FAA and DHS decide a massive fire in the cargo compartment of a plane is preferable.

[SavannahMann]

In the last year there have been at least 33 fires of electronic devices in airplane cabins. None of these events have caused a loss of aircraft incident. In other words none of the planes crashed. The reason is that someone was there to put out the fire.

Airplane cargo holds have Halon gas fire suppression systems. These systems work well for most kinds of fires, but not lithium battery fires. So obviously extreme care should be used when transporting these kinds of items.

Terrorists have come up with a way to make a bomb just barely big enough to punch a hole in the plane in a laptop. Yes this has happened all of once. Not once in the last year. Just once period. So obviously the biggest threat is a lithium battery fire right?

If you said yes, you can't work for the Department of Homeland Insecurity.

U.S. to Ban Laptops in All Cabins of Flights From Europe, Officials Say

Now let's see what happens when lithium batteries start to burn in a cargo container which is then subjected to the standard fire suppression system of Halon.



Um. I don't think that fire suppression system works too well for this kind of fire.

Why does this matter? Well the DHS and FAA have announced that no laptops may be in the passenger compartment of planes coming from the Middle East or Europe. Because this way the terrorists can't set off a bomb, but those 33 fires we mentioned will be way better in the cargo compartment. Or something.

You know, where nobody can get to it and the fire will just burn out of control until the plane explodes or crashes. At least we will know we prevented a terrorist attack. We can rule that it is the fault of the laptop makers later.

God save us from the idiots who are trying to protect us.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you realize the video you showed is multiple lithium ion batteries in a shipping container like is found on FedEx and UPS type of cargo aircraft?

I don't think it shows what you intended.

 

[SavannahMann]

Did you realize the video you showed is multiple lithium ion batteries in a shipping container like is found on FedEx and UPS type of cargo aircraft?

I don't think it shows what you intended.

Those containers are hooked to the Halon system as they were for the rest the FAA conducted. If anything it would be a best case scenario since the containers are designed to minimize the spread of fire. But what is obvious is the blow out from the resulting explosion. The oxygen in the container would have been consumed fairly quickly. But the batteries burned and exploded anyway.

Now imagine a 747 with fifty laptops scattered about. Or a 380 with more than that in the hold. The Halon is pumped in and does nothing. The next laptop starts burning and the Halon is exhausted. The fire spreads and the belly tank finally ruptures. Now you have sheet metal showers with intermittent bodies.



The follow up for all the firefighting techniques is water to cool the battery. Otherwise the battery will just reignite and go back to burning furiously.

Now how do you get water into the cargo area?

On one flight the laptop exploded in an overhead bin and took three extinguishers and finally was put in a cooler with ice water and monitored.

In the cargo hold there is no one to put it into a cooler of ice water and no one can monitor it.

ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas DC-8-61 C-GMXQ Jeddah-King Abdulaziz International Airport (JED)

That airplane was brought down by a burning tire that was raised into the wheel well. All 247 people aboard died. The thing about a fire on a plane, you have to put it out quickly or you can and will die. There is no where to go, there is no escape.

South African Airways Flight 295 - Wikipedia

Once the fire gets going. You are trapped on the plane with it until you can get on the ground. It may well be you are trapped in the fire for the rest of your life.

 

[EverCurious]

Makes note to self to figure out why laptop batteries are exploding in cargo holds heh

 

[SavannahMann]

Makes note to self to figure out why laptop batteries are exploding in cargo holds heh

Boeing 787 Dreamliner battery problems - Wikipedia

The entire Boeing 767 fleet was grounded after fires from Lithium Batteries. That was in a box designed to contain any fire. The NTSB said it needed to be better designed. Once those changes were made the planes were allowed to fly.

Thermal Runaway is a well known phenomenon. When the batteries reach 300 degrees they explode. With most fires if you extinguish the flame it is out. With a substance like Lithium recognition from residual heat is a very real problem. That is why water to cool the batteries after the fire is needed. A quick spritz of CO2 or Halon pits the flame out. But the batteries reignite in a few seconds.

 

[EverCurious]

hmmm that one was a short.

The other batteries are catching fire due to weakening and subsequent puncture in the cells, apparently from overcharging, high heat, etc. I'd have to guess folks don't know how to charge their laptops as the main culprit. Not sure there's a solution to that heh

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you realize the video you showed is multiple lithium ion batteries in a shipping container like is found on FedEx and UPS type of cargo aircraft?

I don't think it shows what you intended.

Those containers are hooked to the Halon system as they were for the rest the FAA conducted. If anything it would be a best case scenario since the containers are designed to minimize the spread of fire. But what is obvious is the blow out from the resulting explosion. The oxygen in the container would have been consumed fairly quickly. But the batteries burned and exploded anyway.

Now imagine a 747 with fifty laptops scattered about. Or a 380 with more than that in the hold. The Halon is pumped in and does nothing. The next laptop starts burning and the Halon is exhausted. The fire spreads and the belly tank finally ruptures. Now you have sheet metal showers with intermittent bodies.



The follow up for all the firefighting techniques is water to cool the battery. Otherwise the battery will just reignite and go back to burning furiously.

Now how do you get water into the cargo area?

On one flight the laptop exploded in an overhead bin and took three extinguishers and finally was put in a cooler with ice water and monitored.

In the cargo hold there is no one to put it into a cooler of ice water and no one can monitor it.

ASN Aircraft accident McDonnell Douglas DC-8-61 C-GMXQ Jeddah-King Abdulaziz International Airport (JED)

That airplane was brought down by a burning tire that was raised into the wheel well. All 247 people aboard died. The thing about a fire on a plane, you have to put it out quickly or you can and will die. There is no where to go, there is no escape.

South African Airways Flight 295 - Wikipedia

Once the fire gets going. You are trapped on the plane with it until you can get on the ground. It may well be you are trapped in the fire for the rest of your life.

Those containers are NOT used on commercial passenger aircraft. It would take too damned long to pack luggage in them. As I said, UPS and FedEx type cargo carriers use those to ease loading. The only hazard is to the cargo aircraft crew.