F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Indofred]

The American people are so damn blind on this waste it is sickening.

This does seem to be the case.
Every 'in the know' story I've read on this aircraft suggests it's a disaster waiting to happen, and will put the pilots years behind potential enemy aircraft.
One note came to mind. I see the warthog is being scrapped as part of this project but I see no aircraft even close to the abilities it has in that role.
Aircraft in air to air combat must be upgraded to keep them useful, but in a situation where massive firepower and survivability are needed, the warthog has no equal.
The aircraft is as valid now as it was when the military realised to need for it.

 

[I amso IR]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

 

[idb]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

Try paragraphs - they're fun and easy!
It's really hard to read your stuff.

manonthestreet; a comparison.
F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700
Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+
Range 1600 nm/1800 nm
Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000
Crew 2/2.
There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE.

I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle.
Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay.
Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity.

My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check.

Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

 

[I amso IR]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

Try paragraphs - they're fun and easy!
It's really hard to read your stuff.

manonthestreet; a comparison.
F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700
Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+
Range 1600 nm/1800 nm
Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000
Crew 2/2.
There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE.

I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle.
Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay.
Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity.

My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check.

Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

Sorry bout that. Was not input in that format. Anyhow, simply read and you will get the idea. F14 vs F15. not even close. Also, attempt to go back a few posts and get up to date. As far as paragraphs go, the limits of this message board are lacking. Any how, read and you will understand. The F15 waxes the F14.

 

[I amso IR]

Once again, the F15n will hold the line with the Russian fighters. As in all circumstances, there will be bad results. However, the F15 will prevail if the pilots are properly trained. Ivan builds good stuff, the question is, are the pilots up to proving it. In the hands of American pilots the MIG29 would be devistating, The F15 in the hands of Americans is without doubt a very bad boy, You can talk F35 or whatever you want, but the F15 is one of a kind. It is not Gen 5, no question about that, but it is in the AO and it is deadly and worthy. Russia does not want a contest with the F15. That spells trouble. And do not forget, we are discussing the abilities of the so called F35. Once again, it is not primarily a fighter. It is a fighter destroyer from an stand off distance enshrouded by stealth. And it can fight if it has to. You can accept what Smiling Jack has to say if that is your desire. But the fact remains, the F15 is the backbone of our defense as the F29 is the Russian backbone of their defense. Both are highly capable and premium fighters.

 

[I amso IR]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

Try paragraphs - they're fun and easy!
It's really hard to read your stuff.

manonthestreet; a comparison.
F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700
Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+
Range 1600 nm/1800 nm
Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000
Crew 2/2.
There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE.

I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle.
Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay.
Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity.

My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check.

Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

This is for IBD, a gold member down New Zealand way, way down. If you are reading this post you have already seen how the post was originally written. So, your comment, while true, is in error. Anyhow, KIWI, nice talking to you. Have a nice summer.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Once again, the F15n will hold the line with the Russian fighters. As in all circumstances, there will be bad results. However, the F15 will prevail if the pilots are properly trained. Ivan builds good stuff, the question is, are the pilots up to proving it. In the hands of American pilots the MIG29 would be devistating, The F15 in the hands of Americans is without doubt a very bad boy, You can talk F35 or whatever you want, but the F15 is one of a kind. It is not Gen 5, no question about that, but it is in the AO and it is deadly and worthy. Russia does not want a contest with the F15. That spells trouble. And do not forget, we are discussing the abilities of the so called F35. Once again, it is not primarily a fighter. It is a fighter destroyer from an stand off distance enshrouded by stealth. And it can fight if it has to. You can accept what Smiling Jack has to say if that is your desire. But the fact remains, the F15 is the backbone of our defense as the F29 is the Russian backbone of their defense. Both are highly capable and premium fighters.

When the F-15A and the F-16A first came out, the F-14D was in service with just enough numbers to play the games against us. The F-15 and the F-16 still had a ways to go before they became world beaters. The F-14D was at the top of the heap. It took a F-15A with a death wish to keep the F-14 busy with radar meanwhile, the F-16 was trying to sneak in for a dogfight. The trick was for the F-14 to see the F-16 just before closure. The F-14 had a real nasty habit of making a turn tighter than anything on earth short of a sparrow by sweeping his wings forward. He had a ton of energy built up and would use that to then inside the F-16 for one turn. After that, if the F-16 was still around, the F-14 could no longer turn with the F-16.

The F-14 no longer got the wonderful upgrades it should have gotten, the airframes were long on the tooth, the cost of operation was way up there. Meanwhile, the F-15C and the F-16C got the good stuff. And the F-15 and the F-16 has been getting some really good stuff from that day on. At one time, those two were the best one two punch in the world. It's subjective that even today that they still are. But I find that things have changed.Not with the Russian and Chinese AC but with the ground SAs of all types and flavors.


We got the Radar and weapons first to blow the various Russian and Chinese birds. Now, the Russians have caught up in that arena. The time for either to have non stealth AC in the opening volleys is gone. We are still one up on them and will continue until about 2025.

So, do we need more F-22s, I would think so. But since we won't get them the F-35A/C is an evil necessity.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

189 of them should be able to do the job. As for nations without an air force, why in the world would we need Gen 5 aircraft at all. Yes I am able to read, pro as well con reports. In fact I read a report involving a Naval aviator and Air Force aviator who are 35 drivers. While they lament the software problems and delays, they present a favorable opinion of the aircraft. They feel it is up to the job that is required of it when finally the software is finalized. So honestly, I again say, when completed, the bird will perform as intended. It is not intended to mix it up in the WWll, Smiling Jack fashion, with scarf flying in the breeze. And with today's and tomorrow's smart missiles which are capable of tracking and locking on without human assistance things will be far more mundane. And as with the F22 which flew under the Iranian F14 which had no idea he was there, what can I say? You do not want the system and that is fine. I still say, wait for the end result. If it is not what it is designed to be, I will be among the first to say I screwed the pooch. As far as specs go, I read it is a 1200 mph craft. Service ceiling is thought to be 50,000 ft but not confirmed. It is capable of short super cruise bursts, perhaps 15 min worth. That is why I feel it was an error to give this plane the F prefix. Can it absorb punishment as the A10 does, no. But then on the other hand it is not designed to loiter and provide classic ground support. That is the reason the Army developed the attack helicopter, the AH1. Of course they did that long before the F35 was a gleam in it's daddy's eye. CAS has never been the strong suit of the Air Force. If it had been they would never have dumped the Skyraider or it's type. Fast movers do not do well at ground level, never have and never will. But that is a horse of another color. So lets see what this discussion has accomplished. Nothing is the correct response. Peace, Smilin Jack.

Actuallly no....AF has alrdy admitted they dont have near enough of them to babysit your piece of crap

When operating against the Chinese and Russians, the F-18 and the F-15 won't cut it close up. While the EF-18G will be in the fight from a very long range, the F-22 won't be enough to handle it. You keep forgetting that Army and Naval firepower will make a very hostile invoroment for any non stealth bird. The Naval and ground radar has to be taken out. And any of the 4th gen fighters will be committing suicide. If we can't have more F-22s then we need lots and lots of F-35 of the A and C models.

F-15 simply needs to be up engined to supercruise ability......Never liked F-18...but its brilliants like you who chose it over superTomcat...a proven winner......Stealth is alrdy going way of the dodo with radar advances...F-35 has taken so long to arrive its day is over

As for the F-18, anytime you take a bird and make it a carrier bird, the performance, range, top end, etc. will suffer. The original YF-17 was just as good as the F-16. but the F-16 made more sense the the AF since it used the engines used in the F-15. The YF-17 was redone for carrier duty and all of a sudden, it no longer had the better than 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. The same goes for the F-35. The A model will outperform the C model every time in payload, thrust to weight, etc.. The only reason the C has more range is that it carries a lot more gas.

The AF is using the EF-18G, teaming it up with the F-22 since the AF really doesn't have a wideband jammer of their own. The F-35A changes all that. And the Navy would love to get those EF-18Gs back since they don't have enough of them.

Not about linking with different Fighters and Bombers. No, the F-22 cannot link with either the EF-18G or the F-35. But the flying Command Posts and AWACs can. And the Command Posts link directly with the ships. Making the whole sky for about 400 miles or more usable for all Attack and Fighters.

Now, about attacking those US Carriers. You have to run the gambit of Aircraft then all those nasty little ships that accompany the carrier task force. Those nasty little boats are out to about 200 miles. You get picked up between 200 and 400 miles and have to run the gauntlet. Unless you are stealth, you are going to get picked up long before you come even within 200 miles of the Carrier. This includes drones, speed boats, aircraft and missiles.

The Chinese and the Russians make all kinds of brags. I don't buy any of them at this time.

 

[I amso IR]

189 of them should be able to do the job. As for nations without an air force, why in the world would we need Gen 5 aircraft at all. Yes I am able to read, pro as well con reports. In fact I read a report involving a Naval aviator and Air Force aviator who are 35 drivers. While they lament the software problems and delays, they present a favorable opinion of the aircraft. They feel it is up to the job that is required of it when finally the software is finalized. So honestly, I again say, when completed, the bird will perform as intended. It is not intended to mix it up in the WWll, Smiling Jack fashion, with scarf flying in the breeze. And with today's and tomorrow's smart missiles which are capable of tracking and locking on without human assistance things will be far more mundane. And as with the F22 which flew under the Iranian F14 which had no idea he was there, what can I say? You do not want the system and that is fine. I still say, wait for the end result. If it is not what it is designed to be, I will be among the first to say I screwed the pooch. As far as specs go, I read it is a 1200 mph craft. Service ceiling is thought to be 50,000 ft but not confirmed. It is capable of short super cruise bursts, perhaps 15 min worth. That is why I feel it was an error to give this plane the F prefix. Can it absorb punishment as the A10 does, no. But then on the other hand it is not designed to loiter and provide classic ground support. That is the reason the Army developed the attack helicopter, the AH1. Of course they did that long before the F35 was a gleam in it's daddy's eye. CAS has never been the strong suit of the Air Force. If it had been they would never have dumped the Skyraider or it's type. Fast movers do not do well at ground level, never have and never will. But that is a horse of another color. So lets see what this discussion has accomplished. Nothing is the correct response. Peace, Smilin Jack.

Actuallly no....AF has alrdy admitted they dont have near enough of them to babysit your piece of crap

When operating against the Chinese and Russians, the F-18 and the F-15 won't cut it close up. While the EF-18G will be in the fight from a very long range, the F-22 won't be enough to handle it. You keep forgetting that Army and Naval firepower will make a very hostile invoroment for any non stealth bird. The Naval and ground radar has to be taken out. And any of the 4th gen fighters will be committing suicide. If we can't have more F-22s then we need lots and lots of F-35 of the A and C models.

F-15 simply needs to be up engined to supercruise ability......Never liked F-18...but its brilliants like you who chose it over superTomcat...a proven winner......Stealth is alrdy going way of the dodo with radar advances...F-35 has taken so long to arrive its day is over

As for the F-18, anytime you take a bird and make it a carrier bird, the performance, range, top end, etc. will suffer. The original YF-17 was just as good as the F-16. but the F-16 made more sense the the AF since it used the engines used in the F-15. The YF-17 was redone for carrier duty and all of a sudden, it no longer had the better than 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. The same goes for the F-35. The A model will outperform the C model every time in payload, thrust to weight, etc.. The only reason the C has more range is that it carries a lot more gas.

The AF is using the EF-18G, teaming it up with the F-22 since the AF really doesn't have a wideband jammer of their own. The F-35A changes all that. And the Navy would love to get those EF-18Gs back since they don't have enough of them.

Not about linking with different Fighters and Bombers. No, the F-22 cannot link with either the EF-18G or the F-35. But the flying Command Posts and AWACs can. And the Command Posts link directly with the ships. Making the whole sky for about 400 miles or more usable for all Attack and Fighters.

Now, about attacking those US Carriers. You have to run the gambit of Aircraft then all those nasty little ships that accompany the carrier task force. Those nasty little boats are out to about 200 miles. You get picked up between 200 and 400 miles and have to run the gauntlet. Unless you are stealth, you are going to get picked up long before you come even within 200 miles of the Carrier. This includes drones, speed boats, aircraft and missiles.

The Chinese and the Russians make all kinds of brags. I don't buy any of them at this time.

Good day Daryl, I amso IR here. I enjoy reading your posts as every time I do I pick up on tidbits of info I was not aware of. I read on another source about the heat problem associated with supercruise the other day. That it is a challange is an understatement. Not being able to induct enough flow to cool the engine and the aircraft structure is without doubt a bad situation. The limitations on design which are associated with stealth seem to be a huge factor difficult to overcome. That lends, i think, in part at least, to the "manonthestreet" assertion in #348, that stealth
is becoming moot what with electronics advancements and again design factors. Super cruise it's self is not the problem as we are already there. Being able to design the aircraft to be stealthy is another matter. Can it be done, probably, but the time, cost and reliability are prohibitive. The simple fact that the 35C is burning and damaging the flight deck of carriers is an example. The fact that the airframes are damaged by the intense heat generated in flight is also telling. The fact that the engine is subject to ignite the the compartment on fire when preparing for takeoff is another. I have to think, while I like the 35 concept, perhaps three birds of one flavor is doable, it is one heck of a mouth full. Will it be accomplished, probably, but as already proven it won't be cheap. Considering the financial condition of Russia and China I don't see them be successful any time soon. Your estimate of 2025 in #447 sounds really optimistic to me. That is why I strongly support the F15 and it's variants at this time and see the MIG29 in the same light. No one country, including the US can stand this type of blood loss, in a monetary sense. Just thinkin on my part. Doable yes, but nothing to make a habit of. Perhaps we are simply trying to break the banks of our foe, again. I still like my idea of flooding the sky over these countries with cheap drones with signatures of other aircraft and letting them deplete their ADA and interceptors trying to clear them out. Then go in manned and finish the job.

 

[HenryBHough]

When the dust has settled I feel certain the U.S. military will say they love the examples they have had enough money to purchase.

Both of them.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

189 of them should be able to do the job. As for nations without an air force, why in the world would we need Gen 5 aircraft at all. Yes I am able to read, pro as well con reports. In fact I read a report involving a Naval aviator and Air Force aviator who are 35 drivers. While they lament the software problems and delays, they present a favorable opinion of the aircraft. They feel it is up to the job that is required of it when finally the software is finalized. So honestly, I again say, when completed, the bird will perform as intended. It is not intended to mix it up in the WWll, Smiling Jack fashion, with scarf flying in the breeze. And with today's and tomorrow's smart missiles which are capable of tracking and locking on without human assistance things will be far more mundane. And as with the F22 which flew under the Iranian F14 which had no idea he was there, what can I say? You do not want the system and that is fine. I still say, wait for the end result. If it is not what it is designed to be, I will be among the first to say I screwed the pooch. As far as specs go, I read it is a 1200 mph craft. Service ceiling is thought to be 50,000 ft but not confirmed. It is capable of short super cruise bursts, perhaps 15 min worth. That is why I feel it was an error to give this plane the F prefix. Can it absorb punishment as the A10 does, no. But then on the other hand it is not designed to loiter and provide classic ground support. That is the reason the Army developed the attack helicopter, the AH1. Of course they did that long before the F35 was a gleam in it's daddy's eye. CAS has never been the strong suit of the Air Force. If it had been they would never have dumped the Skyraider or it's type. Fast movers do not do well at ground level, never have and never will. But that is a horse of another color. So lets see what this discussion has accomplished. Nothing is the correct response. Peace, Smilin Jack.

Actuallly no....AF has alrdy admitted they dont have near enough of them to babysit your piece of crap

When operating against the Chinese and Russians, the F-18 and the F-15 won't cut it close up. While the EF-18G will be in the fight from a very long range, the F-22 won't be enough to handle it. You keep forgetting that Army and Naval firepower will make a very hostile invoroment for any non stealth bird. The Naval and ground radar has to be taken out. And any of the 4th gen fighters will be committing suicide. If we can't have more F-22s then we need lots and lots of F-35 of the A and C models.

F-15 simply needs to be up engined to supercruise ability......Never liked F-18...but its brilliants like you who chose it over superTomcat...a proven winner......Stealth is alrdy going way of the dodo with radar advances...F-35 has taken so long to arrive its day is over

As for the F-18, anytime you take a bird and make it a carrier bird, the performance, range, top end, etc. will suffer. The original YF-17 was just as good as the F-16. but the F-16 made more sense the the AF since it used the engines used in the F-15. The YF-17 was redone for carrier duty and all of a sudden, it no longer had the better than 1 to 1 thrust to weight ratio. The same goes for the F-35. The A model will outperform the C model every time in payload, thrust to weight, etc.. The only reason the C has more range is that it carries a lot more gas.

The AF is using the EF-18G, teaming it up with the F-22 since the AF really doesn't have a wideband jammer of their own. The F-35A changes all that. And the Navy would love to get those EF-18Gs back since they don't have enough of them.

Not about linking with different Fighters and Bombers. No, the F-22 cannot link with either the EF-18G or the F-35. But the flying Command Posts and AWACs can. And the Command Posts link directly with the ships. Making the whole sky for about 400 miles or more usable for all Attack and Fighters.

Now, about attacking those US Carriers. You have to run the gambit of Aircraft then all those nasty little ships that accompany the carrier task force. Those nasty little boats are out to about 200 miles. You get picked up between 200 and 400 miles and have to run the gauntlet. Unless you are stealth, you are going to get picked up long before you come even within 200 miles of the Carrier. This includes drones, speed boats, aircraft and missiles.

The Chinese and the Russians make all kinds of brags. I don't buy any of them at this time.

Good day Daryl, I amso IR here. I enjoy reading your posts as every time I do I pick up on tidbits of info I was not aware of. I read on another source about the heat problem associated with supercruise the other day. That it is a challange is an understatement. Not being able to induct enough flow to cool the engine and the aircraft structure is without doubt a bad situation. The limitations on design which are associated with stealth seem to be a huge factor difficult to overcome. That lends, i think, in part at least, to the "manonthestreet" assertion in #348, that stealth
is becoming moot what with electronics advancements and again design factors. Super cruise it's self is not the problem as we are already there. Being able to design the aircraft to be stealthy is another matter. Can it be done, probably, but the time, cost and reliability are prohibitive. The simple fact that the 35C is burning and damaging the flight deck of carriers is an example. The fact that the airframes are damaged by the intense heat generated in flight is also telling. The fact that the engine is subject to ignite the the compartment on fire when preparing for takeoff is another. I have to think, while I like the 35 concept, perhaps three birds of one flavor is doable, it is one heck of a mouth full. Will it be accomplished, probably, but as already proven it won't be cheap. Considering the financial condition of Russia and China I don't see them be successful any time soon. Your estimate of 2025 in #447 sounds really optimistic to me. That is why I strongly support the F15 and it's variants at this time and see the MIG29 in the same light. No one country, including the US can stand this type of blood loss, in a monetary sense. Just thinkin on my part. Doable yes, but nothing to make a habit of. Perhaps we are simply trying to break the banks of our foe, again. I still like my idea of flooding the sky over these countries with cheap drones with signatures of other aircraft and letting them deplete their ADA and interceptors trying to clear them out. Then go in manned and finish the job.

It took a bit to get me to accept the F-15 over the F-4. But it finally happened. So we are locked in our likes until those reasons are just blasted out of the sky. The F-15 certainly blasted my undying support of the F-4. But it took it until the early 80s to do it.

Just a quick correction. You stated the F-35C burns the deck. You are talking about the F-35B, not the C. Therein lies the problem. The worst of the lot (The B Model) is used as a comparison for the other two. The B is not a replacement for anything other than the AV-8B. The C model gets larger wings, carrier qualification and more gas. Otherwise, it and the A (AF Model) shares 70% of all parts. The B model is closer to 40%.

The problem with Unmanned is that it's going to be too easy to hijack it or at least break the link back to the trailer. Semi Autotomous is about as good as I care to take it. True Autonomity is way past anyones pay grade at this point. And I don't believe it's something you want flying around armed to the teeth.

The Manned Attack Bird is still the way to go. It doesn't have to be even in sight of the target it hits. But it can "Thread the Needle" past the radar sites and make a corridor where the F-15/16/18 can operate. Not all of the 4th gen fighters will be retired anytime soon. But we need something in numbers to counteract the nasties out there so they can be used.

 

[Manonthestreet]

and thats the old version......upgrade it to current specs our Allies are buying and its even more deadly......at what half cost of F-35 if not less

F-15SAs and F-15Ks cost about 120 million.

from Bogdan F-35 Costs Down Despite Worries

According to figures provided by Bogdan, the average cost-per-unit in low-rate initial production lots six, seven and eight, the last three lots on contract, have fallen like this:

• F-35A conventional takeoff and landing model: $117 million, $112 million, $108 million.
• F-35B "jump-jet" model: $145 million, $137 million, $134 million.
• F-35C carrier variant: $134 million, $130 million, $129 million.

Those figures Include engines, profit for contractors and adjusts for inflation.

According to New F-35 Prices A 95M B 102M C 116M Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary prices for the F_35A will be well under 100 million by 2019.

I'll be interested to hear you explain how a 120 million dollar F-15 costs half an F-35.

And you can add another 4 million for the SE version. And then you only get the radar reduction from the front and the sides. You are still lighting up the Radar from the rear. Plus, you are still lighting up the IR from all sides.

Case ya didnt know F-35 doesnt have all around stealth....ooops

 

[Manonthestreet]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

I never compared 14 to 15...it was 14 to 18 18 looks like crap stacked up to 14D and worse to Supercat

 

[Daryl Hunt]

and thats the old version......upgrade it to current specs our Allies are buying and its even more deadly......at what half cost of F-35 if not less

F-15SAs and F-15Ks cost about 120 million.

from Bogdan F-35 Costs Down Despite Worries

According to figures provided by Bogdan, the average cost-per-unit in low-rate initial production lots six, seven and eight, the last three lots on contract, have fallen like this:

• F-35A conventional takeoff and landing model: $117 million, $112 million, $108 million.
• F-35B "jump-jet" model: $145 million, $137 million, $134 million.
• F-35C carrier variant: $134 million, $130 million, $129 million.

Those figures Include engines, profit for contractors and adjusts for inflation.

According to New F-35 Prices A 95M B 102M C 116M Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary prices for the F_35A will be well under 100 million by 2019.

I'll be interested to hear you explain how a 120 million dollar F-15 costs half an F-35.

And you can add another 4 million for the SE version. And then you only get the radar reduction from the front and the sides. You are still lighting up the Radar from the rear. Plus, you are still lighting up the IR from all sides.

Case ya didnt know F-35 doesnt have all around stealth....ooops

And you know something the rest of us don't? Now, tell us more.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

I never compared 14 to 15...it was 14 to 18 18 looks like crap stacked up to 14D and worse to Supercat

Supercat was the F-14D. Not a lot of them were produced because the system was on it's way out. It just cost way more than the Navy had to spend. The F-18 was a budget reality, not the best at anything.

 

[Manonthestreet]

and thats the old version......upgrade it to current specs our Allies are buying and its even more deadly......at what half cost of F-35 if not less

F-15SAs and F-15Ks cost about 120 million.

from Bogdan F-35 Costs Down Despite Worries

According to figures provided by Bogdan, the average cost-per-unit in low-rate initial production lots six, seven and eight, the last three lots on contract, have fallen like this:

• F-35A conventional takeoff and landing model: $117 million, $112 million, $108 million.
• F-35B "jump-jet" model: $145 million, $137 million, $134 million.
• F-35C carrier variant: $134 million, $130 million, $129 million.

Those figures Include engines, profit for contractors and adjusts for inflation.

According to New F-35 Prices A 95M B 102M C 116M Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary prices for the F_35A will be well under 100 million by 2019.

I'll be interested to hear you explain how a 120 million dollar F-15 costs half an F-35.

And you can add another 4 million for the SE version. And then you only get the radar reduction from the front and the sides. You are still lighting up the Radar from the rear. Plus, you are still lighting up the IR from all sides.

Case ya didnt know F-35 doesnt have all around stealth....ooops

And you know something the rest of us don't? Now, tell us more.

Alrdy been posted multiple times.....read the 15 pages of links or goog it

 

[Manonthestreet]

manonthestreet; a comparison. F14BD / F15SE Thrust 54,000/58,000 Weight 43.600/31,700 Speed Mach 2+/Mach 2.5+
Svc Ceiling 50000+/60000+ Range 1600 nm/1800 nm Max Load 20,397 lbs / 23,000 Crew 2/2. There you go Buzz. The first number is the F14BD the second number is the F15SE. I admit the 14 was a terrific bird. You accuse me of dissing it and I have not done so. However, it cannot and never will be the equal of the Eagle. Secondly, I can read, much to your dismay. Third, try to act your age with grace and dignity. My point is the Eagle will carry us beyond today in tandum with the F22/F35 and will keep the MIG 29, which is the Russian threat for now, in check. Now I will ask you, Can you read or simply see red every time someone responds?

I never compared 14 to 15...it was 14 to 18 18 looks like crap stacked up to 14D and worse to Supercat

Supercat was the F-14D. Not a lot of them were produced because the system was on it's way out. It just cost way more than the Navy had to spend. The F-18 was a budget reality, not the best at anything.

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/top-gu I'mn-day-special-the-super-tomcat-that-was-never-bu-1575814142

 

[Manonthestreet]

Ooooooops again

 

[Daryl Hunt]

and thats the old version......upgrade it to current specs our Allies are buying and its even more deadly......at what half cost of F-35 if not less

F-15SAs and F-15Ks cost about 120 million.

from Bogdan F-35 Costs Down Despite Worries

According to figures provided by Bogdan, the average cost-per-unit in low-rate initial production lots six, seven and eight, the last three lots on contract, have fallen like this:

• F-35A conventional takeoff and landing model: $117 million, $112 million, $108 million.
• F-35B "jump-jet" model: $145 million, $137 million, $134 million.
• F-35C carrier variant: $134 million, $130 million, $129 million.

Those figures Include engines, profit for contractors and adjusts for inflation.

According to New F-35 Prices A 95M B 102M C 116M Breaking Defense - Defense industry news analysis and commentary prices for the F_35A will be well under 100 million by 2019.

I'll be interested to hear you explain how a 120 million dollar F-15 costs half an F-35.

And you can add another 4 million for the SE version. And then you only get the radar reduction from the front and the sides. You are still lighting up the Radar from the rear. Plus, you are still lighting up the IR from all sides.

Case ya didnt know F-35 doesnt have all around stealth....ooops

And you know something the rest of us don't? Now, tell us more.

Alrdy been posted multiple times.....read the 15 pages of links or goog it

There has been about 15 opinions posted. Now, get us facts. I am sure that you can come up with something. Opinions are like.......

 

[Manonthestreet]

Facts are alrdy in this thread....as stated ...not posting thngs over and over for dumbass who wont read or just asks same stupid question over and over