FACT CHECK: No 'death panel' in health care bill

[Gudrid]

Just because one insurer turns you down does not necessarily mean they all will.

It does if you're born with a degenerative bone disease. Or if you have a bunch of other conditions.

 

[drsmith1072]

If I were you, I would change doctors. At least right now you have that choice...not so sure for the future, though.

I have to go the the doctors my insurance will cover and the last time I tried to switch the doctor I went to used labs that were not covered and I had to pay out of pocket to cover the cost. So I went with the lesser of two evil's.

I live in a fairly small town of 16,000, my insurance has about 30 doctors in the area I can choose from. I know that not all of your doctors has a waiting period like the one your going to. Maybe an HMO, I personally have not and would not use them.

HUH?? How do YOU "know" what doctors in my area and their waiting periods are like??

 

[drsmith1072]

If I were you, I would change doctors. At least right now you have that choice...not so sure for the future, though.

Fear mongering at it's best.

You show me in that 1000+ page bill where I'm wrong in my assumption. This is the problem with the bill, it's convoluted with the wording. No one knows for sure what is and isn't in the bill. Obama doesn't know for sure, the other politicians don't know for sure, and yet you do? I don't know for sure, but like I have stated all along, I don't trust the government to get it right.

So you make the insinuation that in the future you may not have a choice to change doctors and then instead of offering one shred of evidence to back up your insinuation you demand that others prove you wrong?? Sorry but I believe that if you make the claim then the burden of proof is on YOU.

If you don't know for sure and can't offer any evidence to substantiate your insinuation then the only thing you are doing is engaging in fear mongering.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Fear mongering at it's best.

You show me in that 1000+ page bill where I'm wrong in my assumption. This is the problem with the bill, it's convoluted with the wording. No one knows for sure what is and isn't in the bill. Obama doesn't know for sure, the other politicians don't know for sure, and yet you do? I don't know for sure, but like I have stated all along, I don't trust the government to get it right.

So you make the insinuation that in the future you may not have a choice to change doctors and then instead of offering one shred of evidence to back up your insinuation you demand that others prove you wrong?? Sorry but I believe that if you make the claim then the burden of proof is on YOU.

If you don't know for sure and can't offer any evidence to substantiate your insinuation then the only thing you are doing is engaging in fear mongering.

The argument isn't really about what doctor you can see.

The argument here is that the bill that is supposed to give us more choice and more competition does just the opposite.

It will be impossible to keep the insurance you have now and you will be forced to purchase a "government approved" policy even if that policy is more expensive than the one you have now, even if the minimum mandated coverage contains a bunch or stuff you don't need.

This bill requires you to prove you have had "acceptable" insurance and if you don't have the type of policy the government wants you to have, you will be slapped with an additional income tax of 2.5%.

If that isn't enough to make you balk and realize the president and your so called represntatives are flat out lying to you, I don't know what will.

 

[Meister]

I have to go the the doctors my insurance will cover and the last time I tried to switch the doctor I went to used labs that were not covered and I had to pay out of pocket to cover the cost. So I went with the lesser of two evil's.

I live in a fairly small town of 16,000, my insurance has about 30 doctors in the area I can choose from. I know that not all of your doctors has a waiting period like the one your going to. Maybe an HMO, I personally have not and would not use them.

HUH?? How do YOU "know" what doctors in my area and their waiting periods are like??

So your saying all the doctors in your area have wait times of 2 hours huh?
Where do you live in Canada? If so...I apologize, I thought you were in the US.

 

[Meister]

Fear mongering at it's best.

You show me in that 1000+ page bill where I'm wrong in my assumption. This is the problem with the bill, it's convoluted with the wording. No one knows for sure what is and isn't in the bill. Obama doesn't know for sure, the other politicians don't know for sure, and yet you do? I don't know for sure, but like I have stated all along, I don't trust the government to get it right.

So you make the insinuation that in the future you may not have a choice to change doctors and then instead of offering one shred of evidence to back up your insinuation you demand that others prove you wrong?? Sorry but I believe that if you make the claim then the burden of proof is on YOU.

If you don't know for sure and can't offer any evidence to substantiate your insinuation then the only thing you are doing is engaging in fear mongering.

I'm insinuating that you don't know, and I don't either. I'm telling you that I don't trust my own government in these matters, and I have good reason not to. You call it what you want, but I call it stupidity if you don't question healthcare reform like this.

 

[drsmith1072]

HUH?? How do YOU "know" what doctors in my area and their waiting periods are like??

So your saying all the doctors in your area have wait times of 2 hours huh?
Where do you live in Canada? If so...I apologize, I thought you were in the US.

I don't know and the FACT is that neither do you so you cannot HONESTLY say with any degree of certainty what the wait times at the doctor's offices in my area are like.

FACT is that you claimed to "KNOW" and FACT is that you don't.

 

[Meister]

So your saying all the doctors in your area have wait times of 2 hours huh?
Where do you live in Canada? If so...I apologize, I thought you were in the US.

I don't know and the FACT is that neither do you so you cannot HONESTLY say with any degree of certainty what the wait times at the doctor's offices in my area are like.

FACT is that you claimed to "KNOW" and FACT is that you don't.

Dr. Smith....try getting out there and shop around...the odds are in my favor on this and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to go with the odds. Or, just sit back and bitch about it on a public forum on how bad you have it with the wait time.

 

[drsmith1072]

You show me in that 1000+ page bill where I'm wrong in my assumption. This is the problem with the bill, it's convoluted with the wording. No one knows for sure what is and isn't in the bill. Obama doesn't know for sure, the other politicians don't know for sure, and yet you do? I don't know for sure, but like I have stated all along, I don't trust the government to get it right.

So you make the insinuation that in the future you may not have a choice to change doctors and then instead of offering one shred of evidence to back up your insinuation you demand that others prove you wrong?? Sorry but I believe that if you make the claim then the burden of proof is on YOU.

If you don't know for sure and can't offer any evidence to substantiate your insinuation then the only thing you are doing is engaging in fear mongering.

I'm insinuating that you don't know, and I don't either. I'm telling you that I don't trust my own government in these matters, and I have good reason not to. You call it what you want, but I call it stupidity if you don't question healthcare reform like this.

How are you insinuating that I don't know when this question was about YOUR insinuation that in the future we may not have a choice, which is fear mongering at its worst??

Fact is that you made the insinuation and instead of offering anything REAL to substantiate your insinuation you tell others to prove you wrong. Then you go into more fear mongering about how you can't trust the government. LOL

BTW there is a difference between questioning the plan and making shite up to create fear of something that you can't prove exists.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I don't know and the FACT is that neither do you so you cannot HONESTLY say with any degree of certainty what the wait times at the doctor's offices in my area are like.

FACT is that you claimed to "KNOW" and FACT is that you don't.

Dr. Smith....try getting out there and shop around...the odds are in my favor on this and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to go with the odds. Or, just sit back and bitch about it on a public forum on how bad you have it with the wait time.

I thought Dr Smith was a rocket scientist, or at least an astronaut

 

[drsmith1072]

I don't know and the FACT is that neither do you so you cannot HONESTLY say with any degree of certainty what the wait times at the doctor's offices in my area are like.

FACT is that you claimed to "KNOW" and FACT is that you don't.

Dr. Smith....try getting out there and shop around...the odds are in my favor on this and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to go with the odds. Or, just sit back and bitch about it on a public forum on how bad you have it with the wait time.

So, you make an assertion that you can't prove, I call you out for it and you take it personally and start trying to attack me? LOL

The thing is that the "bitching" was started by a poster trying to talk about healthcare being run like the DMV and I offered my recent personal experiences with the DMV and my doctor and drew a comparison. Then you chimed in to try and tell me that you "know" about my situation when you don't have a clue.

 

[Meister]

Dr. Smith....try getting out there and shop around...the odds are in my favor on this and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to go with the odds. Or, just sit back and bitch about it on a public forum on how bad you have it with the wait time.

So, you make an assertion that you can't prove, I call you out for it and you take it personally and start trying to attack me? LOL

The thing is that the "bitching" was started by a poster trying to talk about healthcare being run like the DMV and I offered my recent personal experiences with the DMV and my doctor and drew a comparison. Then you chimed in to try and tell me that you "know" about my situation when you don't have a clue.

What I'm saying is that you have an unique situation and isn't the norm. That long of a waiting line is just unacceptable. I wasn't attacking you on that. That is all I was trying to get across to you.

 

[drsmith1072]

So, you make an assertion that you can't prove, I call you out for it and you take it personally and start trying to attack me? LOL

The thing is that the "bitching" was started by a poster trying to talk about healthcare being run like the DMV and I offered my recent personal experiences with the DMV and my doctor and drew a comparison. Then you chimed in to try and tell me that you "know" about my situation when you don't have a clue.

What I'm saying is that you have an unique situation and isn't the norm. That long of a waiting line is just unacceptable. I wasn't attacking you on that. That is all I was trying to get across to you.

That's nice and all but the point is that you don't know for certain so you can't honestly make that assertion with any degree of certainty. You can ASSUME and that's all you can and have done.
Almost every time I have been to the doctor, any doctor (with the exception of surgeons) they have at least double booked the appointment so I and another patient had to wait. Based on my experience it is common practice for doctor's offices to double book appointments.
I have tried other doctors in my area and ended with similar or worse results such as out of pocket expenses that were covered at my current doctor. So in the end I decided to go with the devil I know best.
Oh and again I wasn't "bitching" about it as you claimed I was offering a comparison in reference to another poster's claim about the DMV and healthcare.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I will agree Meister, that an informed electorate has a responsibilty to question government. I advocate that. What I don't advocate is lying to try to muster up fear just because you want to give a "black eye" to a political opponent.

It's not new and both sides have done it.

I don't like it and I think it makes good, responsive government harder - not easier - to achieve.

 

[DiamondDave]

the health insurance reform DOES HAVE MEASURES to break down the insurance walls between states...it is a good measure in the bill to reducing costs...

In the midst of the 999+ other pages of pure bullshit that does not need to be in there....

And the healthcare INDUSTRY is indeed just another service that people perform as their jobs and that companies derive their profit on... just because you FEEL you NEED healthcare taken away from your personal responsibility, does not make it something that others or the government is supposed to just hand to you at the expense of others

Okay Dokay Davey...What's more important to ya?...your house or your body and it's well being?

How would you feel about a "private fire department"? Of course the rich and thier houses would have to be saved first because they could afford the most expensive policies.

No one in thier right mind would advocate for a privately owned fire department.

What's more important Dave?...your house or you?

1) What is important to me is something PERSONAL.... just as your own upkeep of YOURSELF is something personal.... also try looking at and understanding Maslow's hierarchy of needs

2) How do I feel about a private fire department that an individual or community pays for itself??... all well and good and fine with me... nobody in their right mind would deny the personal and individual freedom for someone to pay for one if they so choose to, over having a publicly provided service

3) You and the rest of your pathetic ilk have never once stated how you are owed (or anyone is owed) the fruits of someone else's labor for their own personal benefit and need

 

[DiamondDave]

the health insurance reform DOES HAVE MEASURES to break down the insurance walls between states...it is a good measure in the bill to reducing costs...

In the midst of the 999+ other pages of pure bullshit that does not need to be in there....

And the healthcare INDUSTRY is indeed just another service that people perform as their jobs and that companies derive their profit on... just because you FEEL you NEED healthcare taken away from your personal responsibility, does not make it something that others or the government is supposed to just hand to you at the expense of others

Double wrong, double D. The health care industry serves the public interest as well as its own pocket, and, yes, the government has every right to regulate it when it gets stupid and greedy, which hurts the public interest.

Triple wrong...
1) An industry is not something of conscious that has an ability to 'serve'... but nice typical liberal ploy to associate a human emotion to a non-human entity
2) The federal government does not have every right to regulate on the basis of 'stupidity' or 'greed'... but nice second attempt at putting human emotion into the situation
3) Your healthcare is not public interest.. it is in your private interest

 

[skookerasbil]

So you make the insinuation that in the future you may not have a choice to change doctors and then instead of offering one shred of evidence to back up your insinuation you demand that others prove you wrong?? Sorry but I believe that if you make the claim then the burden of proof is on YOU.

If you don't know for sure and can't offer any evidence to substantiate your insinuation then the only thing you are doing is engaging in fear mongering.

I'm insinuating that you don't know, and I don't either. I'm telling you that I don't trust my own government in these matters, and I have good reason not to. You call it what you want, but I call it stupidity if you don't question healthcare reform like this.

How are you insinuating that I don't know when this question was about YOUR insinuation that in the future we may not have a choice, which is fear mongering at its worst??

Fact is that you made the insinuation and instead of offering anything REAL to substantiate your insinuation you tell others to prove you wrong. Then you go into more fear mongering about how you can't trust the government. LOL

BTW there is a difference between questioning the plan and making shite up to create fear of something that you can't prove exists.

 

[Diuretic]

I'm insinuating that you don't know, and I don't either. I'm telling you that I don't trust my own government in these matters, and I have good reason not to. You call it what you want, but I call it stupidity if you don't question healthcare reform like this.

How are you insinuating that I don't know when this question was about YOUR insinuation that in the future we may not have a choice, which is fear mongering at its worst??

Fact is that you made the insinuation and instead of offering anything REAL to substantiate your insinuation you tell others to prove you wrong. Then you go into more fear mongering about how you can't trust the government. LOL

BTW there is a difference between questioning the plan and making shite up to create fear of something that you can't prove exists.

pictures

 

[drsmith1072]

How are you insinuating that I don't know when this question was about YOUR insinuation that in the future we may not have a choice, which is fear mongering at its worst??

Fact is that you made the insinuation and instead of offering anything REAL to substantiate your insinuation you tell others to prove you wrong. Then you go into more fear mongering about how you can't trust the government. LOL

BTW there is a difference between questioning the plan and making shite up to create fear of something that you can't prove exists.

pictures

You'll have to forgive skooks, he only has the limited intelligence to cut and paste pointless moronic pictures and he did the same when he spammed the msnbc.com message boards with them.
You are wasting your time if you are actually expecting him to provide a coherent argument. LOL

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

FACT CHECK: No 'death panel' in health care bill
AP – Tue Aug 11, 3:04 am ET
...Sarah Palin says the health care overhaul bill would set up a "death panel." Federal bureaucrats would play God, ruling on whether ailing seniors are worth enough to society to deserve life-sustaining medical care. Palin and other critics are wrong.​

OOOPS Guess what

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?_r=1&ref=robertpear

there WAS death panels in the bill after all...hmmmmm..