Fact Checking The Debate-What A Surprise!

[kiwiman127]

Below are links to various fact checking results from last night's debate.
Not surprisingly, both Obama and Romney were loose with facts to the point of being dead wrong about some facts. This certainly shows exactly how weak our choices for president actually are. Here we have someone who has president for almost four years and another guy that has been running for president for almost 8 years, yet they are both clueless.

FACT CHECK: Presidential Debate Missteps
FACT CHECK: Presidential Debate Missteps - US News and World Report

Presidential debate fact check: President Obama, Mitt Romney don't tell the whole truth
Presidential debate fact check: President Obama, Mitt Romney don't tell the whole truth - NY Daily News

Obama vs. Romney Presidential Debate Fact-Check: Who Lied?
Obama vs. Romney Presidential Debate Fact-Check: Who Lied? - The Daily Beast

The Obama-Romney debate fact-check: Who told the biggest whoppers?
The Obama-Romney debate fact-check: Who told the biggest whoppers?

FACT CHECK: How Obama's, Romney's statements stack up

Read more: FACT CHECK: How Obama's, Romney's statements stack up - The Denver Post FACT CHECK: How Obama's, Romney's statements stack up - The Denver Post

Factchecking the first presidential debate of 2012
Factchecking the first presidential debate - The Washington Post

Fact Check: Some Misleading Statements from Last Night’s Presidential Debate
Fact Check: Some Misleading Statements from Last Night’s Presidential Debate | Fox News Insider

Debate Fact Check: How Obama, Romney Statements Hold Up
Debate Fact Check: How Obama, Romney Statements Hold Up
===================================

I tried to use more or less non-partisan resources plus Fox News and the HuffPost lol.

 

[The Rabbi]

OBAMA: "I've proposed a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. ... The way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 in additional revenue."

THE FACTS: In promising $4 trillion, Obama is already banking more than $2 trillion from legislation enacted along with Republicans last year that cut agency operating budgets and capped them for 10 years. He also claims more than $800 billion in war savings that would occur anyway. And he uses creative bookkeeping to hide spending on Medicare reimbursements to doctors. Take those "cuts" away and Obama's $2.50/$1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases shifts significantly more in the direction of tax increases.

Obama's February budget offered proposals that would cut deficits over the coming decade by $2 trillion instead of $4 trillion. Of that deficit reduction, tax increases accounted for $1.6 trillion. He promises relatively small spending cuts of $597 billion from big federal benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. He also proposed higher spending on infrastructure projects.

___

ROMNEY: Obama's health care plan "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don't like that idea."

THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama's health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.

Romney seems to be resurrecting the assertion that Obama's law would lead to rationing, made famous by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's widely debunked allegation that it would create "death panels."

Read more: Presidential debate fact check: President Obama, Mitt Romney don't tell the whole truth - NY Daily News

See, this is why "fact checking" has such a poor reputation. Obama out and out lied in his response. He promises $4T in cuts. But this is not additional cuts. This is counting past cuts already agreed to. He might as well include cuts in Clinton's budget. It is a lie.
Romney otoh did not lie. If the board is explicitly prohibited from rationing care, etc, how the hell are they supposed to control costs? Duh. It's a smoke screen. Of course they will ration care, no matter what they call it. That has been the MO for every similar organization, like NICE in England.

 

[The Infidel]

*oh brother*

 

[AmyNation]

I admit I was suprised Romney went with the death panel meme, however I was even more suprised Obama just let him roll with it and didn't take the opportunity to slams him on it.

 

[kiwiman127]

*oh brother*

What?

 

[TakeAStepBack]

FactCheck.org : Dubious Denver Debate Declarations

 

[Oddball]

It's getting almost as bad as the aftermath of the Green Bay vs. Seattle game!

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. Well, don't think the debates are going to change this significantly;

President Obama 269 Governor Romney 181

RealClearPolitics - 2012 Election Maps - Electoral Map

 

[The Rabbi]

I admit I was suprised Romney went with the death panel meme, however I was even more suprised Obama just let him roll with it and didn't take the opportunity to slams him on it.

He went with it because it's true. The only way to ration care is to figure out who gets it and who doesn't. This has been the theme of many of Obama's advisors, like Cass Sunstein and Emanuel's brother.

 

[Bfgrn]

OBAMA: "I've proposed a specific $4 trillion deficit reduction plan. ... The way we do it is $2.50 for every cut, we ask for $1 in additional revenue."

THE FACTS: In promising $4 trillion, Obama is already banking more than $2 trillion from legislation enacted along with Republicans last year that cut agency operating budgets and capped them for 10 years. He also claims more than $800 billion in war savings that would occur anyway. And he uses creative bookkeeping to hide spending on Medicare reimbursements to doctors. Take those "cuts" away and Obama's $2.50/$1 ratio of spending cuts to tax increases shifts significantly more in the direction of tax increases.

Obama's February budget offered proposals that would cut deficits over the coming decade by $2 trillion instead of $4 trillion. Of that deficit reduction, tax increases accounted for $1.6 trillion. He promises relatively small spending cuts of $597 billion from big federal benefit programs like Medicare and Medicaid. He also proposed higher spending on infrastructure projects.

___

ROMNEY: Obama's health care plan "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have. I don't like that idea."

THE FACTS: Romney is referring to the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a panel of experts that would have the power to force Medicare cuts if costs rise beyond certain levels and Congress fails to act. But Obama's health care law explicitly prohibits the board from rationing care, shifting costs to retirees, restricting benefits or raising the Medicare eligibility age. So the board doesn't have the power to dictate to doctors what treatments they can prescribe.

Romney seems to be resurrecting the assertion that Obama's law would lead to rationing, made famous by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin's widely debunked allegation that it would create "death panels."

Read more: Presidential debate fact check: President Obama, Mitt Romney don't tell the whole truth - NY Daily News

See, this is why "fact checking" has such a poor reputation. Obama out and out lied in his response. He promises $4T in cuts. But this is not additional cuts. This is counting past cuts already agreed to. He might as well include cuts in Clinton's budget. It is a lie.
Romney otoh did not lie. If the board is explicitly prohibited from rationing care, etc, how the hell are they supposed to control costs? Duh. It's a smoke screen. Of course they will ration care, no matter what they call it. That has been the MO for every similar organization, like NICE in England.

Romney DID lie...and the FACTS are public domain...

IPAB, which was created by the Affordable Care Act. Here’s how IPAB works:

• 15 experts including doctors and patient advocates would be nominated by the President and confirmed by the Senate to serve on IPAB.

• IPAB would recommend policies to Congress to help Medicare provide better care at lower costs. This could include ideas on coordinating care, getting rid of waste in the system, incentivizing best practices, and prioritizing primary care.

• IPAB is specifically prohibited by law from recommending any policies that ration care, raise taxes, increase premiums or cost-sharing, restrict benefits or modify who is eligible for Medicare.

• Congress then has the power to accept or reject these recommendations. If Congress rejects the recommendations, and Medicare spending exceeds specific targets, Congress must either enact policies that achieve equivalent savings or let the Secretary of Health and Human Services follow IPAB’s recommendations.

The Facts About the Independent Payment Advisory Board

 

[Oddball]

White House blog...LMAO!

 

[The Rabbi]

The intentional blindness is palpable. The only way to control costs outside of a market system is rationing. And every other similar system has ended up with rationing.
Once again, the Obama Administration wants to do the same thing over and over and hope for a different result.

 

[there4eyeM]

FACT: America is faced (yawn again) with really no choice, or at best one poor way forward or another. DemReps.
It is clear that the DemRep party has no interest at all in a second party. It is so opposed to the concept that it has created the myth of a two party system. It then insists that its two wings, Dem and Rep, are two any other party is a third party (which just has negative connotations in American politics for some reason).
Only entrenched power is represented by the DemReps. People may vote, but it is clear, by who benefits most, who the real constituency is.
The majority of Americans need a party for which they are the constituency.