat it too? Either the resolutions are legitimate or the British mandate wasn't legitimate. You don't get it both ways.

16. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the Temple Mount and Western Wall,

There is this expectation of the Israelis that they will act as the liberal modernists they claim to be. You know, democracy, human rights, international law. Nobody has that expectation of the Jordanians. But if you want to look to the Jordanians for how to act, expect to be criticized.

 

[Care4all]

after hezbollah rockets sent into Israel....

Thank *you* for playing... do study up some.

wasn't it AFTER hizbollah kidnapped a soldier of theirs....???

then the rocket fire.....on to them?


memory could be failing me on this, but i think hizbollah kidnapping an israeli soldier started it???

care

 

[Reality]

wasn't it AFTER hizbollah kidnapped a soldier of theirs....???

then the rocket fire.....on to them?


memory could be failing me on this, but i think hizbollah kidnapping an israeli soldier started it???

care

that is much closer to reality than Jilian would have portrayed.

Yes, Hezzbollah killed three soldiers and captured two others on July 12 2006. There was a 33 day war which was brought to a cease fire on Aug 14. On Aug 19 the Israelis did what I described above.