F-22 or F-35? you decide!!

i didn't hear anything about the 22 being sold... got a source for that?

archive U.S. considers sale of F-22 to Israel. minus the software of course. and Japan is also putting in bids. hell everybody wants it.

[URL="http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/06/06/US-considers-sale-of-F-22-to-Israel/UPI-80111212797128/"]link[/URL]

Gates’ Defense cuts include F-22, CSAR-X
[URL="http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/04/airforce_defense_budget_040609w/"]link[/URL]

Lockheed Martin has to get their money back some how. so sell it
 
considers sales...but they didn't do it....The US is still bitter from giving Israel patriot misslie tech and them selling it off to the Chinese...I knew they made the cuts...but they aren't selling it off
 
considers sales...but they didn't do it....The US is still bitter from giving Israel patriot misslie tech and them selling it off to the Chinese...I knew they made the cuts...but they aren't selling it off

they will. what's the alternative??? let em rot or sell em for billions????
 
i think you got it wrong...from my udnerstanding the cuts just means we aren't going to build anymore. We are still going to service and maintain the ones we have I believe we only have like 180 of them the air force originally wanted 500 or so.
 
i think you got it wrong...from my udnerstanding the cuts just means we aren't going to build anymore. We are still going to service and maintain the ones we have I believe we only have like 180 of them the air force originally wanted 500 or so.

the AF get the F-35 to

F-35 Lightning II - Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) - Air Force Technology

The F-35 Lightning II joint strike fighter (JSF), is being developed by Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company for the US Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps and the UK Royal Navy.
 
First of all there is a Federal Law that prohibts the sale of the F-22 to foreign nations and smiply put until such time as that laws is lifted to even suggest that a nation will be able to purchase a stripped down version of the F-22 is a little premature. The other issue you have to deal with is there is no export version of the F-22 that has been developed as of yet so then you have development costs to contend with that raise the overall cost per aircraft that most of these nations do not want to contend with when your looking at an aircraft that is perhaps 200 million dollars a copy. Japan has already seen this to be a big hurdle and has started to develop it's own version of the F-22 and will most likely purchase the F-15X or the F-35 which will most likely be the F-15 as it is more a pure air superiority fighter and the F-35 has many issues to contend with in that envelope when it cannot even defeat current generation Russian fighters in computer sims. In fact one sim by the USAF went so poorly that the RAAF observers claimed the F-35's were clubbed like baby seal's by the Russian fighters. While the F-35 is a fine aricraft for it's intended role it is not an aircraft to fill every role that is required in the air envelope and to assume as much is treading on dangerous ground. In fact the USAF has called for an additional 60 F-22's to fulfill the mission requirements and Gates has decided to end production. This is nothing new for DoD as they tend to not listen to the warfighter when it comes to what they need and more to congressional winds. Want an example. just look at the C-17, the USAF has for the last 5 years said thank you but we have enough C-17's , however in the same Defense bill that cut F-22 production they added an addintional 8 C-17's and more C130J which the Air Force has also said they do not need. What you see now is the same kind of thinking that brought about the early version of the F-4 Phantom that cost so many aviators their lives , you need only look at the thinking that brought about that aircraft to understand the F-35. Again while the F-35 is a good aricraft for it's intended role, it is the result of DoD mentality of "fighting wars on the cheap" when good planning, and good poilcy would go a long way in saving money rather than limiting the warfighters capability. Anyone who thinks for a moment this actually saved any money by cutting this aircraft is sadly mistaken and should do a little more research, because what they will find is the 95,000 people that work on the F-22 in 45 states will have a big negative impact on the economy and they do NOT easily tranistion into the F-35. Further, money saved on the F-22 was eaten up almost instantly on purchases for aircraft the USAF said point blank it does not want or need and it will be further eroded with the cost to shut down production on the F-22. Next up the 17 year long purchase of the Air Force Tanker. ...

A U.S. air-warfare simulation pitting F-35 Joint Strike Fighters versus the latest Russian Su-35 heavy fighters resulted in a clear victory … for the Russians. "The JSF had been clubbed like baby seals by the simulated Sukhois," one Australian opposition politician said, quoting a source close to the simulation.
Joint Strike Fighters ‘Clubbed’ in Computer War Game | Danger Room | Wired.com

The F-22 Raptor is an American air superiority fighter that uses stealth technology. It is considered by the United States Air Force as a critical component of the United States Strike Force. In addition, the F-22 has multiple capabilities that include ground atack, electronics warfare, and signal intelligence roles.


It is claimed by many to be the world's most effective air superiority fighter and it cannot be matched by any known or projected fighter aircraft. It is also said to be "most outstanding fighter plane ever built", as claimed by Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, Chief of the Australian Defence Force in 2004.

Unlike many other tactical fighters, the opportunity for export is currently non-existent because the export sale of the F-22 is barred by federal law. There was a time in the 1970s when the then-new F-16 was similarly restricted. However, regardless of restrictions, very few allies would even be considered for export sale because the F-22 is such a sensitive and expensive system.
Aviation: Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor

Lockheed Martin's chief financial officer Bruce Tanner, when asked by analysts about the prospects for overseas sales, was pessimistic. "I'm not particularly positive on the ability for us to make [an F-22 export deal] happen in the next few years," he said. Given that the Senate has voted to end funding for the Raptor, it appears as though it is literally the end of the line.

It should not be a surprise. Given the amount of opposition to exports and the fact that it would have cost up to $250 million to develop an exportable version of the stealth fighter, Japan would have had to move mountains to get the aircraft and received better value elsewhere.

The 30 August general elections in Japan look like they may result in a new government. Let's just hope that they will be able to move beyond the F-22 and get on with the much-needed F-X competition as soon as they can.

Japan nears the end of its F-22 courtship - Asian Skies
 
that deal was done in the early 80's...also what you fail to realize is those f 16's are not the ones we use in our military.

We sold them the F 16 A's and B's

Ours obviously over time have been extremly modified and severely outperform those that venezuela has.
 
My uncle, who was a key figure, scientist and engineer, behind the development of the F-22 and F-35, would easily side with the F-22. Unless you have an ape flying an F-22, there is no way an F-35 is going to win against an F-22.

In every real-action simulated test done between the F-22 and any other aircraft, only ONCE was there a lock ever performed on the F-22 and that was by an F-18 model. It was an illegal maneuver, because where had the shots been fired, the shrapnel from an F-22 exploding would've brought down the F-18.

Likewise, the F-35 has nothing near the BVR capability that the F-22, EF-2000, Su-35, and several other of the latest Sukhoi/MiG models can provide. Not even mentioning that the F-35 is incapable of supercruise (ability to fly at supersonic speeds without use of the afterburners), as well only ploys a dummie stealth akin to the earliest generation of Stealth aircrafts.
 
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yeah yeah but the F-23 was by far the better aircraft they scraped due to political pressure on where the f-22's would be built. Airforce has a different story but the meat of the truth is money played a factor as with politics and who would get a piece of the pie.

The F-35 is supposed to fill airforce slots next year, very very funny they dumped the f-15's they had on that hope now there is all this anticipation on this aircraft I won't hold my breath but I know it won't be up and running next year, look at the F-22 for example push back, push back supposed to be at Tyndall in 98 oops did not get em till the end of 02 and into 03. on top of that the F-35 pilots need training to even be combat worthy, sims only do so much. 2.5 years till they start getting em, 5 years maybe six till they are combat capable. if they pass all the tests they are still running on em.

this new administration had better look at history of such things before they cut too much. I do not have faith though, Politicians looking at historic content to avoid blunders thats too much to ask for. democrat/ republican hell I would vote for a historian anyday someone with a brain and no special interests.
 
im curious then where did Chavez get his F-16's from????

Venezuela Threatens to Sell F-16 Fleet to Iran archive

Even before the United States announced the ban on arms sales Monday, Washington had stopped selling Venezuela sensitive upgrades for the F-16s.
FOXNews.com - Venezuela Threatens to Sell F-16 Fleet to Iran - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Good with an aging weapons system at least we will know their capabilites and therefore able to defeat them. If we know what they have we can defeat it, especially if it is one of our airframes. I would rather they have them then a airframe we do not know the capabilites of. As if we couldn't defeat them anyway at least it will make it easier. we sold Saudi F-15's and pakistan F-16's along with India. Maybe they will buy parts from us to fix em when they break. I am not worried. not to mention Isreal both F-15's and F-16's
 

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