F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

Shut the fuck up, liar.
Consistent with the number of facts in your other posts. Zero.

Tell us more abut the invincible MIG-29 that has consistently been on the losing end of any air combat against modern fighter jets? Dumbass. You're like the National Enquirer of defense tech, lots of made up stories and backtracking when busted talking out of your ass.
Those airforces don´t have the ability to maintain their aircraft properly and they barely can afford flying hours for training. Also, Russia exports downgraded Mig-29 only. A difference could be the Mig-28sy. The most countries can´t maintain the engines. Cuban Mig-21 engines go to North Korea for the overhaul.
 
Two missiles. Both were on course but one simply didn´t detonate. Your employer, Washington Bob, should have told you that people can open the links that I post.

Let's take a look at your own cite.

They intercepted classified communications that said where and when. The prepositioned their radar sites for the best detection. Using low frequency (those radar operators knew their stuff) they use the radar to detect one F-117 with it's doors open. Even the F-22 pops up on radar the second or two that his weapon bay doors are open. The radar operators know just how long they could keep their radar on to avoid detection. Again, these weren't no pilgrims. The fired "Several Missiles". Two were close enough to the target to detonate but only one did. One was enough. What part of "Several" are you having trouble with. USAF didn't stop using the F-117 after that. They adjusted after going over the scenerio and made the appropriate mission changes. No others were lost. The loss of the bird was not from the F-117, but from underestimating the enemy. Much like you are doing now.
Again you are alleging something that is not there. Several is two here, as the article describes:

"He observed the two missiles punch through the low cloud cover and head straight for his aircraft. The first passed over him, close enough to cause buffeting, but did not detonate. The second missile detonated, causing significant damage to the aircraft and causing it to tumble, out of control."

1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia

You really need to become serious in discussions. Discussions with you impossible because you are always in denial of the given facts.

This is how the F-117A was shot down in Serbia by a SA-3 (S-75) Goa SAM in 1999

Several is more than a couple. But I won't argue that with you. The fact is, they were using an antiquated long range radar that isn't used today. While they got a sense he was there at 31 miles, they got a short lock at about 8 miles and fired. They used a combination of radar, laser and eyeballs to make the hit.

What made it possible was the F-117 was wet. That enabled them to detect him. They waited until he opened his bomb doors and fired. What we learned from this is to NEVER expect a decent stealth in the rain. While a 4th gen is harder to see in the rain, the fifth gen actually degrades it stealth a bit. Hence the BS claim that the F-35 can't fly in the rain. It can but you don't go into a heavily contested area in the rain. Same goes for the F-22. Instead, you send in your 4th gen F-15/16 combo that actually benefits from the rain.

We learned that we can't fly the same mission parameters over and over. It had to be changed. They flew the F-117 like they did the F-105s during vietnam. WE lost a lot of Thuds and Pilots that way. And the Buffs were flown the same way in Vietnam. When you notice this, you move your radar and put a narrow beam to that area. A Wide Beam like is normally used is less sensitive. Somehow, they had the entire flight parameters by eavesdropping on broadcasts for the F-117. USAF made a number of errors that they should not have made. Yes, the Slavs did a fantastic job but they were helped.

About the doors. The Doors on that particular bird stayed open a full 8 seconds. When the doors are open, you aren't stealthy at that point. They got the lock and went for it and got it. Today, the weapons bay doors on both the F-35 and F-22 are open less than a second. Not long enough for you to obtain a lock.

Like everything else, it's a learning curve. The F-117 was the beginning of the learning curve. The Bird was fantastic but the serious of comedic errors that were done were the cause of the shoot down.
www.birdstrikes.com is not a reliable source when it comes to issues with US aircraft.


"In an interview this week with The Associated Press, Dani said the F-117 was detected and shot down during a moonless night — just three days into the war — by a Soviet-made SA-3 Goa surface-to-air missile.

"We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's guidance system remains a military secret.

It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani — who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade — would divulge.


"Long before the 1999 war, I took keen interest in the stealth fighter and on how it could be detected," said Dani, who has been hailed in Serbia as a war hero. "And I concluded that there are no invisible aircraft, but only less visible."


The Serb SAMs remained a potent threat throughout the conflict, forcing attacking warplanes to altitudes above 15,000 feet, where they were safe from surface-to-air missiles but far less effective in a ground attack role.

NATO won the war in June 1999, after President Slobodan Milosevic decided to withdraw his largely intact army from Kosovo, following the destruction of numerous government buildings, bridges and other infrastructure targets throughout Serbia."

USATODAY.com - Serb discusses 1999 downing of stealth

Nothing you said contridicts what I have said about the F-117. The old style ground radar they used used a longer wave than the newer stuff. They just made it a bit longer. There were many ifs that made it possible.

IF it wasn't raining and the F-117 wasn't carrying radar reflective water on it.

IF they used a more modern shorter wave radar that could go long distances

IF the F-117 wasn't flying the same profile every time

IF the serbs hadn't intercepted information of the time and place of the launch

Any one of those IF would have prevented the rest from not happening. It was a comedy of errors along with a pretty damned good Colonel with the Serbs that knew his "Sh..".
Rain, bird strike, crash...
 
Those airforces don´t have the ability to maintain their aircraft properly and they barely can afford flying hours for training. Also, Russia exports downgraded Mig-29 only. A difference could be the Mig-28sy. The most countries can´t maintain the engines. Cuban Mig-21 engines go to North Korea for the overhaul.
Eritrea didn't buy their MIG-29s from Russia.

Like I said, you have no idea what "invincible" means. It doesn't mean the term applies only when your bucket load of excuses is handy.
 
They should just relabel that button as "I am stuck and can't support my argument" instead of "funny" because that is exactly what you use it for and everyone knows it.

The plane you call invincible was repeatedly shot down in close range turning dogfight combat by Ethiopian Flankers. The MIG-29 has one of the poorest combat records of any modern jet fighter, and only an utter fool would use the word "invincible" to describe it.
 
They should just relabel that button as "I am stuck and can't support my argument" instead of "funny" because that is exactly what you use it for and everyone knows it.

The plane you call invincible was repeatedly shot down in close range turning dogfight combat by Ethiopian Flankers. The MIG-29 has one of the poorest combat records of any modern jet fighter, and only an utter fool would use the word "invincible" to describe it.

Hey, go easy on th e kid. He's entertaining.
 
F-35 stealth jet 'will not be able to fire its guns until 2019
Well yet another manonthestreet bout of dumbfuckery, just about everything you've posted about the F-35 has been proven wrong over time yet you still continue to soldier on making a bigger ass of yourself. Maybe it's time for you to step back and assess why you keep believing these "sources" you like to copy and paste from.

F-35 testers wrap up Weapons Delivery Accuracy tests > Edwards Air Force Base > News
Hamilton said the air-to-air accuracy tests finished in August with air-to-ground tests ending in October. The F-35 ITF then capped off WDA tests by completing testing on the F-35’s GAU-22 25mm gun at the beginning of December. The WDA gun tests included the Air Force’s A variant where the gun is internal carried and on the Marine Corps’ and Navy’s B and C variants, which employ a gun pod beneath the jet.
 
Belgium jumps in... against demonstrating how incredibly fucking stupid manonthestreet has been over recent years claiming intl partners were dropping out.


Belgium – F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Aircraft | The Official Home of the Defense Security Cooperation Agency

WASHINGTON, JAN. 18, 2018 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to Belgium of thirty-four (34) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing aircraft for an estimated cost of $6.53 billion. The Defense Security Cooperation Agency delivered the required certification notifying Congress of this possible sale today.

The Government of Belgium has requested to buy thirty-four (34) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft, and thirty-eight (38) Pratt & Whitney F-135 engines (34 installed, 4 spares). Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer and Intelligence/Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; Reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support.
 
“Right now, we can’t afford the sustainment costs we have on the F-35. And we’re committed to changing that,” Lord told reporters at a Jan. 31 roundtable, adding that the plane is the “most significant” program in the Department of Defense. Pentagon ‘can't afford the sustainment costs‘ on F-35, Lord says

Wow Boyinthealley, you finally hit one right. No, we can't sustain the current sustainment costs. On a new weapons system you either learn to get it under control or you get rid of the System. Sounding like a broken record, the F-15 went through the same process. Until all the original Mods were done to get it from the A to the C and the parts were manufactured in enough quantity to keep it in the air with an over 70% sortie rate. Remember, the F-15A started out with a sortie rate of 33% and less. And even today, the F-15 costs tens of millions more to buy than the F-35A.

I have had a We'll see attitude and have been proven right every step of the way. The F-35A will go onto to being a great fighter by the time it hits it's stride in 2025 when all the mods are done. They are still finding new ways to make it do other jobs and are still dreaming up new Mods for it. But by 2025 it should be done with all that. Just in time to see it's replacement go into testing.
 
Japan, which has deployed their first F-35A at Misawa Air Base, is considering greatly expanding their F-35 inventory to include both more A models and Bs to operate from shorter runways on remote islands.

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F-35B jets eyed to defend remote isles / Fighters also mulled for MSDF’s Izumo ship
As for the F-35B, the government is planning to indicate the number of aircraft to be procured in the next Medium Term Defense Program, which is to be compiled at the end of this year. It is also mulling including related expenses in the fiscal 2019 budget plan, with a view to starting the delivery of F-35Bs from around fiscal 2024, the sources said. The F-35B is likely to be defined as a successor to the F-15, the ASDF’s main fighter jet. One plan is to introduce about 20 to 40 F-35Bs, which would correspond to one to two squadrons. Tokyo is also considering increasing the number of F-35As in the next midterm defense program, according to the sources. The introduction of F-35Bs would facilitate the use of commercial airports on remote islands.

This is of course in stark contrast to Manonthestreet's repeated expert predictions about international partners dropping out. Instead countries that have actually received the jets (like Japan and Israel) and seen what they can do are already looking to get more. That is why we roll our eyes on just about everything Manonthestreet posts on this subject, he's been proven so spectacularly wrong about everything related to F-35.
 
Related info on ManOnTheStreet's international partners wisdom: Saudis Join UAE in Push to Buy F-35s as Concerns About the Jet's Computer Network Grow

On Nov. 12, 2017, Defense News reported that Saudi Arabia is now seeking entry into the F-35 club. At the 2017 Dubai Air Show, American and Emirati officials have also confirmed that the UAE is in discussions with the United States about buying as many as 24 Joint Strike Fighters. These announcements followed reports earlier in November 2017 that Germany sees the stealthy fighter jet as the “preferred choice” to replace its aging Panavia Tornados.
 
What Monoboy doesn't understand, part of the cost of the F-35 was learning how to assemble it with the right parts and allowing room for expansion.

Baked in Stealth in all external panels. This means that the panel can be removed and replaced and then sent into to Field Maintenance for repair without taking the bird out of service for long. The B-2 and F-22 have to be sent to the paint shop, painted with special paint and then cured for at least 3 days. There are two new birds that greatly benefit from the F-35 method and that is the new 6th gen and the B-21.

Leaving empty spots inside of the fuselage and wings. This greatly enables it to be easily upgraded with new systems without having to modify the main assembly. The F-35 will be the first Fighter to receive the new Laser they are playing with. The B-2 and F-22 are purpose built and really don't have the room to expand like that easily.

Having Engines that generate much more electric power than needed. This means that they can power more addons internally or externally. Hence the F-35A is progged to receive the first Fighter Laser. The EA-18G is just short of not having enough electric power to expand. Yes, you can hang all kinds of things to make it almost equal in some areas to the F-35 but the more you add, the slower, less manueverable and shorter ranged it becomes until it's just not useable. Again, the new B-21 and 6th gen fighter benefit from this.

Sensors in the Skin. The F-22 has a few sensors but not nearly as many as the F-35. The F-35 has sensors built into it's leading, trailing and side surfaces. The B-21 and 6th gen fighter expand on that and use it's whole skin for sensors.

The high cost of the F-35 will greatly reduce the cost of both the new 6th gen fighter and the B-21 making them many times better than the birds they replace. This is why when the B-21 is introduced into service, they will replace the B-2 one for one for the first 100 and then replace the B-1 one for one after that. At some point, the bomber fleet will be made up of only two bombers, the B-21 and B-52 (but that's another story we will get into later)

The new 6th gen fighters will not replace the F-16 nor the F-15. They will replace the F-22 which has a very high operation cost. Nor will the 6th gen fighter, at first, replace the F-35 but that will happen later. But the rest of the world had better enjoy the F-35 since the 6th gen won't be exportable just like the F-22 isn't.

Due to the F-35 learning curve,, the B-21 and 6th gen fighter will be here faster since they only have to expand on the systems already on the F-35 plus add a few new ones. As the F-35 matures, it becomes more deadly until it will overshadow the F-22. No, it won't dogfight any better because of the fuselage and wings but it will get other additions that you can't put on the F-22. Those systems will be already matured for the new B-21 and 6th gen fighter so the costs are lower on them per unit, cost less to fly and more. Plus the R&D costs will be much less. I predict that the F-35 is an interim fighter for the US but not for the rest of the world. And it's going to happen within 10 years.
 
Looks like Japan, who unlike manonthestreet has actually flown F-35s and sees what they can do, is doubling down.

Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters -...
Exclusive: Japan to buy at least 20 more F-35A stealth fighters - sources
The sources said buying complete aircraft from the United States, at about $100 million each, will save Japan about $30 million per airframe. The purchase will add to an earlier order for 42 of the fighters, most of which are being constructed at a “final assembly and check out” plant in Japan operated by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (7011.T), the country’s leading defense contractor.

I know manonthestreet has lost all interest in responding to this thread as actual events over time have again and again demonstrated how ridiculous all his earlier claims were, so I'm guessing we won't be treated to his explanation on how the international partners aren't all dropping out like he assured us they would.
 
F-22 Raptor vs. F-35 Lightning II ; Comparing the Roles and Capabilities of the United States’ Fifth Generation Fighters
The fighter’s elite combat role relative to the F-35 is strongly reflected in its air to air combat capabilities, with a number of leading figures in the U.S. military leadership having repeatedly stressed that the F-35 was never designed for and would struggle in an air superiority role. Former Air Force chief of staff Gen. Mark Welsh stated to this effect that the F-35 "was never designed to be the next dog fighting machine. It was designed to be the multipurpose, data-integration platform that could do all kinds of things in the air-to-ground arena.. it had an air-to-air capability, but it was not intended to be an air-superiority fighter.
 
F-22 Raptor vs. F-35 Lightning II ; Comparing the Roles and Capabilities of the United States’ Fifth Generation Fighters
The fighter’s elite combat role relative to the F-35 is strongly reflected in its air to air combat capabilities, with a number of leading figures in the U.S. military leadership having repeatedly stressed that the F-35 was never designed for and would struggle in an air superiority role. Former Air Force chief of staff Gen. Mark Welsh stated to this effect that the F-35 "was never designed to be the next dog fighting machine. It was designed to be the multipurpose, data-integration platform that could do all kinds of things in the air-to-ground arena.. it had an air-to-air capability, but it was not intended to be an air-superiority fighter.

If the Enemy were to field true 5the gen fighters this would apply. They aren't. You can try and make it look like a duck but if it can't swim then it's not a duck. No matter how agile you make it, if you go up in smoke or have to violently manuever to avoid an unseen foe then it doesn't matter anymore just how good your bird is. Okay, you stopped half of the foes missiles from their targets. That means you just lost half your defending or attacking force. The confusion factor alone will be a downer to the rest of the pilots and mistakes will ensue. At some point, you will just bug out since you have no idea of the other defending or attack force. The Russians are very capable of jamming many different signals. Ever since the old Mig-23 Jammers that pretty well jammed everything in it's path including their own signals, they have had this capability. But the F-35, like the F-22 is capable of operating on it's own using passive systems which are just as deadly as the non passive ones. It won't be until about 2025 at least that this becomes a problem. More like 2030. By then the new birds will be rolling off the assembly line that are even better by the US. So by then, Russia becomes stealthy. With Stealth you lose agility so you just lost that advantage. But the new gear from the US takes that new stealth advantage away from you again. Playing catchup on a budget like Russia is trying to do just doesn't work.
 
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan
Tokyo looks to American and indigenous alternatives as a result of the joint strike fighter’s shortcomings.
Why the F-35 Isn’t Good Enough for Japan

I read the article and found too many mistakes in it. For instance, the F-35 doesn't have the capability of using the same Long Ranged Missiles that the F-22 can. Horse Feathers. It carries 4 of them internally. It carries the most recent Amraam. And can now carry the Aim-9X on short wing pylons. It probably won't carry the Aim-9X too often since it does take away some performance and stealth but it can do it. Your whole article is written by some moron that is using information from 2014 as a source. Or even earlier.
 
Funny how Japan will probably only put them on their helo carriers and alrdy are working on a true fighter.......Slow and low...still equals dead in todays fighter combat arena......
 
Funny how Japan will probably only put them on their helo carriers and alrdy are working on a true fighter.......Slow and low...still equals dead in todays fighter combat arena......
It's incredible how you are still chanting this despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary during exercises and from pilots themselves. I mean, I get it that you were clueless a few years ago when this plane was still brand new, but to stubbornly stick to your same song and dance when it keeps on dominating other aircraft takes an impressive amount of self-delusion.

You live in a bizarro world of oppossing fighters taking no drag/range/speed penalty for the ordance, fuel tanks, and targeting pods they carry and being able to find stealth fighters that you have hilariously claimed aren't even stealthy.
 

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