F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Manonthestreet]

Yeah cause there is no such thing as missle lock or launch warnings right.....ggeeeeez

The F-22 and the F-35 can passively guide it in. No lock as you would traditionally think. Again, you are just not making any sense.

Go read the article I just posted.....You seem to know very little and accept Co propaganda as gospel

I read your article. I don't trust anyone posting in a Blog. If he were an expert, I imagine he would be posting on one of many reputable military sites. But he isn't. He's a friggin blogger. Hell that's worse than you posting in here.

Again, you aren't making any sense.

Missle specs common knowledge.....Again. You expose your ignorance

If I have a missile that can fire 1000 miles but don't see anything to fire it on, I am just a missile truck transporting missiles. Again, you are not making any sense.

You are just grabbing at straws. You remind me of an saying, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging:"

Except they will see you as soon as you fire

 

[Manonthestreet]

Helmet mounted cueing......Once there is a vector from launch they will see and be able to launch.....Active homing missles will lock themselves on.

And if it was launched from a F-18/16/15 from long range, the launching bird will be hot footing it back out of any kind of range. Now, if it comes in from 3 different directions what do you do? Tell us oh wise one, our Pilots need to share your brilliance.

Again, you aren't making an sense.

You do realize our missles have shorter range than theirs ......So again shoot at max....You just wasted your shot

You do realize that you need a lock to use that wonderful range, right?You don't make any sense still.

Active homing fire down vector and forget

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The F-22 and the F-35 can passively guide it in. No lock as you would traditionally think. Again, you are just not making any sense.

Go read the article I just posted.....You seem to know very little and accept Co propaganda as gospel

I read your article. I don't trust anyone posting in a Blog. If he were an expert, I imagine he would be posting on one of many reputable military sites. But he isn't. He's a friggin blogger. Hell that's worse than you posting in here.

Again, you aren't making any sense.

Missle specs common knowledge.....Again. You expose your ignorance

If I have a missile that can fire 1000 miles but don't see anything to fire it on, I am just a missile truck transporting missiles. Again, you are not making any sense.

You are just grabbing at straws. You remind me of an saying, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging:"

Except they will see you as soon as you fire

They can pick up the F-15 that is firing, yes. But he's too far away to prevent him from exiting the area after he fires. What he won't see is the F-35 pacifically vectoring in the attacking missiles. At that point, he is more worring about incoming than kicking it in AB to try and catch a F-15 which is much faster.

Stop digging.

 

[DrainBamage]

You claiming that a gun is useless is not born out by actual, real world experience.

I didn't claim this, in fact I said it was an advantage A-10 has. I probably claimed it was overrated, and it certainly is by retards who think a youtube video of the gun being used means every other CAS platform is useless.

In any sort of urban combat situation the precise use of the 30mm has been a battle winner. Situations where a JDAM would kill the defending troops were instead handled with the gun, successfully.

You're talking out of your ass, and you know it, your battlefield education is youtube. You honestly think in an urban CAS situation if no A-10 was available they just throw up their hands and go shucks we're stuck. Of course not.

You remind me of all those brainiacs who said modern fighters no longer needed guns because the missiles were going to change everything about air combat. Guess what. They were wrong.

You remind me of a typical older guy who's brain isn't dynamic enough to think outside his own cherished preferences of how things should be done.

 

[DrainBamage]

Once you fire gee which direction should I look ...Llllmmmaaaoooo.

Actually you have no idea where to look. If that plane is tracking you without you knowing they'll get into position to guide that missile in any way they want, you'd probably get a missile coming down on you from above. Plus planes are moving, unless it is an exactly straight on shot the vector of the attacking plane will have changed by the time you see the missile coming. AMRAAMs over long range use a ballistic trajectory and it probably isn't coming from where your radar can see it, when you know it's coming it'll probably be somewhere above you and you don't have any good information on the launching platform.

Either way you're not interested in looking if you realize a mach 4 missile has gone active on you, you're going to be evading and probably losing most of your energy in the process making the second missile an even easier kill.

Active homing fire down vector and forget

At the ranges we're talking about you're at a huge disadvantage just throwing an AMRAAM (or similar) off into a direction and hoping it's active seeker locks onto a stealthy aircraft. Missiles are small and have much less powerful radars than the planes that launch them.

Meanwhile F-35/F-22 is guiding their missile right to you, and it'll go active when it is within close range and can get a lock.

You do realize our missles have shorter range than theirs ......So again shoot at max....You just wasted your shot

The plane with the longer range sensors wins, not the longer range missile. A longer range missile is useless if you're evading someone else with first shot.

 

[DrainBamage]

Except they will see you as soon as you fire

How? Radars aren't 360 degrees and the plane that can track another without being seen can get into position to launch something that you won't see until it is well on it's way towards your plane. Many air-to-air missile kills the losing plane didn't even know a missile was coming.

 

[DrainBamage]

One thing that has been proven over and over about the brainiacs and their way of thinking is that they have been wrong every time.

I'd counter that there are always people who are stuck in the past and cannot get their tiny brains around the fact that technology changes the way combat happens. You love to bring up the premature reliance on missiles, but probably don't realize how much better a AMRAAM is than a 60s era Sparrow. Can you tell me the last time an American plane shot down an enemy plane with a gun?

And those airframes can be updated for a tenth of the cost to use all the cool stuff the F-35 has.

Oh yeah just add in an airframe designed from ground up to be extremely low observable, no problem. Every plane has room in the nose for EOTs and extra space for internal weapons carriage of two missiles and a couple 2000lb class weapons. The cameras and antennas built into the airframe we can just add those in by bolting them onto the wings and fuselage. It's so easy.

 

[DrainBamage]

Bottom line on this is even with IRST a plane needs to count on that IRST outranging the very powerful AESA radars on F-35 and F-22.

If an F-35 sees a Typhoon with IRST first it will use that advantage to get into a favorable kill position that is outside the field of view of both the Typhoon's radar and IRST. It can launch a BVRAAM and passively guide it to target. The F-35 isn't in FOV of radar or IRST so there isn't any seeing it when it launches, and it isn't detecting the passive missile to have an early track back to the launching platform. All it gets is the RWR going off when that missile goes active, and then seconds to evade and survive.

The notion that a plane having a RWR go off because an AMRAAM just went active and is seconds away would be met with cool calculations to determine the exact location of the launching platform is ridiculous, all that pilot doing is trying to live to the next minute while losing a lot of energy in the process making him even more vulnerable for the next shot.

I'm not doubting the value of IRST systems, but the belief they are some panacea to easily defeat 5th gen LO aircraft is quite misplaced, they are only an advantage if they see the F-22/F-35 first.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Bottom line on this is even with IRST a plane needs to count on that IRST outranging the very powerful AESA radars on F-35 and F-22.

If an F-35 sees a Typhoon with IRST first it will use that advantage to get into a favorable kill position that is outside the field of view of both the Typhoon's radar and IRST. It can launch a BVRAAM and passively guide it to target. The F-35 isn't in FOV of radar or IRST so there isn't any seeing it when it launches, and it isn't detecting the passive missile to have an early track back to the launching platform. All it gets is the RWR going off when that missile goes active, and then seconds to evade and survive.

The notion that a plane having a RWR go off because an AMRAAM just went active and is seconds away would be met with cool calculations to determine the exact location of the launching platform is ridiculous, all that pilot doing is trying to live to the next minute while losing a lot of energy in the process making him even more vulnerable for the next shot.

I'm not doubting the value of IRST systems, but the belief they are some panacea to easily defeat 5th gen LO aircraft is quite misplaced, they are only an advantage if they see the F-22/F-35 first.

Both of them are just trolling. They don't have a clue so they just make up crap hopping to catch you in something untrue. Then they will jump on that bone like a starving puppy.

 

[DrainBamage]

LRIP 10 contract prices are out. 90 Jet Breakout:

The LRIP 10 contract includes 55 jets for the U.S. Services and 35 jets for international partners and foreign military sales customers:

44 F-35A for the U.S. Air Force
9 F-35B for the U.S. Marine Corps
2 F-35C for the U.S. Navy
3 F-35B for UK
6 F-35A for Norway
8 F-35A for Australia
2 F-35A for Turkey
4 F-35A for Japan
6 F-35A for Israel
6 F-35A for South Korea

F-35 Costs: The Lot 10 contract represents a $728 million reduction in total price when compared to Lot 9. The approximate per variant unit prices, including jet, engine and fee are as follows:

F-35A: $94.6 million (7.3% reduction from Lot 9)
F-35B: $122.8 million (6.7% reduction from Lot 9)
F-35C $121.8 million (7.9% reduction from Lot 9)


Will this the first deliveries to Japan and Korea?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

In the F-22/35 combo, the F-22 will have their AESA Radar turned on. The other side can see them. But the F-35 will his turned off. The F-22 will launch and guide the missile so far in. When it gets too hot for the F-22, he shuts his radar down and he's gone. Meanwhile, the F-35 picks the missile up and uses passive systems to finish the job. At some point, the Missile will go active and no longer need the F-35 to vector it in. At that point, the black hat becomes aware of it's existence. At that point, the black hat goes into some severe manuavers to avoid the missile. But he won't be avoiding one. He may not be bagged but he's seriously out of position and loses any advantage he once had. His energy will be low. And guess what, at the proper time, the F-35 will show up (maybe) on the black hat's radar for a second or two. That's when he launches his own missiles at you. The Black Hat now has to avoid another missile with their energy down.

 

[DrainBamage]

Just saw a video of two pilots discussing them working together. The USMC pilot has flown both F-22 and F-35.



Interesting his comments on how the F-22 operates on the RF spectrum, but the F-35 took that to a much broader spectrum with sensory dominance of RF, electro-optical, and infrared.

 

[DrainBamage]

I believe as more and more of these planes are built, pilots from other countries fly them, and they participate in more exercises the evidence of how dominant F-35 performs will be too overwhelming for critics clinging to their battle cries of propaganda and PR stunt, or to keep pointing to spec sheets as evidence of shortcomings despite real world evidence to the contrary.

You'll see more and more 180 degree changes in their opinions, and they'll try their best to downplay their previous obviously foolish viewpoints. As in:

JSF as an interceptor going from bad to superlative

As I said before there are compromises that have been made to the basic airframe that penalize the performance of ALL models. It won't be a good interceptor because it's stealthiness has been compromised

The JSF should be a superlative interceptor. It's all the other jobs they claim it can do that I question. Get your facts straight.

JSF servicability going from 4 to comparable to others

Add to that the admitted non serviceability rate with any 5th Gen airframe and you will be lucky to get a flight of four airborne and on its way to a target out of an entire squadron. That's just reality.

The Marines have a F-35 detachment in Japan with a 70-80% serviceability rate.

 

[westwall]

Just saw a video of two pilots discussing them working together. The USMC pilot has flown both F-22 and F-35.



Interesting his comments on how the F-22 operates on the RF spectrum, but the F-35 took that to a much broader spectrum with sensory dominance of RF, electro-optical, and infrared.

That's not exactly surprising now, is it? F-22 development was halted to pour money into the JSF program.

 

[DrainBamage]

Not surprising that people making foolish statements about something they know nothing about are forced to change their views in light of overwhelming evidence?

Nope. It ain't.

 

[westwall]

Not surprising that people making foolish statements about something they know nothing about are forced to change their views in light of overwhelming evidence?

Nope. It ain't.

Yet again you lie about what I said. I have never, ever denied that the JSF would be a good interceptor. My only point is that trying to get it to do everything else is a list of compromises. It is you silly people who keep claiming it can do everything, and better than dedicated airframes. Which, is simply ludicrous.

 

[Geaux4it]

The F-35 is a POS

Kill it

-Geaux

 

[DrainBamage]

Yet again you lie about what I said. I have never, ever denied that the JSF would be a good interceptor. My only point is that trying to get it to do everything else is a list of compromises. It is you silly people who keep claiming it can do everything, and better than dedicated airframes. Which, is simply ludicrous.

Internet doesn't forget, you're just trying to backpedal from your foolishness. This quote is from you, right? How can it be a lie when your direct quote states that it won't be a good interceptor? Sorry dude, when you say stupid things playing armchair expert you've got to own them, so own this.

"As I said before there are compromises that have been made to the basic airframe that penalize the performance of ALL models. It won't be a good interceptor because it's stealthiness has been compromised. It won't be a good naval air fighter because it's range is compromised and to think it can replace the A-10 or even the AV-8B is a crock."
-Westwall

 

[DrainBamage]

We should look at that range thing next...

 

[westwall]

Yet again you lie about what I said. I have never, ever denied that the JSF would be a good interceptor. My only point is that trying to get it to do everything else is a list of compromises. It is you silly people who keep claiming it can do everything, and better than dedicated airframes. Which, is simply ludicrous.

Internet doesn't forget, you're just trying to backpedal from your foolishness. This quote is from you, right? How can it be a lie when your direct quote states that it won't be a good interceptor? Sorry dude, when you say stupid things playing armchair expert you've got to own them, so own this.

"As I said before there are compromises that have been made to the basic airframe that penalize the performance of ALL models. It won't be a good interceptor because it's stealthiness has been compromised. It won't be a good naval air fighter because it's range is compromised and to think it can replace the A-10 or even the AV-8B is a crock."
-Westwall

Put the stuff in front that was excised out, namely the degradation in stealth due to rain (because the radars can track the hole in the rain). That is specifically what i was referring to, and that was in regards to the B2. You lie like a pro.