F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Bleipriester]

Looks like that Turkey is out of the F-35 program.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Looks like that Turkey is out of the F-35 program.

They wanted the S-400, they got them. Then they don't get the F-35. Simple as that. If you have both, you can figure out how to defeat the F-35 and that just won't do.

 

[rylah]

The game changer is the F-22, and the US won't sell it to anyone.
However with all the problems, this is Russian AA and F-35 in action...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The game changer is the F-22, and the US won't sell it to anyone.
However with all the problems, this is Russian AA and F-35 in action...

I remember that clip. But when the time line was checked, the Israeli Aircraft had long since left the area. It was a show of force only by the Syrians. They tried to make it look to their people that they were actually doing something.

 

[rylah]

The game changer is the F-22, and the US won't sell it to anyone.
However with all the problems, this is Russian AA and F-35 in action...

I remember that clip. But when the time line was checked, the Israeli Aircraft had long since left the area. It was a show of force only by the Syrians. They tried to make it look to their people that they were actually doing something.

What time line?
You see the attack in the background while the AA's hit the neighborhoods.
Let Syrians tell all about how hitting their own homes in Damascus with multiple rockets
is a way to look good.

 

[DrainBamage]

what have the Israelis learned

I would guess the Israelis have learned some unpleasant truth about it

You tell me what Israel has learned. From last week:

Israel Seeks New U.S. Military Aircraft
In June 2019, the Israel defense ministry issued an official request for information for the Boeing F-15X, and a price and availability (P&A) request for the Lockheed Martin F-35I. Israel already has 50 F-35Is on order and has had a long-standing intention to buy 25 more, but recent reports suggest that the Israel Air Force intends to buy 75 additional F-35Is

Just as Japan went and decided to buy 105 more F-35s after getting their hands on some from their original order of 42.

Once in a dogfight it has no way to exit until someone is dead or out of ammo because its too slow

This "too slow" stuff never fails to amuse, you still haven't responded to information hilighting the maximum combat load speed of various 4th gen aircraft and how they compare to the mach 1.6 an F-35 can reach. Have you ever seen an F-15/F-16/F-18 flying in combat without external fuel tanks? I haven't either.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

what have the Israelis learned

I would guess the Israelis have learned some unpleasant truth about it

You tell me what Israel has learned. From last week:

Israel Seeks New U.S. Military Aircraft
In June 2019, the Israel defense ministry issued an official request for information for the Boeing F-15X, and a price and availability (P&A) request for the Lockheed Martin F-35I. Israel already has 50 F-35Is on order and has had a long-standing intention to buy 25 more, but recent reports suggest that the Israel Air Force intends to buy 75 additional F-35Is

Just as Japan went and decided to buy 105 more F-35s after getting their hands on some from their original order of 42.

Once in a dogfight it has no way to exit until someone is dead or out of ammo because its too slow

This "too slow" stuff never fails to amuse, you still haven't responded to information hilighting the maximum combat load speed of various 4th gen aircraft and how they compare to the mach 1.6 an F-35 can reach. Have you ever seen an F-15/F-16/F-18 flying in combat without external fuel tanks? I haven't either.

In the real world, if one bird disengages, the fight is over. Since both birds will have to drop their tanks to fight, the fight will consume a large amount of gas. Bingo is going to happen in a matter of minutes on both sides. There will be no running down the other side if they are slower. If you try that with a conventional fighter, you are going to be walking home whether you got the kill or not. The only fighter that might be able to get away with that would be the F-15 or the F-22. The F-15 can do Mach 1.8 in full battle trim and the F-22 can do over Mach 2 easily. All others will have to just go home. Chances are, even the F-15 and the F-22 will just go home as well.

Flying is so much more fun than walking to a fighter pilot.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Rumor Poland will dump F-35 ….too expensive....unreliable and wont make half its service life

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Rumor Poland will dump F-35 ….too expensive....unreliable and wont make half its service life

Hey, can I start a rumor too? How about Romania is trying to purchase more Czeck ME-109s again since their Mig-21s are crashing.

 

[DrainBamage]

Rumor Poland will dump F-35 ….too expensive....unreliable and wont make half its service life

F-35 has been winning every fighter competition it's entered, and I bet that drives you crazy.

Singapore now ordering 12, and Greece has been making inquiries. I remember the good ole days from years back when you were claiming international partners were all dropping out and program was in a death spiral. Idiot.

 

[DrainBamage]

I saw some blurbs from Norwegian an Dutch pilots who have been taking F-35 through it's paces, reminded me of all the complaining manonthestreet has been nonsensically bleating on about the speed and range of F-35.


De 5 største mytene om F-35

"With internal weapons and full fuel tanks, the F-35 will be able to fly at greater speed, maneuver more powerfully and fly farther than almost any other fighter aircraft with similar equipment available on the market today."

"This also applies to so-called cut-off missions in the northern areas. First, the F-35 will be able to fly longer and at the same speed as today's F-16 on such missions thanks to large internal fuel tanks and the ability to carry weapons internally."


Roer om bij de luchtmacht

"Like the F-16, the F-35 can deliver excellent close air support. In bad weather, however, it can also detect ground targets through the clouds. The F-16 can't do that. Thanks to the good aerodynamic properties and the extra amount of internal fuel, the Lightning II can also remain "on station" for longer, "he summarizes effortlessly."

(on sound versus existing F-16s) "The F-35 is faster at altitude and can fly on for longer, so that the sound fades away faster and fewer take-offs and landings are required."



And finally from HOC testimony from the neverending Canada clusterfuck:

Evidence - NDDN (40-3) - No. 24 - House of Commons of Canada

Our current aircraft has 16,000 pounds of fuel with three external fuel tanks. The conventional take-off and landing variant of the F-35 with internal fuel only is 18,500 pounds, so it has significantly more fuel just internally. It will have significantly more range and we can also put external tanks on the F-35. It will have significantly more range than we currently have, which is an incredibly important element when we look at flying across the far north of Canada.

 

[DrainBamage]

And Manonthestreet's "wisdom" on the altitude of F-35:

no it means f-35 being low altitude sled will need to shoot up shortening its alrdy outranged missles

Moderne luftkamp; The Right Stuff, Top Gun eller noe helt annet? - Kampflybloggen

"With the F-35 we get more of this, compared to what we are used to today. Discovering how much more was a positive surprise for me. In full war equipment, the F-35 effortlessly operates 10,000 to 15,000 feet higher than our F-16 manages, without the use of an afterburner. The speed of the cruise is simply 50 to 80 knots higher. In the F-16 , I have to use the afterburner and take off speed before a missile shot. F-35 cruiser both faster and higher. That's why I'm ready to shoot far at any time."

 

[Silver Cat]

Looks like that Turkey is out of the F-35 program.

They wanted the S-400, they got them. Then they don't get the F-35. Simple as that. If you have both, you can figure out how to defeat the F-35 and that just won't do.

Can't they figure out how to defeat S-400? Or is it absolutely impossible?

 

[DrainBamage]

Looks like that Turkey is out of the F-35 program.

They wanted the S-400, they got them. Then they don't get the F-35. Simple as that. If you have both, you can figure out how to defeat the F-35 and that just won't do.

Can't they figure out how to defeat S-400? Or is it absolutely impossible?

Why would it be impossible? Anything can be defeated.

 

[DrainBamage]

Rumor Poland will dump F-35 ….too expensive....unreliable and wont make half its service life

Has anything you've come up with in this thread turned out to be true? Like ever? Even once?

From yesterday:

WARSAW, Poland — Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Blaszczak said Jan. 22 that next week Poland “will finalize the deal on the purchase of F-35” Lightning II fighter jets. The negotiations to buy 32 aircraft from the U.S. “are almost complete” and “the first units will be ready [for delivery] in 2024,” Blaszczak told local broadcaster Polish Radio. In what could be the largest defense contract to be signed in Central-Eastern Europe this year, Poland is set to become the first user of Lockheed Martin’s fifth-generation fighter jets in the region, adding the aircraft to its fleet of 48 F-16s.

*Negotiations ‘almost complete’ on Poland’s buy of 32 F-35s, defense minister says

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Rumor Poland will dump F-35 ….too expensive....unreliable and wont make half its service life

Has anything you've come up with in this thread turned out to be true? Like ever? Even once?

From yesterday:

WARSAW, Poland — Polish Defence Minister Mariusz Blaszczak said Jan. 22 that next week Poland “will finalize the deal on the purchase of F-35” Lightning II fighter jets. The negotiations to buy 32 aircraft from the U.S. “are almost complete” and “the first units will be ready [for delivery] in 2024,” Blaszczak told local broadcaster Polish Radio. In what could be the largest defense contract to be signed in Central-Eastern Europe this year, Poland is set to become the first user of Lockheed Martin’s fifth-generation fighter jets in the region, adding the aircraft to its fleet of 48 F-16s.

*Negotiations ‘almost complete’ on Poland’s buy of 32 F-35s, defense minister says

If man was meant to fly he would have been born with a jet engine up his ass. Eat more Burritos.

 

[TDontTouchMyCigars]

I don't know about that.

I do know that Israel bought dozens of those and took every detail out and put an Israel tech in it

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I don't know about that.

I do know that Israel bought dozens of those and took every detail out and put an Israel tech in it

They didn't take every detail out. When the US exports something high tech, some of the tech is left out and each country has to role their own or hire someone to do it for them. The real "Sooper Secrit" stuff isn't allowed out to other countries. Israel is just very good at putting their own back in.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-35’s Gun That Can’t Shoot Straight Adds to Its Roster of Flaws

 

[Daryl Hunt]

F-35’s Gun That Can’t Shoot Straight Adds to Its Roster of Flaws

And as late as 1980 the F-15A had been in service for about 6 years and was still experiencing cracked airframes near the tail section. If all that was wrong with the F-15A was the gun mounts then we would have been ecstatic. Such was not the case. If we used the F-15A model with all it's flaws and didn't fix them, we would have been better off scrapping the damned thing. It's one thing to fly it at Ogden with experienced pilots but another to put it in the hands of young pilots in the field. And the F-15E/EX is probably one of the most rounded and deadly fighters today short of the F-35A and the F-22. So, with these problems in the field, I guess we need to just scrap the plane and move onto something else. Wait, there isn't anything else.